The Daily Quest: Children's Week
by Robin Torres 
May 3rd 2010 at 9:00PM
It's holiday time again in World of Warcraft and this week it's all about orphans. We are introducing them to dragons, taking them into battlegrounds and abandoning them on zeppelin platforms in droves. The blogging community has a few things to say about them too.
- Cynwise's Battlefield Manual has a comprehensive guide to the School of Hard Knocks.
- Cynwise also suggests A Modest Proposal, which I highly recommend.
- A Healadin's Tear has some tips for the much maligned battleground achievement as well in For the Children!
- Big Bear Butt chronicles his time with his orphans in Limping into Children's Week.
- Gauss ponders The Orphan's Future in Gauss' Adventures in World of Warcraft.
Filed under: The Daily Quest
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Austin May 3rd 2010 9:10PM
School of Hard Knocks isn't a bad achievement. Only thing is, it should reward battleground wins rather than, say, the first one in AB to cap the opening flag. Mages (Blink) and Rogues (Sprint) will always win, and it takes no skill or effort on their part.
Kaylin May 3rd 2010 9:17PM
Agreed. If even if they just changed it to capture a flag in WSG, kill enemy players attacking a node you control in AB, or things that would advance a game rather than secondary objectives, it would make the process at least more reasonable. HKs count for the whole team, and the point of wsg is to cap flags, not /emote hugs to draenei with 60k hp in hopes they will drop the flag for you and /cuddle for the next 20 minutes.
elstor May 3rd 2010 9:29PM
I don't see why it has to be solitary, either. When 10 people rush into IWB or IBT and only one can cap the flag, why doesn't Blizzard let all 10 get credit? It wouldnt be that hard to do something where everyone in the tower gets the credit.
Glaras May 3rd 2010 11:50PM
@Austin: Yes, it is a bad achievement, and I don't care how you want to sugar-coat that. So far, I've burned almost 4 hours in it tonight, and all I have to show for it is a lot of grief, stress, and a burning hatred for BGs. Not to mention the griefing my own faction inflicted on us, literally keeping the flag away from us in EotS.
Orrdeath May 4th 2010 1:58AM
I think the achiv is awesome. I have never mowed down so many under gear ppl in eye of the storm in my life as I did today. O wait I supose this is why all you raiders hate pvp. We will call it even for all the lfg polution in trade chat!
Keeva May 3rd 2010 9:49PM
School of Hard Knocks is the one achievement that will go unfinished in my log, and I'll never ride on a violet drake, as a matter of principle.
I don't like PvP achievements, but I do them, usually. But this one is just a horrible series of bottlenecks, collusion, and standing in the flag room, passing and repassing the flag. It's a bit of a joke, really.
I think it's nice that people are creating guides to help others do the achievements. But whenever I see those guides I can't help feeling that we're settling for bad design, and putting up with it for a week by explaining the best way to go about dealing with it, despite loathing it. It might seem melodramatic, but I just refuse to take part in it.
(It's bad enough at xmas time when feral druids have to respec, else they're doomed to run around as useless elves, punching things to death or tossing weak moonfires or lifeblooms around to try to grab credit.)
It's a terrible design for an achievement. There are plenty of other ways to encorporate your orphan into BGs without making them horrible bottlenecks that turn games on their heads and go against the spirit of the game. Win X games of WSG, kill Y players in AV, etc. Participate in X number of BGs (of any combination of the 4). Get X healing or Y damage in a single battleground. Win WSG 3-0. Over the course of the week, be on teams that defend a total of 20 AB nodes. Or recycle some of the existing achievements, things like defend your faction leader in AV by killing 50 invaders, or finish in under a certain amount of time, etc. There are so many options that don't involve horrible bottlenecks and having to "be nice" to the opposite faction so that everyone "can get it over and done with."
It should encourage players to play the battleground as it's meant to be played. I'm not a PvPer, but I can say with honesty that I would actually ENJOY doing the BG achievements if they were created in a way that encouraged the games to be played properly.
Blizzard won't change the achievement, I know. I'm not trying to be a one-man picket line. And I know it's wholly my choice to miss out on the achievement and the meta if I want to make a futile little stand against it. But I just refuse to do it on principle, because I think it's a terrible achievement that encourages people to ruin battlegrounds - even if "it's only for a week".
Blizzard could do so much better. The PvP achievements could actually be FUN for everyone, rather than an annoyance for PvPers and a "let's just get it over and done with ASAP" chore for everyone else.
TR May 4th 2010 6:19AM
I totally agree with you. Blizzard dropped the ball (flag?) and could have done a /much/ better job (and should for next year) on this one. Don't remove it - retool it so it involves aspects involving the /spirit/ of a battleground instead of one thing that rarely more than 2 or 3 people in the group are able to successfully do. Cap the flag, capture a base, or defend a base in EotS, perhaps? And at the very least lose all achievement-related points if you desert or go AFK. Sorry, you may not have to kill, cap, etc. but at least be part of the group for the whole damn battleground!
While I did successfully get For the Children in the 24 hours, and I'm only a Flame Warden away from my Violet Proto-Drake, I'm a PvE player. I'm not into PvP, and have no interest. Not because there may or may not be something wrong with PvP (I don't really have the experience to judge), but because the achievements Blizzard's created to introduce me to PvP were awful; they made no sense even in the context of the battlegrounds. School of Hard Knocks is the perfect example of what they need to change.
Possum May 4th 2010 7:41AM
I agree totally. These are terrible achievements. Terrible for the people who are trying to get them and terrible for the people who just want to play BGs. I don't tend to pay much attention to the holidays so it took a few games of "WTF is everybody doing? Have they gone mad??" before I noticed all the bloody orphans running around D: and it clicked.
Alternator May 4th 2010 8:16AM
My thoughts as well.
It simply isn't fun, which I think breaks a tennant of Blizzards??
From my perspective, this is either a very badly designed Achieve, or Blizzard intends for it to irritate and put players off BG's... You just need to look at the comments people are making about this one along with the guides to subvert the play mechanic of these mini games.
clundgren May 4th 2010 12:52PM
I enjoy School of Hard Knocks. I enjoyed doing it, and I enjoy the chaos it brings to BGs. I do a LOT of pvp; obviously, I enjoy it. But it can get to be a bit of "same old, same old" strategy-wise. This achievement breaks up the monotony.
Also, it actually improves AV, which has degenerated into a pathetic zerge-fest. For this achievement, folks will actually try to take and hold towers. What a concept!
As for forcing non-pvpers to pvp...good. "It's a Long, Strange Trip," by its very nature, should be for players who are willing try the breadth of what the game has to offer. I had to learn to bake a stupid cake for it.
I like all aspects of this game, but I find that there is a certain intolerance that comes from specific factions in the community, specifically hardcore PvE players, and hardcore arena players. Not all, but a vocal minority, are very derogatory about the aspects of the game they don't enjoy.
A "badge of honour" for refusing to try something? In a video game? Okay.
hyp_kitsune May 3rd 2010 9:52PM
Apparently, School of hard knocks had become easy due to some mutual 'pacts' during BGs..
Here's what I've observed from all of them:
in AB no killing involved, the nodes are all being assaulted and defended repeatedly until one side wins
in WSG, each side sends a representative who gets the flag and drops them while the others just pick up the flag and the process repeats until everyone gets the achieve and ends it.
in EotS, I observed that it's more competitive, one side gets their own bases and just camp the flag, while everyone takes turns in capturing the flag.
in AV, both sides rush to opposing towers and the with the sheer number of people there is definitely some people who kill just for fun but mostly camp the towers and assault/defend towers (like AB) until battle ends.
Well, by doing this the achievement seems easier and I've heard people say they feel 'cheated' by having this achievement handed to them in a silver platter. But most just wouldn't want to take a chance and wait another year if they don't get it easily.
Glaras May 3rd 2010 11:53PM
Apparently you've not been anywhere near the BGs I've been in. They are NOT easy, people are NOT helping each other.
someone473 May 4th 2010 2:33AM
People in the Retaliation Battle Group have been helping each other with the towers in AV.
splodesondeath May 3rd 2010 10:03PM
I had amazing luck with these achievements, and if you're extra nice, it works well for everyone.
WSG: There was a kindhearted gnome, picking up and dropping the flag in our flag room.
AV: Another wonderful soul, this time a holy pally, capped and let the Horde recap the ICB over and over.
AB: Everyone crowded around the BS to get their flag.
EotS: This one is the one where I didn't see people helping each other out. Ideally, your group will be pro enough to capture two or three towers and cap flags to victory. The Alliance guy carrying the flag died, so I managed to cap it.
The fastest way to do EotS would undoubtedly be making a hardcore PuG group and facerolling the other team.
Necro May 3rd 2010 10:15PM
I really can't understand why people are so irate about School of Hard Knocks achievement. I did this last year and really, this was not an issue at all. As I recall, I did all for requirements in less then 3 hours.
Best suggestion I can come up for you is to do this during off-peak hours. If you try for this at say 7pm server time, sure it won't be easy.
Best time I can offer is try this 4-5 hours before the servers go for the weekly maintenance tonight. By the time its 2 hours to maintenance, the player base drops quite a bit.
The only 'issue' this year would be that you can only queue for 2 BGs at a time and the queues are taking much longer then last year. Give yourself a cushion of a few days to do this and you'll be fine.
Hope this helps.
Raeenith May 4th 2010 2:35AM
Just because you and some other people did it in 3 hours or less doesn't mean other people are having issues. A lot of people don't PVP and a lot of the other players are griefing these people or anyone else doing the achievement.
Doing the achievement at odd hours of the night/morning isn't an option for everyone. Not everyone is on the same timezone as their server and not everyone wants to be up at 3 am, especially if they have work/school that morning.
Your advice was good, but there are exceptions. This achievement is an annoyance for those who don't like battlegrounds and I can understand their pain. This is coming from someone who for the most part loves battlegrounds and can't deal with raiding.
Keeva May 3rd 2010 10:21PM
Most people who are annoyed at the achievement don't have an issue with the difficulty in getting it done. It's probably even easier this year, with more people realising they just need to throw games in order to get the achievement over and done with.
Generally the issue people have is that it is poorly designed and basically makes the majority of BG games unplayable (in the traditional sense) for the week. A PvP achievement should encourage people to PvP, not have horde and alliance players standing in a huddle, dutifully handing a flag back and forth.
It's the principle, not the difficulty.
vinniedcleaner May 3rd 2010 10:29PM
It's funny how when people pissed and moaned about the scourge invasion, it was changed, yet when there is this much outcry against an achievement, Blizzard suddenly becomes silent.
yarf May 4th 2010 12:52PM
It's an achievement. The scourge event was NOT an achievement.
Achievement, by definition, means you got off your lazy butt and did something.
People QQing about this is like a 500 pound guy going "I need a wheelchair!" and then feeling great when the motor gets him to the pantry for more twinkies.
No, it'd be an achievement if he walked to the pantry and threw away the twinkies.
People think they deserve to have everything just handed to them and they shouldn't have to do a dang thing for it.
Results:
Every player can get top-tier gear because "ZOMG I can't play very long and I don't know people and I'm not in a hard-core guild, I want my T10 too!!!!!!" and Blizzard saying "OK. You can have it. But if you want SLIGHTLY BETTER gear you need to raid for the tokens."
I remember when I started, seeing someone in T6 meant something. It was something to strive for... and I felt like I achieved something worthwhile when I got my first T6 drop. I felt GREAT because I worked my butt off for it.
School of Hard Knocks? HEAVEN FORBID you have to set foot into a battleground a few times and not sit idle and farm honor.
O. M. G.
QQ MOAR.
-.-
Turtell May 4th 2010 9:11AM
I love you, yarf.