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5-20-2010 @ 5:37PM
Blizzard seems really weaselly with how they are doing this. They don't have a real clear reason why they aren't allowing it (just that it "not intended".) That's really vague, and doesn't give much guidance to someone who makes a new addon from here out. They don't give any guidance on how this is bad, but the DXE arrow telling you which direction to run is OK. I think it is a bad precedent for Blizzard to handle things this way. If there's a function being used by the addon that they don't want, that's one thing, but to intentionally try to break a specific addon (ala a Bill of Attainder) rubs me the wrong way.
5-20-2010 @ 5:45PM
They've done it before and they'll do it again. And I have no problem with it. If you write addons, and you've been doing it for a while, you should have a decent idea of what they'll allow and what they won't.Point is, it's their game, it's their call.
5-20-2010 @ 5:49PM
"It's their game, their call" is a poor way to run an MMO. It's not an MMO without the MM part. High-handedness runs people off the game. So far, it HAS been easy to figure out what they will and won't allow. If you are using the functions in LUA that are published, you are OK. In the instances in the past where they didn't like where that was taking them (i.e., Decursive) they changed the functions in a way that took away the ABILITY that they had a problem with. This is the first time that I recall where they call out a specific addon without a clear policy on what the allowable and unacceptable parts are.
5-20-2010 @ 5:57PM
"We're making this change for two reasons. The invasive nature of a mod altering and/or interacting with the game world (virtually or directly) is not intended and not something we will allow. World of Warcraft UI addons are never intended to interact with the game world itself. This is mirrored in our stance and restriction of model and texture alterations. The second reason is that it removes too much player reaction and decision-making while facing dungeon and raid encounters. While some other mods also work to this end, we find that AVR and the act of visualizing strategy within the game world simply goes beyond what we're willing to allow. ""Altering and/or interacting with the game world" and "removes too much player reaction and decision-making" seem pretty specific to me.
5-20-2010 @ 6:08PM
And like I said, it is remarkably vague compared to other things like the direction arrows in Carbonite/DXE/Questhelper etc. That's altering and/or interacting with the game world. Like others have pointed out, all the boss mods remove "player reaction and decision-making." The problem isn't that they didn't give reasons. The problem is that they gave reasons that don't really say anything, and more importantly, don't really tell us where the line is IN THE FUTURE.
5-20-2010 @ 6:10PM
And to be clear, I really don't have an opinion on whether Blizz SHOULD have done this. I just don't have enough insight into their thought process to make that decision. I do have an opinion that they are being intentionally evasive on why they are doing this, with a wink and a nod, and THAT is what I have a problem with.
5-20-2010 @ 6:15PM
@PhelpsI don't believe they should have to run every "integrity of the game" decision by the player community first in a democratic way, nor do I believe they should allow any addon at any time no matter what it does. And I don't really buy the argument that it's how they're phrasing their decision that's problematic.In some circumstances, it makes sense to put a fence around your yard.In some circumstances, it makes sense to post a "Keep Dogs Off Lawn" sign.And in some circumstances, when there's just one specific infractor, it makes sense to just tell him hey, I saw what your dog just did, and you'd better pick it up, like, now.
5-20-2010 @ 6:19PM
@GrovinofdarkhourI understand what you are saying. My problem is, this looks like Blizzard has a wide open field with a "DOGS WELCOME" sign in the middle of it, surrounded by dog poop, and they are looking at one guy saying, "not you. Your dog poops too much."
5-20-2010 @ 6:32PM
I think that the difference is fairly explicit. The questhelper arrow isn't being drawn on the landscape. If it literally painted a yellow brick road to your target then Blizz would likely ban it. Similarly DBM is saying "move" whereas AVR is saying "move HERE". The closest I can think of that DBM gets is on Thaddius but even then direction (CW or CCW) required your knowledge and understanding.
5-20-2010 @ 6:33PM
Now that you put it that way, I'll counter:There's no welcome sign; there certainly is a lot of poop, though, giving dog walkers the impression this is an OK spot to do their thing. But the owner's standing there, and he tells this one guy, "sorry, can't let you do that. Your dog's poop actually kills our grass."As in, Blizz feels AVR "breaks the game" or otherwise violates how they intended certain boss fights to go, and when push comes to shove, it is, in fact their lawn.Slowly but surely, we're zeroing in on the perfect metaphor. :)
5-20-2010 @ 9:55PM
>Blizzard seems really weaselly with how they are doing this. They don't have a real clear reason why they aren't allowing it (just that it "not intended".) That's really vague, and doesn't give much guidance to someone who makes a new addon from here out. They don't give any guidance on how this is bad, but the DXE arrow telling you which direction to run is OK. I think it is a bad precedent for Blizzard to handle things this way. If there's a function being used by the addon that they don't want, that's one thing, but to intentionally try to break a specific addon (ala a Bill of Attainder) rubs me the wrong way.<Why do you think they're simply trying to break a specific addon? Because one was named? That's like saying because they give an example of something, they're fine with everybody else who is doing it. However, they're not. All addons that try to use these functions will be broken. If there aren't any...well, oh well, it's still nothing close to what saying it's like a "Bill of Attainder" means.But they quite clearly said: If we find that the AVR mod (or any mod attempting to replicate its functions) are usable after 3.3.5 we will take further, more drastic steps.It's not who. It's what.Well, I suppose it's a who, in the sense of addon authors, but that's another story. Still, AVR is just named by incident, not by purpose. And yes, they did give reasons. They might not be enough for you to be happy, but it's enough to understand it. Which is really just building on other things they've said before regarding alterations to the game world.Try not to make it seem nefarious, it's not.
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