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5-25-2010 @ 1:50PM
After doing our LK attempts last night, our Resto Shaman made an important point: some people are waiting until the next buff before they get serious about pushing themselves to get the LK down. Instead of "oh we wiped, how can we improve" its "its okay guys, we'll get the LK next week with the buff".An unintended consequence of the buff, sure but a really annoying one.
5-25-2010 @ 2:09PM
As a raid leader, I completely agree. Most of our raiders aren't like this, but we have one who consistently states that it is clearly Blizzard's intention that fights can't be done without the buff, etc.Now, I'm willing to go with this for hard modes -- the fact that Blizzard's encounter designers admitted to never getting past Yogg +3, much less down to Yogg +0 when testing encounters, means that there is some evidence that encounter designers are not able to tune the top end content precisely, so having the ICC buff to turn that knob is useful. (See also: No 10 man strict guilds have cleared H LK yet, even with the 15% buff.)However, 10-man strict guilds cleared ICC 10 to LK -- even without 25-man gear -- in the first month it was available. The fact that we haven't downed LK yet is not because we need to wait for another buff. At the time, the fight in question was Sindragosa, and the reason we were wiping was because we need to get better at not chaining frost tombs, standing where we were supposed to, running out of blistering cold, etc.Using the coming buffs as an excuse to not improve your playing is annoying and frustrating, and I hate that people do it.
5-25-2010 @ 2:11PM
I dunno, it had the opposite effect on our group. We had the attitude of 'c'mon lets get it down before it gets nerfed more'. We pushed to get Sindra down this week and had a couple of 'test-the-waters' attempts on the lich king. Shame we won't see him down before 20% buff but if we get it before it hits 30% i'll be happy.
5-25-2010 @ 2:17PM
You get the same effect with gear "oh we need to wait to gear more people up" even if the boss is easily beatable with the raids current level of gear.
5-25-2010 @ 2:44PM
theRaptor: Absolutely, you do. That's always bugged me too. However, that excuse has actually gone mostly out the window at this point -- for normal 10-man ICC, there is relatively little significant upgrading left for any of my players before we down the Lich King and open up heroics to our group. This has been mostly true for at least a month already, and we didn't start actively raiding ICC until about 2 months ago. I doubt this is an unusual situation -- the length of time where 'more gearz!' is an excuse is a much shorter period of time than the period of time attached to this increasing buff.
5-25-2010 @ 4:29PM
Why? Why is it annoying? How does it affect your gameplay? Is it because you can't stand the idea that someone else that you've deemed unworthy will have the Kingslayer title? Do you feel that this somehow cheapens yours?Or is just that people that either can't, or chose not to, play at quite the level you do will get to see content they wouldn't otherwise?From where I sit, it kinda sounds petty. This buff isn't going to let the completely incompetent past Deathwhisper. That fight will stop them cold, because, 20% buff or not, a lack of coordinated effort in that encounter will get you killed. Even if they manage to get past that, and get through Saurfang, when they run into Festergut, the 20% improvement to their 3K DPS translates to 3.6K, which is still way, way below the required 5K average they're going to need to push him over.Of course, the group that *will* make it will be the one with the 3K DPS who's trying his damnedest to help out the 7 perfectly competent players who belong to a guild that can't, for love or money, recruit enough decent people to take out Putricide. They've been trying to pug enough decent talent for weeks on end, and this 20% might be enough to let them down Plague. Those 7 maybe don't meet the exacting standards of a top-tier guild, or maybe they can't devote more than 2 days a week to the effort. *Those* are the guys this is helping.What I find annoying is that people are bitching about a buff that helps someone else in the game, with no real cost to themselves. They're just bugged by the *idea*.
5-25-2010 @ 4:41PM
What are you on about Glaras? This has nothing to do with picking on the "unwothy". It is bitching about people in YOUR OWN RAID who won't put in the effort because it will be slightly* easier in a few weeks**. If a not-so-good group gets a new boss down because of the buff yah for them, but that isn't what this thread was about. * And it is freaking LK which isn't some tank and spank that comes down to the enrage timer. I really doubt the "lets wait" people are consistently coming to within a few percent of downing him and wiping.** And as it is always slightly easier in a few weeks due to gear upgrades you can use this argument to avoid ever doing anything ever unless you completely outgear it.
5-25-2010 @ 5:13PM
Glaras, I think you hit the wrong reply. None of the people in this thread are upset at the buff. (It's the only reason my casual guild is getting as far as we are, I'm sure.) We are upset by the attitude of "It's not worth improving, I'll just wait for the buff to go up." If that's your attitude, that's fine, but I'm here to try to improve my skills and the skills of the other people I run with, not here to sit and wait another 4 weeks until Blizzard buffs up some arbitrary numbers that have relatively little effect on the outcome of an encounter.
5-26-2010 @ 6:14AM
With us it was the opposite (similiar to a posted earlier), we had a huge push to try and kill lichy before the increased buff.As it happens he went down on the last try of the evening, after not getting much into phase three the whole evening.
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