The Art of War(craft): Of honor and conquest

Two weeks ago, Blizzard unveiled their plan in Cataclysm to overhaul the badge system of acquiring gear and instead move it to a point system similar to the one used in arenas and battlegrounds. This change, which applies to both PvE and PvP gear, is significant and goes a long way into validating the PvP method of gear acquisition. Not long ago, Blizzard also adapted the system used by battlegrounds to create the dungeon finder, another example of how systems used in the PvP aspect of the game have improved PvE. It should be clear by now that PvP is an inextricably linked aspect of the World of Warcraft and has only served to improve the overall game experience. Even if you don't PvP, the game you enjoy has been influenced by all the things Blizzard has learned from their experience in designing for PvP.
Throughout the history of the game, the developers have tried hard to balance the rewards granted by the PvP and PvE aspects. In vanilla WoW, PvP and PvE item sets were completely different in both design and acquisition. In Burning Crusade, Blizzard stumbled somewhat by making PvP item sets that were mere recolors of PvE gear and were arguably a step behind in terms of acquisition -- the newest arena sets were knockoffs of older raid sets. Wrath of the Lich King provided what has been the best approach thus far by making gear acquisition in both PvP and PvE as parallel as possible. The return to an iterative design philosophy for PvP gear was laudable, as was the expanded method of acquiring gear. Ultimately, though, it might have been overwhelming to have the same gear accessible through too many avenues -- honor, arena points, honor and arena points, badges, boss drops -- which is why the proposed streamlining through a point system makes perfect sense.
One of the most glaring flaws in the current PvP gear system is access to weapons. Currently, access to PvP weapons is restricted to arena players, and the very best weapons have a prohibitive rating. This means that players who don't venture in arenas -- let alone succeed in them -- have no choice but to obtain weapons through other means. This usually entails raiding, farming dungeons or, at worst, crafting. On the other hand, players who don't PvP can obtain every single piece of equipment in the PvE environment, even lower grade weapons. That all changes in Cataclysm, when weapons will be obtainable even without arena ratings. The actual blue post states:
Cataclysm Badge and PvP Point ChangesPvP
* Honor Points -- Low-tier, easier-to-get PVP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, but no cap to how quickly you can earn them. Earned from most PvP activities.
* Conquest Points -- High-tier, harder-to-get PvP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, and a cap to how many you can earn per week. Earned from winning Rated Battlegrounds or Arenas. (currently called Arena Points)
* Honor Points -- Low-tier, easier-to-get PVP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, but no cap to how quickly you can earn them. Earned from most PvP activities.
* Conquest Points -- High-tier, harder-to-get PvP points. There will be a maximum cap to how many you can own, and a cap to how many you can earn per week. Earned from winning Rated Battlegrounds or Arenas. (currently called Arena Points)
Right now, PvP players have honor points and arena points. Honor is accumulated through the battlegrounds and world PvP and can be used to purchase gear from previous arena seasons. It's basically outdated PvP gear -- item sets available purely for honor are two seasons behind (or items that have gone "on sale," according to Blizzard). Battleground play fell out of favor when arenas were introduced in Burning Crusade. Blizzard has mentioned that they're bringing the focus back to battlegrounds and these moves will now bring them up to par with arena play.
Honor points are likely to function in the same manner as they do now, obtainable through casual battleground play, honorable kills and quests in world PvP zones. You can grind for these as hard as you want, but there'll be a limit similar to the 75,000 honor cap currently in the game. Conquest points function similar to the way arena points work in the game now and can be earned from rated battlegrounds and arena matches. According to developers, the points will be awarded in real time, so there's instant gratification as opposed to the old method of having to wait for every maintenance period. The game has been moving in that direction for some time now; even honor used to be awarded on a weekly basis in the beginning.
My guess would be that honor points can be used to purchase trinkets and other non-set items such as bracers or capes (and later, older PvP item sets), very similar to the current system. Conquest points are reserved for set items and weapons, similar to how arena points are now used to purchase the current arena season's gear. The main difference is that none of these items will require a personal or team rating to purchase, which levels the playing field in a big way.
BornakkWe're removing personal rating requirements on almost all items; they're definitely removed for weapons. We might offer a few items to the absolute best players based on personal rating, largely as cosmetic or 'bragging rights' type items.
This is a dynamic change that's certain to be as divisive as the move towards more accessible raids as Wrath progressed. In the long run, it can only be good for the game, as gear no longer becomes a differentiating factor in PvP encounters. If all players have access to the same gear, it will come down to a matter of skill. Good players will continue to shine and bad players will continue to suck. The level playing field only makes for more interesting and balanced battles. It's a daring move and something the game has needed for a long time. The only difference will be the rate at which players can acquire gear.
Access to PvP weapons, even lower-tier ones, is sorely needed, and its omission from the current system diminishes the PvP experience for a lot of people. Currently, PvP weapons are only available during the current season for arena points and require personal and team ratings. When the season ends, these weapons cease to become available through any means. The system demands that players participate in arenas and perform reasonably well in order to obtain weapons. In Cataclysm, hardcore or highly skilled PvP players will still have access to special (if cosmetic) gear. Stats won't matter -- players at high levels of play should arguably welcome better competition.
It's great news, but Blizzard isn't stopping there. They're further blurring the lines between PvE and PvP gear by allowing some form of point exchange. Bornakk writes:
BornakkWe do plan to have a way to convert Honor points (PvP) into Hero points (PvE), and vice versa, at a loss. The conversions will be possible, but it won't be a 1:1 rate, and you'll have fewer points after the conversion process. We won't allow the higher tiers to be exchanged for each other, however.
That's huge. This impacts introductory play for those interested in trying out one or the aspect of the game. A player focused on PvE who suddenly wants to do some PvP typically needs to grind out battlegrounds and arenas in order to be geared for PvP. Any player will tell you that this can be a painful process and can make the experience frustrating for beginning players. Under the new system in Cataclysm, players can grind dungeons and raids and opt to convert leftover hero points into honor and purchase PvP gear without ever having stepped into a battleground. This means that players who will PvP for the first time actually have the option of gearing up first, ensuring that they'll have the proper gear.
This system actually exists in the game now as older arena item sets are available from vendors in exchange for badges and emblems obtained through dungeons, but a point conversion system allows greater freedom in purchases. Whatever will be available for honor in Cataclysm can be purchased, not just old item sets. Conversely, there will finally be a way for PvP enthusiasts to get starter raid gear. In the uncommon situations where players level almost exclusively through PvP, the conversion system allows these players to obtain PvE items and avoid total ridicule under the new GearScore paradigm.
I've always been of the opinion that the PvP gear system is superior to the drops in raids. Purchasing gear with points eliminated the random element from gearing up and allowed players to plan their upgrade path better. Some would argue that it takes some fun out of it, but I've always liked the idea of earning one's gear through hard work instead of luck. To a degree, raids have been moving in that direction throughout Wrath with the token system, and it would seem that in Cataclysm, the PvE gear system will mirror the way it's been done for PvP for a long time.
The honor and conquest (or hero and valor) point system is an extremely positive step towards bringing both the PvE and PvP aspects of the game closer together. There will be less of a disparity between the two as far as gear is concerned. As has been done in Wrath, new PvP seasons will likely coincide with new raid releases, allowing PvP and PvE gear sets to keep abreast of each other.
Raid bosses are still going to drop random loot, so I'm not certain how this will mesh with the PvE point system. The likely scenario is that raid bosses and vendors will have separate loot available, allowing players to work on their gear progression through hero and valor points while maintaining some thrill and rounding out item slots with raid drops. Interestingly, the developers also mentioned off-hand during BlizzCon that the battlegrounds will have a similar random drop at the end of a match. While no details have been released, it's interesting to speculate on what loot will be available through that system. If that plan pushes through, it will be one of the few examples where a PvE game system has crept into PvP.
In a loot-driven environment, the means by which players acquire gear is immensely important. With a point system, players can already look forward to certain items, plan their purchases, as well as figure out how much currency they need to grind. PvE players who have never dabbled in PvP will benefit from an efficient and practical loot system. It will be awesome. You're welcome.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, PvP, The Art of War(craft) (PvP), Cataclysm






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
TinyLittleRobot May 7th 2010 3:12PM
Can't wait. I've been primarily a PVE player who's been looking to get into PVP. It's been more than a little frustrating to say the least. I'm also really looking forward to rated battlegrounds and more of an emphasis on those as opposed to arenas.
miker May 7th 2010 3:38PM
Don't you mean the new Battleground tool used the concept of the Looking for Dungeon system? Looking for Dungeon Tool definitely hit before the new BG tool, which is barely a couple of months old. Or do you mean the cross-realm matching? That would make more sense if that is what you meant, and not the random BG tool that was just integrated recently.
Duulket May 7th 2010 4:01PM
He is talking about the BG interface that lets you choose which battleground to enter without having to go to that BG's battlemaster or portal. Not the random finder.
Zanathos May 8th 2010 12:36AM
Not to mention the cross-realm matchmaking
Hendrata May 7th 2010 3:59PM
Allow me to ask a very basic question: why do the developers insist on bosses dropping random loot? I know that this has been the model in the past X years of MMO history, but doesn't mean it's the best one.
Why, for example, don't they make it that the boss drops an item that, upon a turn in, will grant the players with a significant amount of Valor points? For example if a kill awards 200 points to everyone in the raid, then this item awards 3000 points to whoever turns it in. Maybe even drop multiple of those. We're already doing it with the whole Crusader Trophy, or even class-specific tokens.
Or why don't they just get rid of loot altogether and bump the valor point award to, say, 500 points per kill.
Or have raid quests that say: kill Lord Marrowgar 10 times, and you'll be awarded with 15000 valor points. It's more predictable to gear up this way.
clundgren May 7th 2010 4:15PM
I think your last sentence is exactly why I like the random system. I want an element of unpredictability. It adds excitement to the kill, and keeps us coming back. Sometimes it determines which boss or instance we choose. It keeps me doing Trial of the Grand Crusader so that I can finally win the damned trinket!
The badge system already adds enough homogeneity to the loot. I want some surprises, too!
Boobah May 7th 2010 4:53PM
Gearing up is supposed to be random; badges in PvE were added so that even if nothing you wanted dropped you didn't completely waste your time. Badge gear (at least until Tier 9) was supposed to supplement drops, not the core you filled around; tier tokens were as much about keeping the number of drops down to a reasonable number as well as making it more likely that tier drops were actually going to be useful to somebody.
Since tier 9 that has admittedly changed, with tier pieces coming primarily from badges and full sets available by badges alone, which means the designers can assume everybody has a full set of tier (if you don't it's because you've got better, not because you had bad luck with drops.)
Baba May 7th 2010 4:35PM
Not to mention it completely destroys the possibility of gearing alts quickly to a competent level
Matthew May 7th 2010 5:33PM
Hi,
We can look to experimental psychology and the 'fundamentals of learning' a la BF Skinner to answer this.
There are 4 kinds of reward systems: variable and fixed / ratio and interval.
Variable Ratio rewards are more enticing. This is like a slot machine. You pull it a few times, nothing. THEN, bam!!! This is the kind that induces the most consistent behavior. It is why Las Vegas has nice carpets and offers free drinks.
Fixed ratio: (every 1-2 pulls you get something) is dryer, and leads to predictability, and less attention on the aspect on hand. An example of this might be the tokens you get from doing a heroic.
There are also variable and fixed *interval* rewards, but that is a timing issue. For example . .. fixed interval timing = defending a node in Arathi for x time gives you Y honor. Its boring. its dependable. And if you're on my BG, no one does it (alas).
Soooooooooo random drops = variable and keep you coming back for more and more and more.
And more.'
-Your Friendly Neighborhood Resto Druid.
PS If you like this kind of stuff, take an intro psychology class, or one that is called 'cognitive science' or something. it's pretty cool.
Hendrata May 7th 2010 5:37PM
Thanks everyone. Now I see why they adopted this model, it's not just legacy, but because that's what keeps us playing (and paying).
Zanathos May 8th 2010 12:42AM
Not disagreeing with the (fantastic) psych summary, but random loot also causes the process of getting all the loot from an instance take longer, and also keeps interest longer that way.
Ragen May 8th 2010 6:31AM
@Matthew
Trust me, short of some of the really new hotels, the carpets in Vegas are not pretty. However, the drinks do flow freely. Subsidized drinks + Penny slots = Win.
On the topic, without that random chance you would find yourself becoming bored. There has to be some sort of luck involved in everything you do (also know as RNG). It's what makes things interesting.
Vesserion May 7th 2010 3:53PM
The 'near' complete removal of personal rating requirements is a bad decision by Blizz, and I disagree with the writer's opinion that "[i]n the long run, it can only be good for the game. . . ".
PVP is ultra-competitive, and high level play deserves to be rewarded with more that just quicker access to the top gear.
There is a big difference between giving casuals/PVP beginners access to starter gear that isn't complete garbage and giving every PVP enthusiast the best gear there is.
Vess
Hendrata May 7th 2010 4:04PM
I agree. I think the compromise here is to allow 2 levels of weapons: the lower level ones that you can buy without any rating restriction, and the higher level ones where you need like 2200 rating or something.
The problem with the current system is that there's NO weapon if your rating is not up to par. NONE, NADA, ZILCH. It's not because the best weapons require ridiculous rating. I think the best weapons SHOULD require high ratings, just as the best weapons in game drop from heroic 25 man Lich King.
Brownb May 7th 2010 4:12PM
You're going down Vess. I'll see you in AV, and finally have the resillence to live through you're initial barrage. Seriously though, why should only the top arena people have access to the strogest gear. It's not like other people aren't putting in the work for it too. The current system is broken, to the point where battlegrounds serve no purpose towards getting gear. Go into a raid in PVP gear, and you will still do decent damage and live a bit longer than others raiding with you. Go into an arena in PVE gear and you will be dead before you get out of the stun lock. This new system will hopefully bring more people to PVP, which in turn should create a more thriving, enjoyable season for all. If you are better at the end, you'll have your tabard, title, and pet to prove it
slish2512007 May 7th 2010 4:10PM
being "ultra competitive" is one thing but when you roflstomp everyone because of gear differences then it really isn't competitive is it? with the gear differences being nullified it will be about talent.
or are you scared?
Vesserion May 7th 2010 4:37PM
I play a Disc Priest boy, I am certainly not scared of PVP gear parity, or of some newb pestering me in AV. The top PVP players should have exclusive access intra-season to the best gear because they have earned it.
If we apply your reasoning to PVE, then Naxx should drop 1-2 pieces of ilevel 264 gear at the end of each wing. Your work gets rewarded with the top PVE gear, just at a slower rate than the top raiders, who get the gear faster by raiding ICC. That seems pretty absurd to me, but I bet you think it's a great idea.
I'll look for you on the field of battle.
Vess
Possum May 7th 2010 8:11PM
I don't understand what difference it makes to you Vesserion. If, as you say you're superior in skill then it will show in the outcome of the fight, better gear isn't going to give them that much of an advantage over skill.
It serves no purpose to you that other people not get gear except to make you feel like you're better than them and you're still going to get a mount or pet or tabard or whatever to drape over your epeen.
Ragen May 8th 2010 6:45AM
@Vess
I can understand where your coming from, but I wouldn't worry.
In order to get Conquest points, you have to Arena or RBG (see what I did there? =P). Which means the ultra rare competitive items will still be out of reach for those who aren't winning enough. You will still get your stuff way before someone who sprinkles PvP between hard modes, regardless of a rating requirement.
"Exclusive" is now reserved for titles, mounts, and achievements. Everything else, including gear, is fair game to whoever puts in the time. Why do you think there is a stacking buff in ICC if not for this very purpose? Gear is not your "uber" factor any longer.
Also, your reasoning is flawed as well: You can run Naxx to get ICC geared nowadays, simply by badges (hell, you can just run randoms for 6 hours and still be decent). Regardless, Triumph Badges != Conquest Points. The correct comparison would be Triumph Badges = Honor Points. Which is something you shouldn't worry about.
If your still worried about it though; I'll see if I can't come up with a few more reasons to help relieve you of your worry. =P
Jay May 8th 2010 6:57AM
Vess, you're combining two questions that don't need to be merged:
1. Should skilled people who win more matches be rewarded?
2. Should a handicap be given to those more skilled, less skilled, or neither?
Most people would probably say "yes" to question 1. Whether that reward should be "more powerful gear" is a different question entirely - question 2.
I doubt many people would answer that one with "the more skilled should get a handicap".
I'd argue that the fairest option is that no-one should get a handicap from better gear. I'd argue that only because the other two options are worse.
a) "You're already way better than most people you compete against, so we'll give you stronger gear so you win even easier"
b) "You suck at pvp, so we'll give you stronger gear to make it easier - please don't try to think of ways to rort this"
c) "Let's keep things based on skill, not gear, by making all gear equal."
None are good, but possibly (c) is least bad.
Give the better players something else to recognise it. Titles, tabards, vanity pets, uber-player-only fighting areas, etc etc. But not gear that gives them an extra advantage against those skilled.