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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsDrama Mamas: Make it work
by Robin Torres 
May 14th 2010 at 9:00AM
Wives get a bad reputation. We are often portrayed more like evil stepmothers than the helpmates and lovers that we would like to be seen as. Some of us deserve it, from time to time. But often we are just trying to be the voice of responsibility in the face of a spouse who's behaving more like a carefree teen. Supervisors and guild leaders are also put in uncomfortable situations, where they are forced to be The Bad Guy in order take care of their responsibilities. This week, we mamas put on our stern caps and wag our fingers a bit more than usual. But we really hope things turn out well for the letter writer and those he interacts with.
Dear Drama Mamas, I play WoW at work. Wife aggro is extremely bad at home (seriously, she makes up excuses to keep me from playing), so the only time I play there is if she is asleep or out of the house, neither of which happens often.
The problem with playing at work is that I have to go AFK fairly often to take care of customers. Depending on the customer, it could take anywhere from a couple of seconds to a couple of hours. When I am soloing (as an altaholic, I do that often), it is not a problem; but if I try to do a 5-man or raid, I waste other people's time when I go AFK.
Last week, I was in a guild raid, got a customer, and announced that I was going AFK. After ten minutes, I snuck back to my desk, told the guild that I may be a while longer, and they can replace me if they can find another healer. They managed to find a replacement and booted me. Later on, I got a tell from a guildmate that some officers have been complaining that I go AFK a lot.
When I heard that there were complaints against me, I was determined to find out how I can fix it. The guild I am in is filled with very nice, non-confrontational people; so I knew that any hard decisions were going to have to come from me. I could swear off raids and 5-mans altogether, but then I would miss out on a huge portion of the game. I could push for playing at home, but it would be a long, uphill battle that may destroy my marriage (yeah, she's that stubborn). The suggestion I gave to the raid leader was that I am to be treated as a stand-in, and anyone that wants my spot can have it, regardless to whether or not I am AFK at the time. I am also to be booted if I am AFK for a ready check, minimizing the amount of time the raid loses if I have to go AFK unannounced.
The raid leader agreed, but I do not feel at peace with how I handled the situation. We don't have a lot of active raiders in the guild, but we typically have a couple of people on a wait list. Now any person on the wait list automatically gets my spot, which could prove to be very inconvenient. At the same time, raiding is a time commitment, and playing at work puts me in no condition to be raiding in the first place. Please tell me how I can enjoy the game without being a burden. Thanks, AFK
Drama Mama Robin: AFK, I'm going to be a bit harsh here. You are making your teammates, employer and customers pay for the fact that you haven't solved your wife aggro issues. You are letting your wife dictate your leisure time, and that is a problem that has nothing to do with Azeroth. We've already dedicated a column to advice for people in your situation. Rather than just giving up on playing at home, take a look at our suggestions and some of the things the commenters say. You can and should work on your relationship with your wife as your highest priority. I don't know the source of your wife's not wanting you to play. She may be being completely unreasonable, or you may be neglecting her. Again, I don't know. But fixing the real source of your problem will help everything else fall into place.I also read your letter and get a bit stressed on your behalf. In this economy, doing something like playing WoW at work is extremely risky. Even if you say to yourself, "I'm helping the customers first and getting my work done;" you are still playing games at work, on company time and presumably with company equipment and bandwidth. Most companies consider this an offense worth firing over. And let's say your supervisors know and condone this -- do you think they're going to promote the guy who plays games at work or the person who doesn't? I won't get all preachy about the ethical issues as well, but from a purely practical standpoint, you should really consider all of the ramifications of playing at work.
While you're fixing your issues at home and if you continue to play at work, I really do think that to be considerate to both your customers and your guildmates, you should not do instances at all. Yes, you are missing out on a huge part of the game -- but consider it an incentive to fix your relationship issues sooner rather than putting them off.
Drama Mama Lisa: What a tangled mess! You're ruining your enjoyment of a favorite leisure activity because you're hiding it from your wife and customers? There's not a pretty way to paint this picture. I agree wholeheartedly with Robin that being forthright with your wife is your first order of business. Before you begin, though, I'd encourage you to spend time reflecting on your priorities. Right now, it appears that you've placed World of Warcraft squarely at the top of your list.
- You've prioritized WoW above your marriage by whisking your play time to another venue, rather than navigating through whatever concerns are causing all the hard feelings.
- You've prioritized WoW above your work, by inappropriately dividing your time and attention and depriving your customers of considerate, thorough service.
- You've prioritized your personal WoW goals above the needs of the very groupmates and guildmates who are helping you achieve them, by insisting on grouping and raiding at times when you know you are unable to give your undivided attention.
Drama Buster of the Week
If you have a blowout with a guildie, sleep on it before you take your grievances to the guild forums. And maybe do some yoga, run a few miles, do some kickboxing -- whatever helps you get rid of your aggression. Then write the post, but don't post it. Let it sit a few hours before you commit. The calmer and more rational you are, the more support you will gain.
Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at DramaMamas (at) WoW (dot) com.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
Arann May 14th 2010 11:14AM
Well, there's a balance to be found even in scheduled play time. If I want to do something else, I decline my raid invite on the calendar, and we go to "RL" stuff instead (Tuesday was Iron Man 2 night with my wife and some friends--well worth missing the raid.) However, since that was "my night," my wife let it be my call as to whether or not we went to the movie (as if there was any question.)
I should probably point out that I'm also a member of a friends and family guild, so we're all very understanding of things like this. If I were in a "normal" guild, I would probably think twice about canceling a raid slot less than a day in advance out of respect for my guild mates, but still--RL comes before WoW; having scheduled time just makes it easier to be intentional about how I use my leisure time without making the Mrs. feel ignored.
clevins May 14th 2010 1:43PM
@rob... you wish your wife would LET you? This and the carefree teen comment in the column annoy the heck out of me - both people in a marriage are adults and should talk to one another. If you don't do things because your wife won't 'let' you you need to grow up, grow a pair and talk to her. You each should be able to do things without the other person giving permission. You each should *also* be adult enough not to let those things become so consuming that they hurt your marriage. It's called being a resonable adult.
That's why the 'carefree teen' comment above had me glare at my laptop - Mamas, you're NOT OUR MOTHERS. It's belittling to act like your opinion is the adult one and his is immature and all to often that dynamic is used to do precisely what the LW describes - make the guy's life hell - "Playing games is for carefree teens! Grow UP!"
AS for whether these 2 should staty together, who knows? My take is that, if they can't talk about something like this, they're headed for the rocks. It might be that she's a control freak, it might be that he wants to play 5 nights a week and neglects his marriage - we can't know, so we can't say what they should do except for this - quit acting like 14 year olds and TALK.
Robin Torres May 14th 2010 1:51PM
@Clevins
carefree teens = quit acting like 14 year olds
Exactly.
clevins May 14th 2010 2:14PM
@Robin - I think we're talking about different things unless I misinterpreted your post. You say "But often we are just trying to be the voice of responsibility in the face of a spouse who's behaving more like a carefree teen." which implies that wives are somehow inherently more responsible - and that's what I find demeaning unless you'd grant the reverse too (that "often [husbands] are just trying to be the voice of responsibility in the face of a spouse who's behaving more like a carefree teen.")
My point was that BOTH people in the LW's marriage are acting immature - he by letting his wife dictate what he can do and sneaking behind her back and she by trying to forbid him to do something he enjoys. They both need to talk. This need is so blindingly obvious that many of the comments here point it out and, frankly, if they are so immature or relationship challenged that they can't figure this out, I have little hope for them as a couple or in later relationships. Being able to talk about stuff like this is pretty basic to any long term relationship.
L May 14th 2010 9:52AM
Does your wife have any hobbies of her own? If you spend some time with her while you are at home and explain to her that wow is your hobby and you would like her to respect that just as you respect her hobbies perhaps she would see it in a different light. Your marriage should come first. If it doesn't then your wife is 100% correct to not like you playing wow. If it does then hopefully you can come to a compromise. Find out what it is she doesn't like and then address that specific problem.
Namy May 14th 2010 6:39PM
My boyf has hobbies and he's always on the PS3 but he just doesn't get WoW at all. He just can't understand how I can spend so much time playing the same game (as he puts it). He keeps asking me why I'm not bored yet (I've been playing for 2 years). He just cannot fathom it.
How do you explain to someone that wow isn't the kind of game you just complete and then move on? It's impossible and it's causing quite a bit of friction!
soonerwolf May 14th 2010 9:56AM
I used to be in a similar situation. I am the GM of my guild. My wife didn't like WoW because I spent all my free time at home playing or dealing with guild issues. It nearly wrecked our marriage. So for a few months I swore off WoW at home... which led to me playing at work. Needless to say my productivity there went down, and thus found myself in a similar situation as the subject above.
After several months, my wife and I arrived at a compromise. I would have designated nights where I will play WoW (i.e. raiding uninterrupted), and the other nights she is first priority. I've also endeavored to educate my wife about WoW's social side. She understands it's now more than just pushing buttons and fantasy, it's about teamwork and comraderie, and escaping everyday stresses to have fun with friends. She now encourages my designated raid nights since she understands that everyone needs a hobby, and that she now knows personally some of our RL friends are also in the guild (and we spend RL time with them as well).
I still play at work during breaks ( AH, dailies, but no instances), but I find I don't *need* to play at work anymore. I've also delegated most of the running of the guild to the officers via rules changes. Now I just deal with guild business when it's necessary for an executive decision, and that's most often held either via offline forums or even a phone call.
I still play wow on non-designated nights when the wife has something else to do, but she's still #1, work's #2, and fun is #3.
zappo May 14th 2010 11:25AM
This is a pretty easy solution to implement. Just give your wife parental controls over your account. If you think you need more time, then you can simply talk it over with her. It puts a lot of trust in her hands, but generally she should understand that you're allowing her to limit you and shouldn't be used to club you over the head. Parental controls are pretty flexible since you can limit it by time per week, or by a strict schedule, or both. Also if she's always saying you play too much and has the weekly report to prove it, then maybe she's right.
Dave May 14th 2010 2:26PM
Frankly, that solution is moronic. Parental controls? How about a little self-restraint? Your wife isn't your parent, and she isn't your prison warden. It's a relationship, at the very least it should be about compromise. It's not her responsibility to mind you, and make sure you're doing everything just right, nor is it her right to control you and make it so you only do wife-sanctioned activities.
In 100% of these cases, barring those where there's some actual addictive behavior going on, the partner who doesn't play WoW (or doesn't read comic books, or doesn't build model trains) has no outside hobbies, and probably no friends. At best, they watch a lot of TV. They consider the game playing/model building/comic reading partner's childish and immature, when really all they do for entertainment is sit in front of a television and zone out. I'm not gender stereotyping here, I know this can be the problem of any partner, not just a wife, but allow me to share my anecdotal experience in the tech field: you get a bunch of tech guys together the guys and the people with interesting girlfriends all have vibrant conversations, not just about nerdy things, but science, politics, whatever. The kind of wives that AFK likely has have nothing to talk about but their weddings, other people's upcoming weddings, or babies.
There's a fortunate thing in life where you don't have to make friends with anybody you don't like. This is DOUBLY true for relationships/marriage. Many years back I came to the realization that I didn't want to make friends with anyone who didn't have nerdy hobbies. It's worked out splendidly. I am engaged to a woman who I would never describe as boring, but more importantly, I'd never describe as controlling. We play tons of games together, and nobody gets mad at anybody else for 'spending too much time on something.' I get a lot of sour grapes from people who married the wrong person going "Just wait until you're married, everything's going to change" Yeah, no. Because I'm marrying someone who's not a crazy, controlling freak, so things are going to work out just fine for me. She's not going to magically take away our videogames after our wedding night, nor is sex going to mysteriously disappear. For serious, I think people who give you that line about everything drying up when you marry are just being little babies because they married the wrong person, and instead of fixing their life it's just easier to convince themselves that everyone else has it the wrong way.
tl;dr, people who write letters like this usually married the wrong person. Things will not get better, ever. Find somebody who actually respects you and your hobbies instead of someone who says they do.
jealouspirate May 14th 2010 9:58AM
I'm not married, but I am in a very serious relationship with a girl who doesn't really approve of playing video games. We've had "discussions", some more heated than others, but now we're doing quite well after a setting some clear boundaries and rules. Here is what we did and what I've learned
1) One of my SO's biggest concerns was overly violent video games (ie God of War). She thought they were unhealthy, and I thought they were fine if put in the hands of a responsible and intelligent adult. This argument went on for a long time, and neither of us would budge. So you know what I did? I just stopped playing them, pretty much for good. I still think my opinion is correct, but in reality there are lots of other games for me to play and sometimes making your SO happy is more important than being right. You have to balance, compromise and make sacrifices.
2) Set out a schedule of gaming time and wife time and commit to it. Never leave your wife hanging as to when your raid will be over and you can spend time with her. This was a big thing for my SO and I. Also make sure to take your wife out on dates on a regular basis.
3) Do you have any other hobbies? This may seem odd, but with my SO the problem with gaming wasn't that it was time away from her, it was that she doesn't see playing video games as an edifying experience. Once I started devoting more time to other hobbies such as exercise and playing music, she was happier regardless of whether or not we did that stuff together.
In the end, I think you really *really* have to sit down and work this stuff out with your wife. Hiding your gaming behind her back will NOT solve your problems, at all. My girlfriend and I have had a lot of disagreements, but we consistently come to a peaceful resolution because we are open and honest about them. We respect each other and communicate.
Gimmlette May 14th 2010 9:59AM
I am the divorced GL of a casual guild. I try to be attuned to the nuances in what married guild members say. If someone comes on and says, "Man, I have wife aggro tonight," and he's heading into a raid, I can pretty much count on afks off and on all evening while he deals with whatever problem they have. I can't count the number of times I have whispered to someone, "Look, log off and deal with her/him. You're no good to us when you're distracted. This raid will always be here." I think it helps that I was married and remember the sometimes delicate give and take that's necessary to make a marriage work. For the record, mine was over long before WOW was every a glimmer in someone's eye.
This is exceptional advice and I also think it can be extrapolated to kids. If you are a parent with children, your children should take precedent over WOW. I have a number of new dads in my guild. (We joke about drinking the water as we have a few more who are expecting their first child this year.) They want to play WOW, to raid with us, to see all this grand and glorious pretend universe. But a newborn, 3 month-old, 6 month-old, 16 year-old require a certain amount of attention and sitting in front of a computer screen tanking Ignis isn't giving them the attention they need or want from you. Deal with that first.
As a supervisor who also plays WOW, I could at work. I can get my work done and do what I have to do during the day AND do dailies or 5-mans, perhaps even raid. For awhile, WOW was on my computer and the computer of another guy in the office who plays. We removed its. It demands as much attention as the phone or filing or anything else I do here. We have had, in this economy, days when we have nothing to do and that temptation to put it back up is strong. But we both know what it takes to play and even on a dull day, we have to be ready to react when we get a phone call. Can't do that if you're in the middle of the Pit of Saron.
I would recommend AFK take a break from the game and get his life in order. If I was his GL, that's what I would recommend. He and his guild will benefit from fixing what's wrong.
Umehte May 14th 2010 10:21AM
Man I am glad that my wife plays WoW. We are in a casual friend/family guild that also includes my mother in law, sister and brother in laws, and pretty much close friends. I am probably one of the more hardcore gamer types out of the groups, but honestly I play to the level of everyone there. We don't raid, even though I would like to, but I know if I join a raiding guild then I would start seeing some of the same issues cropping up as AFK. WoW is so envolving on different levels that I honestly don't miss being "hardcore gamer guy." Why ruin being able to play a fantastic game with my extended family for that?
ambermist May 14th 2010 10:24AM
I'm lucky enough to have a husband who plays, but he and I came to a firm agreement before I walked into my first raid.
If, at any time, either one of us thought the other was spending too much time playing, we would both quit. If, at any time, either one of us felt neglected or ignored, we would both quit. If either one of us felt that our playtime was negatively affecting our children, we would both quit. We both understand that in order for one of us to successfully walk away from the game, both of us would have to.
When I was about to deliver my second child (my now 2-year-old son), I took a break from raiding for several months. I needed to get everything ready for the baby, deliver him, recover, and spend time with my newborn, and raiding just couldn't be a priority. To his credit, my husband quit with me. Together we enjoyed the birth and first few months of our son's itty bittiness without any pressure or time constraints from WoW.
Once our son got settled into a comfortable schedule and was sleeping for 6 hours a night, my husband and I slowly started raiding again. It took some time, and we missed the first Illidan kill, but we eventually started raiding full-time again.
I wouldn't trade enjoying those first few WoW-free months of my son's life for anything. Boss kills come and go, but you only get one first smile.
GoLeafs May 14th 2010 10:28AM
Does your wife not have hobbies of her own? Have you tried playing WoW together so you can spend time together in-game?
Playing WoW at work sounds like a very irresponsible thing to do.
You haven't said why your wife doesn't like you playing WoW. Is it because you play it to the exclusion of all else? It is because she feels neglected? Is it because you neglect your responsibilities at home when you play WoW at home?
My husband and I each have our own hobbies, and some that we participate in together. We both run and lift weights together. He plays basketball. I play WoW. We have a healthy relationship where we realize we don't need to spend every single moment of our leisure time together. We do enjoy each others' company, of course, and there are many activities that we enjoy doing together. But we also each have hobbies that the other has absolutely no interest in, and so we enjoy spending time doing those hobbies on our own time.
It sounds like this guy really needs to work on his marriage and figure out just why his wife is so opposed to him playing WoW at home (if he doesn't already know). Setting some firm times to play WoW, when his wife would know he is playing WoW might be a place to start.
CaryEverett May 14th 2010 10:30AM
*laughs* Wife aggro takes on a whole new level of weird when you're a lesbian.
ANYWAY. My partner plays but doesn't like raiding. She finds it too confusing trying to heal in large groups (and she plays a priest and doesn't like that paladins always get put healing me instead of her).
The way I handled it was I minimized my time outside of raids that wasn't spent with her, in return for being allowed to spend time in raids. By reducing the amount of time I spent farming or doing dailies, I was able to procure more time for myself for raiding, without making her feel neglected.
It's prioritizing.
Origional_Der May 14th 2010 10:48AM
you need to communicate. without that how is she meant to understand?
and what is a helpmate? I’m a woman (weird calling myself that seen as I’m only 20) and ply wow... my boyfriend knows I play wow and he plays guild wars... sometimes we play team fortress 2 together but the point I’m making is you shouldn’t be told what hobbies you can/cannot do. you are EQUALS do you tell her how to spend her time?
If my boyfriend did that to me there would be some serious talking going on, because no man ... or woman for that matter gets to tell me how to live my life.
Hope that doesn’t sound too harsh :S
Origional_Der May 14th 2010 10:50AM
in the words of the great Bon Jovi...
“It’s my life!"
Koraya May 14th 2010 10:43AM
I just want to point out that there are certain jobs where playing a game, or otherwise occupying yourself, is encouraged. I have worked two jobs where you are literally paid to stay awake:
1. Elderly care- I worked a job where internet and a computer was provided to entertain me so that I was not only awake, but ALERT for when my charge needed me (they tend to sleep for the majority of your shift). I have heard of many WoWer's that work in this type of situation. The employer actually encourages playing because you are less likely to nod off than watching TV or reading a book.
2. Nighttime Security- usually of the gatehouse variety, though other situations might apply. My supervisor actually watched me play once, and noted on my review that I was always alert. In the 8 hours I work, I spend maybe 10-20min actually assisting someone. My job is solely to be there in case of emergency.
Just to note- I have NEVER tried to raid or 5-man at work. It isn't fair to the guild/group or your employer. (My hubby plays WoW and might run an alt through something, but that is it). On the other hand, Insane title here I come!
Rob May 14th 2010 11:24AM
This is all true. We had a (great) security guard at our complex who was an immigrant who was going to school to be an engineer. The security guard station allowed him a ton of interaction with people (so improving his social/english skills), and allowed him to work on his homework. I'm sure he also did other things like read the newspaper and so forth. Could you do WoW in that context? I probably would to some degree, esp if it was the graveyard shift.
However, you need to be thinking of the clock, it is your enemy. You will not be young forever. You will not be fertile forever (even guys). If you want a family, you need to think about putting food on the table, and a reliable and furfilling career. A job that you hate is not a career, it puts food on the table and thats it.
So you need to think about what its going to take to get yourself into a position where you have a good and semi-reliable career. If that means more education or whatever, do it. Do it while you have that crappy job that you do nothing productive all day. Or use the time to generate business if that helps you.
I won't throw stones, I've been playing for 5 years, and god knows how I got through my education while playing games so much. But now that I'm in the real world I'm increasily realizing that I have got to get my shit together and get a successful career started so we can afford to have kids and a future. Sorry if this is a rant, it's something I've been thinking about quite a bit.
Dave May 14th 2010 6:40PM
That's incredibly condescending to people who want kids. I could turn it around and say "You know what, you're only young for so long. Why waste it on BABIES?" and people who loved kids and thought kids were great and thought kids were the end-all-be-all of human existence would throw a hissy fit about it.
Some people want kids. I want the time and money that not having kids provide not only for creative endeavors, but just to have fun, to enjoy the people I want to be around, and blah blah blah. In my situation, the job I need is whatever facilitates those things in the best way possible. I don't need a "career", I need something that pays me money, so I can be creative on my own, or so I can drink beer with my friends, or even play WoW.
Your tone is unbelievably condescending, as I've said, and your "there but for the grace of god go I" post script speaks volumes about you and not videogames. I'm at the age where many of my friends are partnering off and having babies. Just as playing Halo didn't magically stop them from getting a college eduction (though you seem to think it would), playing WoW isn't automatically revoking their baby license.