Officers' Quarters: Private channels
by Scott Andrews 
May 24th 2010 at 2:00PM
We've all been there: Someone makes a dumb mistake in a raid -- let's call that person Murbu -- and another player says, "Everyone /join ihatemurbu." A few people do exactly that, a few jokes are exchanged, Murbu shows up in the channel to joke around, too, and then people unjoin or simply forget that channel exists. Private channels like that can be fun for some good-natured ribbing. Other private channels can help two allied guilds communicate or allow a group of friends to stay in touch when they splinter off to different guilds. However, private channels can also have a more sinister purpose. This week, one guild leader is concerned about a channel some of his members are using.
Hello Scott,
I'd like to think I'm relatively new to leading a guild, but as my guild has recently passed our one-year anniversary I'm beginning to question that logic. Despite this, I have an issue that completely stumps me and the only reason I can think of why is inexperience. My question is, when does venting your frustration about issues cross the line from harmless venting to serious problems?
Several months back shortly after the holiday break it came to my attention that a few of the more veteran members of the guild were using a private channel to discuss primarily their dissatisfaction with how I ran things. At the time I also led a majority of our raids, and one major point of contention for the group was the way that I lead the raids and their frustration at our overall progression. This might not have been a huge issue, but several of the people who talked about me in the channel were people I considered close friends, people I've known for years throughout many different guilds.
Since learning about their frustrations I've tried hard to reform a lot of our guild and raid structure to try and reach that magic middle ground where our casual members can have their easy going farm runs and the hardcore players can have their progression. Over the course of the next several months we made huge leaps and bounds of improvements. I did what I could to try and get the guild's officer staff all on one page about everything. I removed myself from raid leading and gave a few others a chance in the spotlight in hopes for improvement. We started separating some of our runs as progression and casual. And for a while, it seemed like everything was looking up.
Recently while we were raiding one of the officers said something to me that made me believe that this whole ordeal isn't quite over yet. I know that the channel still exists and is still in use [. . .]. I know everyone gets frustrated from time to time, and venting your frustrations to your friends can be an easy and great solution to getting over it. I simply feel like I may be taking this too personally as I thought I was a part of that circle, but apparently I'm not. The big dilemma I cannot solve is whether this channel and it's purpose is serving a greater good by allowing them to vent their frustrations while I can ignorantly continue trying to improve our guild, or if it is a sign of growing discontent that I need to address?
Thanks,
Anonymous
First of all, congrats on your one-year anniversary! That's no small feat in WoW these days.
Now, to the matter at hand. I can tell through your careful language here that you feel a bit hurt and betrayed by this channel, particularly since some of your long-time guildmates have been making use of it. That's OK. It's natural to feel that way.
Your initial response to it was quite measured and mature, and you seem to have averted a crisis. Make no mistake: Progression is always a "huge issue" for a raiding guild -- those who believe it isn't are deceiving themselves. Everyone has their own idea about what acceptable progression is. Likewise, everyone has their own threshold for how much progression can stall before it starts to bother them. The hardcore players in your guild will typically have a shorter fuse for this than the casual members. But even casual players have a limit, even if it takes months to get there, where they say "enough is enough." They may just stop raiding rather than leaving the guild altogether, but no one wants to slam into a brick wall indefinitely.
By taking the actions that you did, it seems like you've managed to keep both types of players happy for a while. Guilds that mix both types often struggle with progression and player retention. It sounds like you've been doing pretty well overall.
However, the fact that the channel still exists -- indeed, that it even existed in the first place -- is troubling. I wonder why these players feel like they need to discuss such matters privately? It's problematic that they don't feel comfortable talking about guild issues with you directly.
The first step toward addressing this problem is making sure everyone in the guild knows you are willing to discuss any issue with them. Encourage an atmosphere of open communication. Part of this is detaching your emotional response from your verbal response. When someone comes to you with a criticism of your leadership, you can't let hurt feelings or anger cloud your communication. Even if you strongly disagree with their criticism, you need to respond to them in such a way that promotes future communication. Fortunately, you seem like the kind of person who would be able to handle this.
Part of this encouragement can be direct. You can whisper individual players known to frequent the channel and ask them for input about the guild's current situation. I assume they know you know about the channel. If they don't, you may want to tell them that you know about it and be honest about what you're doing and why. Don't be afraid to say you don't like the fact that this channel exists. They have to understand how such a thing would make someone feel. However, don't demand that they shut it down. That will only encourage them to make a new one, or, even worse, it may force their hand to act on whatever plans they've been discussing, such as taking all the guild's hardcore raiders and forming a new guild.
For the second step, start a thread on your guild's message board laying out some of these concerns that you've been hearing from your players. (Don't say where the criticisms came from -- just acknowledge that such issues have been brought to you.) Explain how you plan to fix those issues. Ask your members to help you. Also, ask for suggestions about other ways to overcome obstacles and improve the guild. Promote honesty, along with respect. Hopefully, you will bring the critical issues out in the open and the guild will be able to have a mature discussion about them.
By doing so, you can rob the private channel of its power. If you can tease out the critical issues into the public realm and give a forum for those players who are unhappy about the guild's state, then the channel will be redundant.
The other problem this channel creates is the cliques of those who belong to it and those who don't. Clique-busting is very difficult. Often, actively trying to break up such a clique just winds up fracturing the guild. A better approach is to create guild events that don't involve raiding. Have contests that involve luck and brain power rather than gear and DPS, and offer prizes that are juicy enough to entice your guild's elite.
When players can mingle in a low-stress situation outside of raiding, they're less likely to focus on differences in skill or attitude and more likely to enjoy one another's company for its own sake. Petty squabbles seem less important. Common ground becomes more apparent. Events like this can boost morale across several fronts. They require time, effort and resources, but they can be well worth it.
Once the issues at hand have been dealt with, the private channel may continue to exist. I don't recommend intervening with it directly. As you say, it can be helpful for players to vent in private from time to time. Thus, it does serve a useful purpose. However, make sure that everyone in the guild is aware, moving forward, that you'd rather confront the guild's problems with direct, open communication. Continue to solicit suggestions every now and then to remind members a.) that you can handle criticism and b.) that you genuinely care about their concerns. Good luck, Anonymous!
On a personal note, a number of people have been asking when and if electronic versions of The Guild Leader's Handbook will be available. You'll be happy to know that an ebook version in multiple formats is now available for download at nostarch.com, along with a print/ebook bundle, should you desire both formats.
/salute
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas and suggestions at scott@wow.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Bith May 24th 2010 2:20PM
We use chat channels to vent frustration, instead of using guild chat. So, while it's not being said here that chat channels are outright bad, we find them as an appropriate place to vent frustration.
Who has 25 perfect raiders? We don't, and our base of selection is limited on our server. That said, sometimes people make us angry and instead of venting AT that person (which hardly ever works), we vent in a chat channel (and the RL/GM happens to be in it b/c she vents like us). It keeps us healthy and unstressed.
Are we clique-ish? No. We're all in the same guild chat and we socialize in guild chat and in raid chat during raids. We are still one team.
Balance is key; don't have topics in which everyone can contribute in the private chat channel unless it really is for a limited audience. We've struck a balance and it's different for everyone.
Happy hunting.
Dave May 24th 2010 2:34PM
I think that the explicit purpose of the channel is the problem, not the existence of it. A separate channel can be great for friends within a guild to share things they may not share with guild chat, but that they don't want to individually whisper.
I consider it akin to sitting next to each other on a team bus/bench. You aren't excluding others, just enjoying each other. The problem comes when you get a seat on the back of the bus with your friends just to talk shit about the captain.
There is always the risk of cliques, but I think they will exist with or without a channel. The channel just facilitates the speed with which a clique can isolate themselves.
In my brief time guild/raid leading, I found that treating cliques as military style units helped take some of the attention off shit talking, and actually improved the efficiency of runs. The guild was very clique-y when I was handed the reins, and I managed to convince 4 of the 'ringleaders' to 'raid assist'. Essentially, they were responsible for their clique, they would grouped together when possible. The ring leaders were responsible for making sure their people had food/flasks/buffs, knew the fights, etc. It cut down on unnecessary chatter(18 people asking for kings, 5 people pointing out everyone without a flask, etc). It is not ideal, but it staved off collapse for a while after the GL left.
Lavoz May 24th 2010 2:32PM
Venting in general is not a bad thing. I know, for example, that I can be quite a difficult person to have in a group as a friend. So, once in a while, I skip out of an evening and let me friends have their own time. And, from other friends, I know that sometimes those evenings are being used to vent frustration and irritations. That's not a bad thing, because on the next meeting, they'll have the frustration discussed and are willing to just have a good time. Same happens in other locations, such as school or a work-environment. It's not bad, as long as it doesn't start feeding more rage. And that's a fine line.
I believe it's up to the people venting to be responsible and decide that venting time is over, and the time is there to get on and improve. Venting is not solving problems, just releasing tension.
Luftwaffles May 25th 2010 11:37PM
It seems like the GM has taken a very logical, tolerant approach to solving his guild's issues so far. So why then do these angry members not feel comfortable bringing their complaints to his attention?
Yes venting is good, but it sounds like these guys may be destructive for it's own sake. It's entirely possible they have no desire to be cooperative or try to fix things. Like Lavoz above said, part of responsibility is with the angry member(s) saying "ok thats enough, now I will try to improve the situation." It doesn't sound like thats what these guys want necessarily.
Hunterlicious May 24th 2010 2:37PM
If that GL watches The Guild, he may channel his inner Vork and embrace the fact that what unifies the guild is his guildmates' uniform hatred of him... ;-)
I think the suggestion of creating a space where the guild members can report their concerns and expectations will help minimize the impact of the private chat channel. If the GL is honestly trying to address grievances, I'd hope the majority of the guild's members would realize that ongoing complaining on the private channel is really QQ'ing. That being said... there is always a group of people who band together because they like to complain. I'm betting that the private channel would exist regardless of whom the GL was. Hopefully creating that feedback space will weed out the legitimate concerns from the drama seekers.
Leelad May 24th 2010 2:39PM
I don't run a guild and have had no experience in doing so but I'd do in game as I would out...ask.
If the officers/members has a problem with you or you suspect so the damage is already done and asking what you have done wrong would be the best way to put your fears to rest. Join the channel ask what the problem is in a way that allows discussion and not abuse throwing.
You might find that the channel is nothing
more than a legacy place where those you had a problem share daft injokes.
Gimmlette May 24th 2010 2:39PM
One thing that struck me was who is paying for the chat server and who has admin rights to it. I agree that, at this time, shutting it down is tantamount to breaking up your guild. But the fact that it exists is troubling to me.
I run the Vent server and I have admin rights to it. I've sent up a number of rooms where people can go including a few that are password protected. Last year, when my guild went through a very rocky patch, I noticed some people going to one particular room. When asked if there was something wrong, they said, "No, they just wanted to talk with their friends and not in the lobby." While they weren't doing anything subversive, their unwillingness to join in general conversation isolated them and made them seem like an exclusive group.
Eventually, they would log onto Vent and immediately go into what was turning into "their" chat channel. Other people felt unwelcome in that channel even if they were running with this group. I finally told them I was going to have to shut it down because it was dividing the guild. They decided they wanted something different than what we offered and left.
The only private chat rooms my Vent server has are one for officers and one for 18 and older chat. Everyone knows this and this cuts down on "private" chats.
I think the key is to make sure everyone in the guild knows they can come to you about anything, whether it's your leadership or someone's bad play or ideas they have for raids, and you'll listen to them and consider what they say. It seems to me you have done a great job of being sensitive to concerns and that's made you a better guild. If you make it clear your ear is always open to guild members those people with an axe to grind won't find too many interested in listening to them and there's no reason to be chatting in a private chat room.
Docrev May 24th 2010 2:57PM
The channel they're talking about isn't a room in a Vent server. They're talking about private chat channels created within the WoW client.
Freedom May 24th 2010 4:23PM
When I created my vent server, I've excluded personal private channels to avoid this very issue of clique-ishness. It's worked wonderfully well, and I take pride in knowing I've helped cultivate an atmosphere where everyone would be welcome in all channels. You can peek at our vent channel setup on latecrew.net
Gimmlette May 24th 2010 4:29PM
@Docrev. I completely missed that it was about private chat channels using the in-game client. My ultimate point about a guild leader being open to all comments still stands. If the GL indicates they will listen to someone, even if it is criticism about them, there is no need of a private channel.
@Freedom. Since I control who is allowed to set up chat channels in Vent, there are no private channels save for the one for officers and the one for 18-years old an up. Other than when we really are dealing with guild business, we rarely use the officer channel. If people want to talk to me privately, I will take them there. Since that one group left, we've not had a problem with people talking privately to the exclusion of others. I won't say that people don't gripe and complain, it's a human quality. But I hope everyone feels that they can come to me with an issue, even if it's "You suck" and know they will be heard.
SloBash May 24th 2010 2:52PM
It's healthy. You'll find in life that people always have something negative to say about the way things are run by someone else, be it a parent, employer etc. Venting that negativity gets it out of their system, most of the time it's not constructive it's just venting. It's a bit like having a little jibe at someone behind their back at work.
Is it something serious enough to confront them about? No. Is it something that seriously needs fixing? No. But it's something that got your back up a little and you need to have a little rant about it to someone. If you had to do it in front of them you probably wouldn't. It's constructive for your players to have some way to just let out their frustrations.
Generally it's not a reflection on how bad you're doing things, it's just little niggles. Don't take it personally, just think of it as a tool in paving the way to a happier raid and guild chat :)
Rob May 24th 2010 2:59PM
I guess being a benevolent dictator sucks. As GL i've gone through a few of these issues. Sometimes the best thing is just to talk it out directly.
When I was a member in my raid guild, the hunters formed a hunter channel and it really solidified us as a group. We looked out for each other, critiqued our performance, etc. Far more than other classes did. It was pretty painful to stop raiding with them when RL interveneed
We've also had some cliques form, decide they hated our guild/me/whatever, and split the guild. It's a thorny problem, if you try to intervene it will cause drama, and you may save the guild. If you don't intervene, it may be that nothing becomes of it.
Nowadays I probably would not do anything. If the clique moves on, then they move on. There isn't much you can do about it. You can try to figure out what the issue was and solve it, but if they have issues, but don't talk to anyone outside their group, then don't feel bad when they leave. Guilds are very free-floating after all, they grow large, they explode in drama, they shrink, they rise up again.
BigBadGooz May 24th 2010 3:00PM
Or ninja the gbank xfer servers and show those ahold who's boss. Yea don't go that route I suggest accepting the fact nobody will always agree with raid leading and that will never change. If you are going to be the raid or guild leader you must be exactly that. Members who join a guild must understand that leadership does things for certain reasons because they should know what the raid comp is capeable of.
Steve May 24th 2010 3:25PM
To me it sounds like you are being mature and your officers aren't. I understand the need to vent your problems but if I had an issue with the GL I would go straight to them and talk about it. The private channel where all they do is bash the GL solves nothing if they won't address it in the first place. IMO make them run the guild if they think they can do it better.
Emarzan May 24th 2010 3:45PM
Trust is the key thing in these situations. We had similar issues in my guild for quite a while - a guild I inherited from a GM who could not take critique. Whenever people didn't agree with his decisions (apart from the Officer team), they were "ungreatfull", "whiners" and some other less flattering words as well.
Don't get me wrong, he wasn't a bad guy, but people couldn't talk to him. Everything had to go through the officer team.
When the top spot dropped down in my lap, I worked hard and long to change this, and at this time I have mostly done so. People know that they are allowed to disagree with me, and when they do bring something up, I will listen. Sure, sometimes my answer is as simple as a short "no, not gonna happen" - and sure we still have dissagreements, and have lost people to it in the past, but that the way things are. You can't please everyone, but you can let everyone give their opinion.
Make sure that people trust you, and seriously listen and consider what they say - and make it known that you do that - and you will avoid the talk behind your back.
A word of warning though - this will make you face the disagreements right now, and might cause both drama and clashes, but in my experience it's better to deal with it now instead of pretending it doesn't exist. That tend to cause less drama in the long run.
ambermist May 24th 2010 4:18PM
I'm not usually a fanboi (girl?), but I agree with everything Scott said, especially about throwing up a post on the forums. Every long-standing guild has THOSE THREADS. You know the ones: they're 15 pages long and everyone has an opinion (our Lich King strat thread made it to 18 pages before we killed him, I think). If you can steer those types of threads in a healthy direction (i.e., not letting people get carried away with gripes or emotions), then they sometimes turn out to be the best thing that ever happened.
I kind of think of it like wringing out all of the frustration, questions, and negative energy so you can start fresh.
As for chat channels, no one here said chat channels are bad. We have LOTS in our guild. One for almost every class and then three collective channels for healing, dps, and tanking. There are things I say in one channel or the other that I might not necessarily say in raid chat, but they are vents: momentary bursts of frustration that I generally forget happened by the time the night's over.
Having a chat channel just to complain about your raid leader is a little too specific, though. If you're THAT dissatisfied, you need to confront the leader or start your own guild.
To Anonymous Guild Master, though; you sound like you have a good head on your shoulders. I think you're headed in the right direction. One thing Scott didn't mention, though, is that if the worst happens (someone or a few people leave), don't blame yourself. There are times when someone just doesn't fit the guild they're in, and it's okay for them to find a new one if all they're doing is bringing the rest of the guild down. Good luck to you!
Kaid May 24th 2010 4:35PM
I've seen the private channel work both ways, both inclusive and exclusive. One guild I was in announced a special channel for guildies above a certain rank...the idea being that there would be a special pseudo-officers chat for those who weren't necessarily officers.
Having just come from a guild where officer ranks were handed out like candy, resulting in a very strong division between the "officer" clique and "the other half", I thought this would be potentially quite divisive. This wasn't helped by the fact that the powers that be in the guild didn't seem inclined to explain exactly what the criteria of being invited to the special chat channel were.
In my current guild at the start of Wrath, we had a raiding alliance with a chat channel shared between two guilds. It was used for fun off-topic chat that did not necessarily belong in raid chat. It remained, and if anything became livelier, after our alliance was dissolved. It even stayed in place when one of the guilds did a quiet burnout-fuelled implode, losing most of the active members. Many of the people who drifted off to other guilds or went guildless still remain in the channel. There's no real restriction on who uses it, and it operates perfectly. In fact at times it's considerably livelier than guild chat.
theRaptor May 24th 2010 5:32PM
The semi-anonymous nature of the Internet allows people to express feelings and opinions that they would never express face-to-face. IMO these sorts of bitching channels only encourage that, and don't serve to vent frustration but to spread it and grow it.
If you are pissed off go vent to someone IRL*. If you have constructive criticism then you might discuss it in private before talking to the guild leader. Just venting to a clique every time something pisses you off isn't healthy and doesn't foster group integrity.
And I say this as a very "ranty" person who used to do this. All I did was build myself up into a rage and it served no useful purpose.
* Studies have shown that "venting anger" only serves to increase anger and doesn't release it like it was some form of energy. Talking about how to solve real problems is good and healthy, plain old bitching isn't.
BubblePriest May 24th 2010 7:56PM
I'm sure you're right about the studies, but I know from personal experience I have felt better after just plain complaining.
For example: There is a person in my guild I dislike through no fault of their own. Their personality and mine are simply incompatible. Because I recognized that the person had done nothing wrong per se, I did not voice my frustration with them, but started avoiding situations where I knew I would encounter them (namely, raid nights they signed up for). However, it became apparent to me that another person in my guild felt the same way about the person. Being able to whisper someone about my irritation allowed me to get through raids without saying something regrettable to the person I dislike.
Sometimes as human beings we realize our dislikes, irritations, annoyance are irrational. (Well at least the more self-aware among us realize this.) But it does not mean that they do not still grate on us. Being able to share these irrational feelings does help keep our feelings in check. However, discussing something in an official capacity (i.e. with a guild officer) when the problem is on our end is understandably unappealing. For this reason, I think that a vent channel of some sort is a worthwhile place to blow off steam, regardless of what the studies may indicate.
Moeru May 24th 2010 6:37PM
I've felt before that some of my guild members were talking to me behind my back, when a ton of officers cornered mid-raid and demanded to talk about progression issues, so far as to ask to cancel the raid.
If they had been longtime, hardworking officers I might have yielded. But all of them hadn't been working hard, and most of them hadn't been officers for a week. The fact that they all tried to bring the issue up at once mid-raid made it feel like I was being ganged up on, and that they planned it beforehand.
My history with officers is a rocky one. It seems no one really wants any kind of responsibility when they play WoW nowadays. Or maybe it's just my server. It just feels until Guilds can offer more than guild bank privileges, it's going to be hard to keep members in guilds when they can easily pug ICC raids, where they have no strings attached and they can be as good or as bad (performance and attitude wise) as they want.