Arcane Brilliance: I hope for an icy apocalypse

So, I don't know if you saw this, but I found it a little depressing. It's a collection of DPS data from the current endgame of WoW, Icecrown Citadel 25-man. And while fire and arcane mages appear to be right up there in the mix, frost is not. Instead, they're relegated to the same marginal, fringe PvE status that other under-represented specs enjoy, like subtlety rogues, or beastmaster hunters. It seems that not only were the few frost mages whose data made its way into those World of Logs parses doing some pretty woeful DPS, but so few of them were actually going into Icecrown that the data we do have is rendered completely unreliable. Maybe they weren't all that bad? It's tough to tell when there were sometimes less than 50 frost mage results. Even low-representation specs like arms warriors had thousands.
This, my friends, is unacceptable.
Frost mages, while kings of the PvP hill, have long been the redheaded stepchildren of mage specs when it comes to PvE content. Still, they've seen multiple recent changes to their spec that have promised to narrow the gap, and to a large extent, those changes have made something of a difference. Frost isn't by any means up to the same same level as arcane and fire yet, but in terms of raw DPS output, the gulf is narrowing.
Sadly, it seems nobody has noticed. Now, I'm not blaming frost mages. I expect that a large and unsavory part of the problem is not frost mages failing to go to Icecrown or failing to perform well when they do go, but is instead a failure of Icecrown groups to allow frost mages to go. The stigma against frost is ancient, its taint deep. I have all but given up on this changing during this expansion.
But I do expect it to change. Part of my hope stems from simple, unflagging enthusiasm for the spec. I freely admit that. I love frost, and want to see it succeed in PvE. But another, larger part, comes from cautious optimism about the direction Frost appears to be taking in the next expansion.
Let's put the negativity aside and focus instead on the potentially bright future that lies ahead of those of us who like to create warlocksicles. If you've never had one, they smell terrible, but taste like triumph.
Frost mage mastery
The single biggest indicator of the direction each spec seems to be headed in Cataclysm--at least from the information that we've been given thus far--is that spec's mastery bonus. The mastery stat is purported to be an overarching bonus awarded to each spec for every talent point spent in their chosen tree, and placed on many pieces of gear that are desirable to the spec. Basically, as you place your talent points and gear up your frost mage, your mastery stat should also be increasing.
Mastery will grant three distinct bonuses. Two of these bonuses will be flat statistical increases, but the third will be a unique bonus property, tailored to the spec.
- Spell damage
- Crit damage bonus
When I go to sleep, I usually dream of one of three things: A second season of Firefly, an Xbox Live Arcade version of Herzog Zwei that's playable online, and a Deep Freeze crit that does somewhere in the neighborhood of 50k damage. I used to think that none of those things were actually possible, but now I'm beginning to think that one actually might (well ... maybe two, if the whole "Joss Whedon tied up in my basement" thing works out).
- Deathfrost
BashiokDeathfrost: Casting Frostbolt places a buff on the mage that increases the damage for all frost, fire, and arcane spells. The only damage spell that won't be affected by this buff is Frostbolt.
This intrigues the crap out of me. The frost mage PvE rotation currently consists of Frostbolt spam with a Deep Freeze inserted in whenever that spell is off cooldown. What this bonus seems to do, essentially, is provide an incentive to use other spells. Any other spells, really. My hope is that this will make the frost rotation far more interesting, providing a number of other valid spellcasting choices.
Now, I have many questions about Deathfrost, and in the bulletted list that follows, I will attempt to chronicle those questions in a haphazard and scattershot manner.
- How big will the buff be? For this to be any fun at all, the buff must be significant enough that alternative spells to Frostbolt become attractive enough that using them feels like a bonus, and not just a very slight improvement to another Frostbolt cast.
- Will multiple spells be rendered viable parts of the rotation with this buff? Or will we simply be adding Frostfire Bolt, or Fireball, or whatever spell offers the next best bang for our DPS buck?
- Any chance the buff will stack in some fashion?
- Will this buff be enough that Ice Lance finally cracks a PvE spell rotation in some fashion?
- How will Deathfrost scale as gear improves? Will the damage simply increase by X amount as your mastery increases by X amount?
- Will we ever find out what the deal was with Walt and or baby Aaron? Why were they both so special? Why'd we spend like a season and a half dealing with how important those two were (for crap's sake, the twist at the end of the first season finale was all about how much the Others wanted Walt)? Why was it such a big deal that Aaron not be "raised by another?" Those aren't "minor mysteries, guys. You made a big damn deal out of both of those plot points over the course of multiple episodes, and if you don't revisit them in some fashion over the course of the final three episodes, I swear to God I will come to your houses in Hollywood or wherever it is that you live, and I will pee on the hillside above until I trigger a mudslide. Don't test me. I'm an angry nerd with an internet blog. I will ruin you.
- I'm just kidding, Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse, I love you. I didn't mean any of that. Please don't block my emails.
- But seriously, though: Walt and Aaron. I don't need much. Just have Hurley see Walt in the jungle carrying Aaron or something, and have him say something expository, like "we are the second coming of Jacob, being held in reserve for Lost: the Next Generation, coming in 2012 to ABC. Also, Vincent the dog is the secret last candidate, and he rules the island now from his black throne of blood and skulls." It'll take two seconds. Then you can move on to all the other nonsense you seem obsessed with teasing out, like who Jack's stupid alternate reality wife is (spoiler: It's totally going to be Bai Ling.)
My great hope for Deathfrost is that it will do two things:
- It will increase frost's overall DPS by a significant margin. I want that buff to be large enough that casting a Frosfire Bolt under the buff is a large damage boost over simply continuing to spam Frostbolts.
- It will bring some vastly-needed interactivity and decision-making to the spec. I'd like to see some viable situational rotations, like a Frostbolt/Ice Lance one for times when mobility is important. I want several spells to move up into prominence within the frost rotation, not just one.
Filed under: Mage, Analysis / Opinion, (Mage) Arcane Brilliance
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 5)
Tooay May 8th 2010 11:29PM
I have an easier time kiting blood beasts with Arcane. If you want to do any good damage as Frost, you'll have to glyph Frostbolt and you won't have most of the talents improving your snares, so you end up using cone of cold and frost nova, both close-range spells available to any specs.
Arcane? Just a talent point gives you Slow, a pretty damn reliable snare with regular spell range.
Gothia May 9th 2010 3:45AM
Frost is not good for PvE? Probably a higher percentage of us rolled frost to level up 1-80 so how could that statement be true. Arcane and Fire are perfect for Wrath which relies so much on high burst damage causing Frost's sustained damage debuffs to be less appreciated. Lets not kid anyone there is no choices of what spec you raid in if you want a raid spot.
Here is hoping that Frost shines in Cataclysm.
Beli May 9th 2010 10:15AM
- First, having to balance a spec against both PvE and PvP has got to be incredibly hard. Trading off survivability for damage in PvP makes end game PvE uses for a spec less desirable. Blizz just needs to recognize this and declare frost a PvP tree.
- Second, the second mastery bonus is great for PvP. That 50k Deep Freeze crit you're dreaming of is just the thing you need to kill most people instantly. For PvE, it's a straight dps increase, but then again they all are...
- Third, i've been in raids with frost mages. Even when their gear score is equal to mine (and i know, gear score isn't everything), they do significantly lower dps (i'm arcane...). This is for one of two reasons - either frost really does suck in PvE that badly, or all the good mages have already switched away from frost and they just suck that badly.
Torr May 9th 2010 8:06PM
@Beli
while I do admit that blizz should declare some specs only viable in PvP*coughunholydkscough*, it wouldnt be in keeping with their "bring the player not the class or spec" ideal.
A simple fix for the problem is make EACH and EVERY spell/ability/talent have TWO separate effects, one in PvE and one in PvP, and balance them accordingly.
Example: Frostbolt Rank 1: does 10-15 damage, 1.5 second cast time
Effect 1(PvE): Causes your target to be slowed by 50% or if said target is already under a frostbolt slow debuff, boosts frostbolts damage 200%.
Effect 2(PvP): applies a stacking debuff causing your target to be slowed by 30%, stacks 4 times, and at 4 stacks freezes the target in place for 6 seconds.
Example: Fireball Rank1: does 12-18 damage, 1.5 second cast time
Effect 1(PvE): Applies a stacking Damage Over Time debuff dealing 10% of the initial damage over 4 seconds, stacks 10 times.
Effect 2(PvP): Has a chance equal to your critical hit chance of knocking the enemy back 10 yards.
Example: Arcane Missiles Rank 1: does 20-25 damage per hit, 3 seconds channel time, 3 missiles
Effect 1(PvE): Missile Crits increase the length of channel time by 1 second and number of Missiles fired by 1, up to 5 additional missiles.
Effect 2(PvP): Scoring two Missile crit in a row causes you to fire a similar spell, dealing equal damage to both the crits combined and slowing your target 50%.
See where I am going with this? true those are just examples, but if blizz DID redesign spells like that, many of the balancing problems they have would pretty much vanish.
Turtlehead May 12th 2010 7:49PM
"I have an easier time kiting blood beasts with Arcane. If you want to do any good damage as Frost, you'll have to glyph Frostbolt and you won't have most of the talents improving your snares, so you end up using cone of cold and frost nova"
Agreed, gotta glyph Frostbolt to even pretend to DPS so...you'd mostly use brain freeze procs. Save one when beasts are coming soon, use that for initial aggro. Spec some increased snare duration and the procs should be enough to keep snare up. If not switch to frostfire casts as woven in. Deep Freeze if things are going very badly.
It's a lot of work when as you said could just Slow and blast them quickly to get back to the boss. Bonus, it means not groaning when a frozen beast attacks your elemental.
PvtDeth May 8th 2010 10:30PM
Frost is definitely fun to raid as and it's nice to be doing something a little different from everyone else. (I raid fire.) I have a hard time getting on board with the "every spec is viable" philosophy, though.
The devs have stated they want every spec to be playable in both PvE and PvP, this obviously includes frost raiding, sub rogues and whatever. I'm not really clear on why this should be a goal anyone is reaching for, though. The biggest thing holding this game back is the constant need to rebalance numbers to make sure no one build gets too far ahead of everyone else (or too far behind.) Stuff like this just further complicates an already nearly impossible situation.
If you want to raid frost, that's fine, you should be able to. If you want to PvP as fire, go ahead. I think the burden for taking these options needs to rest on the player, though. Obviously frost and other nontraditional raid specs should be doing at least viable damage, I just don't expect to be buffed and buffed just because I chose a spec that's less than ideal.
DKs tanking in any tree is going away because it was an awkward and difficult model from the beginning. I think the trees of dps classes should follow the same trend. There has to be some significant trade-off to making one choice over another or else there's no real point in having different trees.
Bronwyn May 9th 2010 12:28AM
The problem is that to be "viable" in the eyes of the players, the spec has to have a pretty close margin of damage, otherwise even people who play very well with the "bad" spec get passed over because raids almost always want more and more damage.
Possum May 8th 2010 10:35PM
Ah frost. How to make you pve viable without making you a god in pvp? As for Blizzard's statement about wanting every spec to be playable in pve, they don't really seem to have delivered on this for wrath. BM hunters, frost mages, shadow priests, sub rogues, arms warriors. They're all still screwed >.<
Bronwyn May 9th 2010 12:36AM
Yeah, and I saw a post by them stating that "viable" really doesn't mean much since they said themselves they can't be expected to bring the specs close enough to satisfy people.
Right now I could be totally viable in ICC 25 with my current gear, in frost. But I don't run in frost because, frankly, it's not worth fighting with the raid leader to let me come as frost.
Toranja May 9th 2010 12:41AM
what? SPriests are awesome, look at the DPS analysis!
I feel bad for elemental shammies... They have a cool gameplay, but still have a bad dps...
nerdrage May 8th 2010 10:43PM
think the author is slightly confused about mastery. all 3 stats for a spec are not affected by the mastery stat, only the last one (deathfrost in this case). Spell dmg and spell crit dmg will increase based on the amount of talent points spent into the tree where it then reaches a static cap.
the mastery stat however will increase the last one (deathfrost) to a bigger percentage.
im trying to point out that mastery will -not- increase spell dmg and spell crit dmg, which seemed to be what the article was implying
Iirdan May 8th 2010 11:01PM
Actually, yeah, it will. The Mastery stat affects the bonuses you get from all three.
Iirdan May 8th 2010 11:03PM
Strike that; misread the mastery post. Downrate.
Evadora May 8th 2010 10:50PM
I realize that Blizzard will likely never do so, but I think that Frost should be made a Tanking Spec.
No really.
I understand Mages are intended to be "Pure" DPS however it would be refreshing if Blizzard stepped out of the box. I really don't think it would break game either. All they would have to do is retool the Ice Barrier talent branches to include + Aggro, two or three melee abilities (we can already use swords) and maybe a spell that creates ice weapons.
How cool would it be if we could summon an icy shield and sword? I'd prefer it to the pet honestly.
Other games have tackled this idea: Dragon Age Origins and the Arcane Warrior come to mind. In any case my Roommate and I are working on a Mage tanking project. We don't expect much success beyond the confines of normal mode 5 man dungeons but we've developed certain specs and gearing that work okay with a Discipline Heals.
By okay I mean it's hella fun just not as "ideal" as a traditional tank, there's a bit more down time.
Anyway keep up the great work Christian. I love your column! And you can believe I'm the Mage that people regret being crappy to when they see me in LFD. I've been working towards changing player's perspectives of frost Mages.
radix May 9th 2010 2:22PM
I would love to see a 'tank' that doesn't follow the usual "have lots of armor/hitpoints and aggro abilities" mold. Something based on crowd control, or physical placement, preventing damage to the party.
daences May 8th 2010 10:52PM
As if I didn't already love this column, you had to throw in a few Lost references.... you had me at 'Walt'!
I've been leveling a frost mage, in every random dungeon group I am top dps... I'm guessing that will change come 80 but it has been an awesome ride.
alpha5099 May 8th 2010 10:57PM
I really don't understand why people are still wondering about Walt. Walt isn't important anymore. Get over it. He is special. He seems to have psychic powers that manifest in several ways. He knows things he shouldn't, he appears place he shouldn't, he once made a bird fly into a window with his mind. The others were intrigued and interested in these powers. They saw him as a valuable asset, potentially even a front-runner among the Candidates. However, they soon realized that his powers were too much for them to control. They became scared of him, and realizing he was a dead-end, they let Walt and Michael leave.
Pretty much everything I wrote up there (with the exception of my Candidate conjecture) comes directly from the show. You have to read between the lines a little bit, yes, but Walt has been addressed. There aren't actually any lingering questions. The show could not accommodate the child actor, as he was obviously growing at a much faster rate than the show's timeline, so they wrote him out.
Here's how the fabled Walt explanation would go: Sitting around a camp fire, Hurley decides to strike up some conversation with Ben. "So, uh, dude, what was the deal with Walt? Like ... why'd you guys take him?" "Walt? Oh, he had some psychic potential, we were interested. But he didn't suit our purposes, and his powers were frankly a little scary, *chuckle* so, ya know, we just let him and Michael go." "... Oh. I guess I already knew that." "Yep."
As for Aaron, I don't think you should be expecting any grand revelations on that front either. He might still be a significant factor, especially as his Flashsideways Timeline counterpart's going to be born soon. Personally, my theory is that Aaron really isn't special. He couldn't be "raised by another," not because something bad would happen to him if that happened, but because something bad would happen to Claire. That's what we're seeing right now. Claire needs Aaron, and it's because Kate took him that she's flown off the deep end. Aaron and Claire need to be together, not so she can keep Aaron safe, but so he can keep Claire sane. Personal theory though.
Iirdan May 8th 2010 11:15PM
My theory on Aaron is that he is the island's tool to bring the Oceanic 6 back.
Aaron's sole purpose in the show has been to get Claire onto the island, and then get Kate back. Ji Yeon works the same way - she is there to reconcile Sun and Jin and solve their marital issues while still in the womb, and then force Sun to leave the island quickly and without Jin - creating the separation that was crucial to the return of Sun to the island.
Both Aaron and Ji Yeon only serve as motivation for people to return to the island. After all, all five of the survivors who left had to return at once - Ji Yeon and Aaron allowed that to happen.
lsprof4 May 9th 2010 10:51PM
It's good to know at least one other Lost fan out there cares about finding out what the heck was going on with Aaron on this show. I doubt there will be any revelation about Aaron before the end and that really frustrates me since I've been waiting for some explanation of the reaction of the psychic/fortune teller that Claire went to see when she was pregnant (soooo many years ago) that made it seem like Aaron was going to be the anti-christ or something. They must have had some reason for writing that scene, why won't they tell us what it was?
Bvannas May 8th 2010 10:57PM
As I understood the mastery system, the first two bonuses were for putting points into gear, and therefore made up for boring % dmg and the one crit damage talent in the tree, whereas deathfrost would benefit from the mastery rating on gear. So as you gear up, the deathfrost bonus becomes larger (I would suspect a Spellpower bonus for non-frostbolts).
Sounds cool, might even be worth throwing in arcane missiles when they proc as well.
On a side note, when we raid frost, we know it isnt as good, so we don't often use it at its full potential, furthur weakening its DPS (Ie, not using flasks - only use it on certain fights ect.)