Insider Trader: Selling arrows in singles for the price of a stack scam

I'm going to come right out and say it: Don't do this. I recently wrote about ways engineers can make money, mentioning (among other things) selling epic ammo to hunters. The problem with making the best raiding and PvP ammo in the game only available from players is that it forces hunters to either find an engineer with the recipe who is willing to do all the crafting by mail, or buy it off the auction house.
What do I have against the auction house, you ask? Well, overall it's an excellent tool and far superior to the much nastier alternative of being forced to actually use trade chat for, you know, trade. It's not perfect, however. In fact, there's one massive glaring inadequacy that can be found.
The "steal from a hunter" button
The AH has, built in to its base functionality, a button. It's big, red and when pushed, takes a small amount of gold from a distracted hunter and puts it into your bags. It's a rotten, nasty trick that I feel should be a bannable offense. Basically, the icon for a stack of, say, Iceblade Arrows looks close enough to the stack of a 1,000 iceblades that maybe every 100th hunter who searches for their ammo for raid that night will accidentally buy a single arrow being listed for sale by an unscrupulous jerk instead of a stack being listed by an honest engineer.

How it could be fixed
While I'd fully support Blizzard handing out 72-hour economic manipulation bans for this scam, all Blizzard would have to do to fix this is make the default auction interface sort these stacks by unit price instead of stack price. To be honest, that would solve a lot of other problems, too. The overall buying interface is dated and clumsy, and one of the biggest advantages that addon-using auctioneers enjoy is that they have the ability to buy smarter. Making the AH interface give as many of those advantages to the end buyers is a change I'd fully support. An overhaul of the buying interface is as needed as the one they made to the selling interface.
The real problem
The real problem with scams like this is that as soon as people get a taste of AH PvP and, say, make their first 20,000g, they start to get cocky and adversarial. They get a lot more economic power than they started off with, and just like arena teams doing world PvP in leveling zones, like to wield this power. I'm all in favor of economic PvP -- however, only against other AH players. When two auctioneers armed with addons, gold, trade skills and inventory battle, the clients win. That's how it should be. In the real world, you can't simply go around the law and rob people if you can't hack it in the real market. You get caught and punished.
Using cheap tricks to make small amounts of gold off honest buyers is a waste of brainwidth. If you want a real fight, try to push your way into an established and profitable market. It takes more work, but the rewards are better. The time people waste opening mail with returned auctions, small amounts of ill-gotten gold and huge amounts of hate mail could have been much more profitably spent learning another trade skill and using it to start an AH supply business.
What you can do
If you see someone posting single bullets or arrows for the price of a stack, open a ticket. If enough people do this, it will get on Blizzard's radar. Also, if you're feeling a little more proactive, feel free to buy a stack of normal priced arrows and sell singles at the same unit price you bought them for. If you paid 3.85g (like in the above example), listing them for 40 copper will push all the scam auctions off the first page and potentially reduce the number of single arrows at full stack price that get sold.
Be aware that overdoing this is no good, either -- if people have to scan past five pages of singles to get to the real ones, you're only replacing one problem with another one. Also, it's trivial for the scammer to simply buy out your auctions to keep their place in the AH. If they do this, you can keep relisting and forcing them to empty a lot of mailboxes.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Cheats, Economy, Insider Trader (Professions)
Transmog yourself into an Avenger!
6 blue posts to read before Diablo 3's launch
Cross-realm zones coming soon
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria news







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 22)
steph May 17th 2010 2:05PM
This makes me so mad, I shouldn't have to worry about this whilst buying arrows.
Good advice, I'll keep an eye out.
Kuro May 17th 2010 2:33PM
You won't have to worry about buying ammo soon*. It's going away in Caty. And we're likely gonna get a new AH buying interface then too.
Until then.. auctioneer and sort by percentage.
Camo May 17th 2010 2:37PM
Like Villainus from http://www.wow.com/2010/05/12/the-classifieds-one-million-gold-in-his-pocket/...
"Single Iceblade Arrow sales: 16,374g"
That's just disgusting.
/spit
evanmbunnell May 17th 2010 3:02PM
His name is "Villainus", not "Herous".
What did you expect?
Aaron May 17th 2010 3:17PM
"What did you expect?"
For wow.com to not praise him for doing it in one blog and fussing at others for doing it in another. After reading the Villianus piece I considered trying this on my realm, but morals kicked in. =P
Heilig May 17th 2010 3:30PM
Next week on Insider Trader:
"Buying stacks of Flasks on weekends while they're cheap and selling them singly on Tuesday when the price is high scam"
How dare people profit from other people's laziness? What do they think this is, a free market economy?
Neirin May 17th 2010 3:34PM
A bit over 16k gold from these unscrupulous sales doesn't mean the rest of that 1 mil gold earned isn't praiseworthy. If WoW.com hadn't reported on someone hitting 1 mil gold, I'm sure right now we'd be hearing about how behind the times they are.
That said, dick move screwing hunters out of 16k gold. All I can hope for is that he's ashamed of what he did.
Basil Berntsen May 17th 2010 3:39PM
@Heilig Market timing is not a scam. There's more demand on certain nights, and the prices change. This scam relies on a small percent of hunters making a mistake a small percent of the time, and getting suckered into paying more than the supply and demand would suggest they're worth.
Sedirex May 17th 2010 3:47PM
Stop QQing. Selling a couple arrows is a far cry from unscrupulous. You're an idiot if you try to blame sellers for taking advantage of buyers too lazy to read.
"Morally equivalent to taking mats to enchant a piece of gear and not doing the promised enchant"? Only if you tell them you won't do the enchant first.
Dave May 17th 2010 3:48PM
I feel bad for those who bought them, and personally never tried this...but honestly, buyer beware.
If it doesn't say 1000 in the stack, and you still buy it, you are what Gevlon calls(and I agree), a member of the Morons and Slackers.(or is it suckers? I dunno)
If you can't double check what you clicked, then double check the confirmation window that comes up just so you can DOUBLE DOUBLE CHECK what you are buying, than it's your own fault.
Let me put in perspective. I run a used car dealership that has been in business for 50 years. We are not big, because we treat our people good. So if I buy a bad car at the auction, I don't sell it on the lot, cause we are well known for being the opposite of your stereotypical dealer. (Scum is the general view people have of used car dealers.)
If I buy a bad car at the auction, as my dad told me when I was younger...too bad. If you make a poor purchase on the auction house, then just pay attention next time, lessen learned.
"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me."
maxthehazy May 17th 2010 4:18PM
There is nothing wrong with someone selling any item in any stack size he wants. There is nothing wrong with a person setting any price point he wishes for that stack or item. The person selling ammo in stacks of singles, tens, hundreds, or any other size is not in any way able to misrepresent what they are selling on the AH. The AH not only displays the stack size in the interface but also provides a confirmation box again displaying the quantity and price. A seller is in no way responsible when a person selects an item, clicks "buyout", and then again confirms that purchase with yet another action. The bottom line is that if a person "falls" for this "trick", that person is a fool. And you know what they say about a fool and his money...
Scott May 17th 2010 4:47PM
Caveat venditor.
^ WoW needs more of this. ^
In this game, you can hide behind your monitor and spout off about "If you're stupid enough to buy it, you deserve to be scammed." Rip off somebody in real life and you stand the chance of getting your lily ass kicked by a scorned buyer.
Ultranator May 17th 2010 4:47PM
I don't see this as an banable offense. Like your own analogy, Blizz won't ban people for going over to lowbie zones on pvp servers and killing lowbie characters... Is it kind of a jerk move? Yes. Is it against TOS? I don't think so. Is it against ToS for people to put gray items for high prices? No, but no one will buy them. Is it against ToS for people to put single items up for the same price of 1k? No. Is it a jerk move? Sure. Will people get banned for it because people open up tickets? Probably not. So, I'd just save your time and be careful what you buy.
Hoggersbud May 17th 2010 5:07PM
>Let me put in perspective. I run a used car dealership that has been in business for 50 years. We are not big, because we treat our people good. So if I buy a bad car at the auction, I don't sell it on the lot, cause we are well known for being the opposite of your stereotypical dealer. (Scum is the general view people have of used car dealers.)
If I buy a bad car at the auction, as my dad told me when I was younger...too bad. If you make a poor purchase on the auction house, then just pay attention next time, lessen learned.<
Don't be fooled by the word auction, a used car auction and the auction house in WOW are rather different things. They are aimed at rather different purposes.
>"Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." <
Try to keep fooling everybody and eventually they'll all decide they'd rather make what you're doing a criminal act and put you in jail. That's why we have lemon laws and other consumer protections in the automotive business. Or CarFax.
Oh well, at least the one arrow is guaranteed to work.
Roboticus May 17th 2010 5:07PM
Here is the relevant blue post on this topic. Posting here to preempt all of the misinformation below. Morally dubious? Maybe. But please don't try to use ridiculous ToS arguments like commenters below when Blizzard is quite clear this is not a scam.
The Blue post: "In short, placing items on the Auction House for significantly higher prices than other, like items is not a "scam" because at no time is the price of the item misrepresented; not only are prices (along with their gold, silver and copper denominations) clearly labeled in the Auction House interface, but players are required to confirm once more that they actually wish to pay X price for Y item. These safeguards are sufficient to ensure that players are aware of what they're agreeing to pay, as one should always exercise caution when making such purchases, large or small.
What's more, the Auction House is a free market, which means that there is no authoritative regulation of prices; thus, sellers are welcome to set whatever price they feel is fair, and buyers may either opt or decline to purchase the item at that price. In this way, supply and demand fuel the economy; not only are sellers given an opportunity to influence the market of which they are a part, but buyers ultimately make the decision as to whether those sales are successful. This does, of course, place the burden on buyers to pay attention to their dealings in the Auction House. :)"
Hoggersbud May 17th 2010 5:38PM
I see nothing in the Blizzard posting that specifically sets out to cover this particular instance, and besides, even if they did...they could still be convinced to change their minds on the subject.
For the longest time, folks were taking the same position about Frozen Orbs. But then Blizzard (wisely IMO) changed them so they couldn't be needed. I wonder why?
I don't think there's quite as easy a solution for arrows/bullets, but there could be something done.
Convince me there shouldn't be.
Don't try to get me to believe in this bullshit of a free market, hands-off excuse.
Exactly how do *WE* the players who have to put up with this benefit by folks being able to scam us? How?
Cuz I don't see the upside. Just like I didn't see an upside to folks being able to need on Frozen Orbs versus greed or pass.
Ultranator May 17th 2010 5:55PM
Hogger...
Blizzard also didn't ban people for needing on Frozen Orbs. They just made it so you can't need it in random instances. You can still need on them if you're in a premade Heroic group BTW.
Grovinofdarkhour May 17th 2010 6:05PM
@scooter
Wow, someone's got a real bug up their bum today.
Are we knocking your favorite selling tactic?
Roboticus May 17th 2010 6:27PM
@Hoggersbud, This blue post was in DIRECT response to someone complaining about the Arrows "Scam" so if you can't understand how it relates, the problem may be you. But to summarize nonetheless, the blue correctly points out that because all information was displayed accurately in the AH interface, there was no scam. A scam is defined as providing inaccurate information to garner a beneficial exchange. There was no inaccurate information, hence there was no scam. I'm not saying it was right, nor that the free market justifies it as okay, but just that the blizzard response is crystal clear on this, despite how many "careless carebears" make a mistake. Rules are not the same as morality, which is the mistake you make.
Grovinofdarkhour May 17th 2010 6:37PM
Forgive me for not taking your definition of the word "scam" as universal ironclad fact, but I can't seem to find any confirmation that "providing inaccurate information" is an actual requirement.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/scam
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scam
http://www.askoxford.com/concise_oed/scam?view=uk