My guild's RL was actually asking everyone to install this. My response to him was if I needed this mod to raid, I'd rather not raid at all. There are helpful mods and then there are mods like this that just cross the line. I'm glad it is being broken.

I do doff my hat to the creator(s) of this though. I imagine it took a lot of ingenuity to come up with this mod, and while I admire it as a technical achievement, I feel it doesn't belong with the playerbase.

It's new to our team too, but I guess for us it's just back to using smoke flares and stones.

I agree with you pawson672. Part of the game is being able to think on your feet. Think about it... can it really be called an accomplishment when your addon told you how to do almost everything?

This mod has gotten really popular in my guild, and has been helpful for a lot of fights. I don't think we've come to rely on it, but we will be very sad that it's gone

My former guild requires raiders to have this mod. Didn't help one lick with fail healing in P3 sindragosa (normal mode now). I think the bigger issue isn't AVR, but rather AVRE, which paints circles on the ground where malleable goo hits in putricide and rotface HM. That's the big issue that blizzard has, because just marking territory and people can be done with raid icons and flares. It's the fact that the mod can draw malleable goo hit radii that has them up in arms (and elitists who hate this mod cite that as the handholding/cheating aspect of the mod).

@Scooter

DBM tells you what to do a lot more than AVR did, in my experiences. DBM tells you when Nasty Spell XYZ is going off, who it hit, and when it'll be off cooldown again. AVR just tells you where a spell is going to hit -if it targets a player-. It can't mark anything else, like ground AOE.

I loved the fact that I could use it to see my totem radiuses, the radius of Malleable Goo in Putri, and whether I was too close to another Ice Tomb in Sindy. These are things that players should be able to see DEFAULT but we can't and I don't understand why. I never understood why there are so many encounters where you need to be distance x or y away from another player or from point z, but we have no way to measure that. We just have to sort of eyeball it. DMB can tell you if you're too close, but not if you're 7 yards away from someone like AVR could. DBM can't tell you how far player X is from player Y. I could simply draw a 7 yard circle around everyone if I wanted to with AVR.

If Blizzard doesn't want us being able to easily measure distances, then I do understand that it's their game, but I still feel it's not an unreasonable thing to be able to do.

People who abuse mods will always abuse them.

@Knob

Personally I blame Blizzard. They create these extremely timing dependent bosses where you have to be in exactly the right place and the right time otherwise you go insta-splat, and if you have latency above 50ms you'll die anyhow even if you know where to be. This mod kinda helped with that sort of problem.

And where do you draw the line anyhow? Lack of raid awareness (which also goes with execution) is the single largest cause of raid wipes I think, and most all these mods like DBM, Healbot, Grid and Decursive (I think named all the essentials for raiding there) most regard as ESSENTIAL to helping you do your job while being aware of whats going on it in the raid - AVR was just another tool akin to all the others I mentioned.

I'm in the same boat: I only learned about it two weeks ago, when a family member pugged into a raid with one of the end-game progression guilds on our server. I installed it, as it provided some useful visual queues in regular encounters (AVRE is the addon) such as painting red circles on the floor in Rotface where the exploded ooze would land. So, it was nice, and I liked it, but I haven't learned to rely on it. Its loss won't diminish my gameplay.

That said, I'd like to acknowledge Blizzard for being very sporting in warning us about the mod's impending demise, instead of just springing it on us when the patch hit. This will allow most of us to abandon the mod before it becomes further entrenched in our raids... and for some of us to raid like mad before 3.3.5 hits, so as to get as much use out of AVR as possible before the hammer drops.

@Snuzzle: DBM has a range metre. Usage: /range X (where X = the range you want it to show).

Let's say we put in /range 12. Anyone within 12 yards of me will be shown in a box (movable) on my screen.

@Snuzzle

I actually wish they would remove DBM functionality from the game. There's no question that it's extremely helpful, but it eliminates so much of the need for self-awareness from boss encounters. In every raid I enter, DBM tells me exactly what I need to do without ever having experienced the fights. I don't need to pay attention to anything except healing and while many would argue that this adds to the experience, I feel that it takes away. I should have to worry about when a boss is going to use a special ability and there should be communication within the raid as to when some horrible thing is about to take place without an automated system that reminds me every step of the way. It becomes more checklist-like and really does take alot of the "epic" out of the experience for me. An enrage timer ticking down adds helpful tension to many encounters, but everything else simply dumbs-down the fight.

So long as it's functional, I will continue to use it. It's become a requirement for raiding and I can't really afford not to use it when everybody else is. Perhaps it opens up possibilities for Blizzard to create raid encounters that would otherwise be next to impossible and there is some value in being able to create more unique content, but I'd gladly give those up to make encounters feel like actual fights and less like calculations and timers. Maybe I'm not alone in all of this.

@Verit

You are full of it. I am Australian and my ping is 400ms to 600ms MINIMUM in a raid. I have never needed a mod like AVR. My guild recently started using it and I have been mocking those who use it constantly. I am glad it is gone.

IMO if you use AVRE you may as well just use a bot to run your character.

I think Blizzard just wanted to avoid another Situation like DBM. If you look at most early fights in the game there's not a lot going on with them, mostly because not many people had mods like DBM so you had to do a lot of this stuff manually. Now Blizzard know that almost everyone in a raid will have some mod like DBM so they have to design around it, throwing in more stuff to do in order to keep it reasonably complex.

If they'd let this mod become fully integrated with the community then again they would have had to start designing around it, either by creating incredibly complex boss encounters that will probably exclude those without the mods, or introducing more RNG of insta-splats to simulate difficulty which won't be all that fun.

Regarding DBM: People just used to use stopwatches/timers/whatever and announce things over Vent. Breaking DBM doesn't really hinder players in any that cannot be replicated otherwise.

Thank god this is going away. People depend on this way too much, good thing Blizz is removing it before people get used to it, than we would of had problems.

But, my respect to the developers.

I also only just heard of it, and now it's gone...

Damn, I was looking forwards to installing it so I could draw cocks on other raid members' screens...

This makes sense, AVRE made fights like the Blood Council far too easy ... but it's still going to hurt. I have far too many guildmates who can't get out of the fire/vortex/ooze/whathaveyou unless it's a bright red circle on the ground. Sometimes not even then.

@ Snuzzle

"I never understood why there are so many encounters where you need to be distance x or y away from another player or from point z, but we have no way to measure that."

The reason is simple actually. When was the last time yous stepped outside your home and saw a big yellow circle hovering around a dormant sprinkler, telling you how far the water is going to go, should it start while you walk by? How about in a first person shooter? I don't think I have ever seen a grenade thrown my way tell me whether or not I am at a safe distance or if I am going to have an express trip to a spawn point.

I can understand blizz showing you has a player the radius of an aoe you are about to cast, but surely not that of your enemy's. As to the area covered by your totems, it should be up to the player to know whether or not they are recieving your buff. If they can't figure that out for themselves, then you probably shouldn't be taking them to your raids in the first place.

Good riddance to bad rubbish, IMO.

This mod was just one more step in the direction of making the game a complete joke. I'm not trying to be all elitist or anything here (my guild just downed LK25 last night for the first time, so we're well behind the power curve), but I firmly believe there is some content in the game that *should* remain exclusive and that only the players who put in the most effort and have the greatest skill should be able to accomplish. When you introduce a mod like this, you remove too much player responsibility and awareness. It's getting to the point where you might as well just be watching a movie.

And to people like Snuzzle and Verit: It is not a design flaw at Blizzard that brings these mods about. People will always try to make things easier on themselves. That doesn't mean that things in general (not just WoW) are too hard, it's just human nature. Sometimes things are made too easy to still be considered a challenge. Sure, you can take a helicopter to the top of a mountain, but will anyone really think you're anything special - especially if you claim you "climbed" it? You can take steroids and become a stronger, faster athlete, but it starts to trivialize your accomplishments. The point of removing this mod and preventing future mods like it is to keep some of the challenge in a game that has already been made about 200 times easier in an effort to accommodate more of the player base. And it's about damn time.

AVR made things way too easy.

Only wish blizz would remove Gearscore as well