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5-15-2010 @ 6:16PM
I am going to have to agree. After I killed Arthas I looked and saw I had to do everything I just did, AGAIN but with Hardmodes. It really took the motivation out of me. Why do what I just did again? For loot? That may be good for some people, but loot does not motivate me, fun does. And repeating everything just for the sake of it is not appealing or fun.I loved the Ulduar one, with certain bosses having hardmodes that unlocked a bonus boss. That works really well.
5-15-2010 @ 7:15PM
Completely agree.It's felt like the fun has been sucked out of our guild ever since we finally killed LK25. Now, we're just doing the same dungeon again for more loot. Oh, and drakes.If there was another dungeon after Icecrown, then I might care. But, we know there won't be a raid with loot better than 277/284 gear. We also know that Cataclysm is going to re-do everything, and unless the stat inflation works its way backward to current gear, quest reward greens will overshadow all of our hard-earned green-texted loots.The fights themselves don't feel epic at all. The hard modes really don't feel like hard modes--they just feel like changing the way some of the mechanics work to make it slightly harder, like preventing you from stacking up on a fight where that was the original strategy. Compared to Ulduar, which I think everybody agrees totally nailed hard modes, it's just terrible. The fight that changes the most is Putricide, and all that happens is that he double-spawns adds instead of stunning the raid and throws out a plague that you have to spread around carefully. Compare it to Thorim, in which the hard mode is actually LORE.In Ulduar, it felt like hard mode was the removal of a limiter from the bosses. You left towers up to allow Flame Leviathan to utilize all of his abilities. You broke XT's heart, which removed his limiter. You pushed the self-destruct button, which made Mimiron want to kill you faster. Hell, even the Iron Council had a unique hard mode--kill the bosses in a different order. Not a single fight in ToC or ICC has utilized hard modes properly. It's simply altering mechanics a bit and giving the boss a new ability.Long story short, the bosses are fun on normal and relentlessly dumb in heroic. The biggest example of a terribly-designed heroic fight is Deathwhisper. Adds spawn on a faster timer, have more health, deform/reincarnate more often, and continue to spawn in phase 2. She has more health, more mana, and MCs more people in your raid. Ghosts kill anyone they touch and anyone within 10 yards of that person (which is FUN with a capital FU because they're untargetable NPCs and damn-near impossible to see). Is it harder? Sure. Is it pointlessly harder? You bet.Oh, and another thing heroic difficulties do: they force you to stack your raid one way over another. Think Heroic Anub'arak. You literally could not complete this fight without at least 4 Paladins and two geared Block tanks. The current incarnation of LK10HM -requires- a Discipline Priest and no more than one melee class, which is most likely going to be a death knight. The raid stacking is unbelievably frustrating. What's more frustrating is when the hard mode is designed with 25-man in mind, which makes 10-man incredibly hard because it's not scaled correctly (Blood Prince Council comes to mind). In an expansion touting "bring the player, not the class", heroic difficulties completely contradict the concept.I would like to see them go back to the Ulduar design scheme. Not every fight has a hard mode, hard mode doesn't necessarily mean more health/more damage, multiple levels of hard modes ala OS/FL/Yogg, and hard-mode only bosses.
5-15-2010 @ 8:07PM
Squeek is getting a column, right WoW.com? Right?
5-15-2010 @ 10:31PM
I couldn't agree more. Ulduar's hard modes were epic, with every hard mode adding in different (sometimes drastically different) mechanics to the fight. To illustrate the difference between Ulduar and the following tiers, I'll list some of the differences of the hard mode bosses, which is something missing from Squeek's excellent post since it's already so long.FL - MASSIVE increase in health, Freezing beams, Explosion beams, Fire beams, giant addsXT - Substantial increase in health and damage, no increased damage heart phases, Adds with a damage aura, void zonesIC - Extreme raid damage aura, massive tank damage, and a punishing soft enrage from tank deaths due to the debuff if your raid's dps was lowHodir - 3 minute timer required cutting down on healers and forced every raider to maximize uptime of every single NPC's buffThorim - Increased health and damage required perfectly coordinated raid positioning and movement along with uninterruptable frost novas and frostbolt volleys that were specifically designed to hinder that movementFreya - Substantial increase in health and damage of Freya AND her adds, along with new abilities like an AoE silence, huge raid damage zones, and roots that had to be killed quickly punished uncoordinated raids like no other fightMimiron - increased health pushed the enrage timer to the limit, fire all over the place, giant aoe explosions that one shot people, new adds that one shot people and AoE silence if not killed quickly, but they're also the only thing that can put out the fire in P3 and P4Vezax - The boss' gimmick was a complete lack of regen that left you two options: Kill him fast or use the saronite pools to get mana back. Hard mode required you to do neither, along with killing an add that spawned after 4 minutes and had a raid-wide, increasing damage AoE pulse.Yogg - Full hard mode was virtually impossible, requiring unbelievably high AoE damage, perfect control of sanity by every single raider, insanely well-geared tanks and healers, and perfect coordination by five different players in P3 to avoid healing all the UNKILLABLE ADDS THAT KEEP SPAWNING and one-shotting basically your entire raidNow, compare those mechanics to ToC hard modesBeasts - More health, more damage, next phase starts whether previous boss is dead or not, no speed buff on IcehowlJaraxxus - More health, more damage, have to actually kill portals and volcanoes nowFaction Champs - More health, more damageTwins - More health, more damage, more orbs, stronger shield, bigger heal if you miss the shieldAnub - More health, more damage, 2 more adds, only 6 ice patches, adds keep spawning in P3The only boss whose hard mode was significantly different was Anub, and it never felt more epic, just like it had added difficulty just to be difficultIcecrown - More health and More damage are just givens for every fightMarrowgar - Spikes during bone stormDeathwhisper - This fight really feels epic. The adds come much faster and her health is such that they can't be handled normally but must be clumped on the boss and cleaved down, making the whole fight feel hectic and dangerous, plus she is not tauntable in P2Lootship - Oh snap, the ropckets knock you back and you might fall off the ship and...be ported back up safely.Saurfang - blood power gain increased dramatically, making healing of the marks very intense and high DPS a necessityFestergut - Putricide throws snot at youRotface - Vile gas means ranged have to spread outPutricide - a disease bounces around and must be controlled carefully or it one shots people, ther is no tear gas, instead two oozes spawn at phase changes and the raid gets debuffs where they can only damage one color of oozeCouncil - a damaging debuff stacks whenever you move on a very high movememnt fightBlood Queen - AoE damage goes up as the fight gets longerDreamwalker - ...?Sindragosa - Unchained magic causes and AoE explosion instead of single target, there is one extra ice tomb and the explosions during the air phase do enough damage to one shot peopleLK - Valks drop people at 50% but stay around smiting raiders until they are killed by ranged, Vile spirits have too much health to kill reliably and must be soaked by someone with immunity, the entire raid goes to the frostmourne room and has to survive instead of just one guyLDW, Saurfang, Putricide, and LK are the only fights that feel like a "Heroic mode" instead of just a "Hard mode"I for one really hope Blizzard goes back to the Ulduar model for Cataclysm raids.Again, great post Squeek, really nailed it.
5-15-2010 @ 11:51PM
At this point I'm just jumping on the bandwagon but hey......yeah. I agree absolutely.
5-16-2010 @ 12:00PM
Oh no! It looks like a whole lot of QQkachu! Quick, get your pokéballs and catch them before they get away!
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