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5-14-2010 @ 3:25PM
Every time I read a guild app or see in Trade; "Must know fights." I laugh myself silly.How the heck are you supposed to "know" the fights if no one is willing to take the time to teach? WoW is so full of elitism that it drives me nuts.I'd rather take the player that wants to learn, but has no clue any day over the player that is so full of themselves that they can't take 5 minutes to explain something to someone who has never done it before.
5-14-2010 @ 3:41PM
Speaking as a raid leader, there are nights when I'm looking to help people, and there are nights when I'm looking to kill shit. Some days, my goal is to go in and kill things. Our (small, 10-man) guild has everything but the Frostwing Halls pretty much on farm; if we spend more than an hour in Lower Spire, people get antsy. As a raid leader looking for PUGs when not everyone can show up, I have to balance a couple things: Do they have the gear? Do they have the experience? Do they have the skill?The first one is mostly a numbers game; relatively easy. The second one is something that's easy to determine. The third is impossible to quantify unless you've run with that person before.So, on some nights where we're not looking to progress much, because we get started late, main tanks aren't there, etc. I might just look for someone who's done the Lower Spire. On nights where we're just shy one DPS, I'm going to look for someone who's got the experience to let us push further in. Basically, these are the kinds of choices I have to make as a raid leader; I evaluate the mood of my raiders, try to determine the state of people, and make a call. Sometimes I'll just be looking for someone who isn't going to spend the whole time standing in fire. Sometimes, I'll be looking to move forward, and want someone who's going to help us do that.It's not the job of a raid leader to coddle or teach new raiders things, not in a guild which has a goal of progressing. Sometimes you have to fall back to that, and that's okay, especially if you get someone who you can get a personal recommendation on. But in the general case -- the case where you're just looking to fill one spot, and you have an experienced group who want to push further than the first four -- you're going to want to take the best you can get.That isn't to say that guilds should never go through and help new raiders. In fact, the single best way to recruit people to your guild is to take reasonably-geared people who haven't seen ICC in. Start an alt-run on Saturday afternoon, and offer to take people who are wanting to learn, have reviewed strats, etc. It's possible for a good alt group to take a new raider into ICC and make decent progress, and guilds should consider that as a form of recruitment. Many groups now will not want to do that teaching, and if you offer to, any solid raiders who come with you are going to be in a position to move up and PUG more in the future, and will be thankful to you for the opportunity.Additionally, most guilds are not looking to shoot themselves in the foot; many will take a dedicated trial member on, even without having seen them complete as much of ICC if they'd like -- if you'd ask. Taking initiative as a new raider will always help.Additionally, everyone has to start somewhere. Pick a friend -- possibly an experienced one, or if not, just any friend -- and start up an ICC. Pick up the knowledge with a group of people who may or may not have it, and don't put yourself into a situation where you're going to feel out of your depth on day one.There's lots of things to do here, but I don't think that "Must know fights!" is always the wrong thing for a guild recruitment or LFM statement to ask for.
5-14-2010 @ 3:48PM
Know fights does not necessary mean completed fights. Are you joining a pug for the first 4 bosses of ICC? Tab out and spend 15 mins on youtube watching a few video's. Make sure you use DBM or a similar addon as well as debuff timers.Basically anything that will help you react quickly to things that you know will happen from a reading up on the fight standpoint but have never personally experienced.The reason people want experienced people in their pugs is that as a RL in a pug you have to deal with not knowing everyone, half the dps is wispering you that they want to roll tank or heals for main spec. Their bff or bf or sister's dog needs into the raid, they need to go afk for this or that reason. Explaining the fights in depth becomes an extra hassle that you can easily get rid of. Regardless of how many people have done the fight I do a quick overview of how WE are going to do it so if you've watched a video and you listen there you should be fine. TL:DR Take responsibility for your own raid knowledge even if you havn't experienced it before.
5-14-2010 @ 4:11PM
@ UraI'm also very casual but I do feel we should be personable responsible for knowing the generally accepted strategy. That information can be obtained before you try to raid. Now, on the other shoe, I won't join such groups that insist on stupid things like unreasonably high GS (such that you need no loot from those bosses), or things like that. And further, "must know fights" is a sign of raid leader laziness. Its indicative that they have no clue how to teach, or no desire to teach. That's pretty much a main qualification of the RL, in addition to putting the raid together and handling loot. Yes I know being RL is a burden, but somebody has to do it; likewise you have to start somewhere. Take a look at the applicants armory. Any PVP gear? bad enchants/gems? If so, probably not a good fit. You can also see what kind of drops they got, is it all badge gear or some ICC? That's a bonus for you, since that means they do know how to kill the boss. It isn't a crushing burden to look at the armory for everyone and use your brain to figure out if people are a good fit or now, and it avoids the whole GS nonsense.
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