Breakfast Topic: How realms evolve (or don't)
by Allison Robert 
May 28th 2010 at 8:00AM
As you'd expect, player feelings on the subject were mixed, but there was one former Drak'thul player who really got my attention. Drak'thul, he/she claimed, had been home to some of "the most mean-spirited PvP (he'd) ever experienced on ANY realm." It sounded like a tall claim, but there are a lot of other threads on the forum with oblique confirmations; players recall Alliance towns and quest NPCs "being camped 24/7," and holiday events and Alliance leveling zones being swarmed by opportunistic Horde players. Drak'thul became a low-pop server with a murderous faction imbalance -- Warcraft Realms listed the server's active population as 94% Horde before transfers were opened -- and I wonder how much of that be traced to the relentless ganking and camping campaigns three years ago.
I look at realms like Cho'gall with equally crushing faction imbalances, some of which started out with fairly balanced faction ratios, and wonder -- how the hell does this happen? What spurs the departure of so many players from a specific faction? Is it really that simple as a relatively small number of players exercising such an impact on what happens to everyone on the server?
Filed under: Breakfast Topics
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 7)
Fletcher May 28th 2010 8:05AM
I can't help but notice that in both the cases you mentioned, the imbalance is in favour of the Horde. I can think of a few explanations - Horde players like to be TOUGH RAWR and bully people, the Horde is better at PVP, the Horde races have better racials for PVP - but none of them are necessarily correct in this case, or necessarily correct at all. Are there any examples of servers drastically imbalanced in favour of the Alliance? If so, do they have a different feel to gank-happy Cho'gall and Drak'thul?
dude May 28th 2010 8:12AM
Why yes. Lightbringer. Horde is hopelessly outmatched. They own wg maybe once a week. The bg sucks but on lightbringer itself. Alliance rules
Shionia May 28th 2010 8:15AM
"Is it really that simple as a relatively small number of players exercising such an impact on what happens to everyone on the server?"
Possibly. I can say that in the two years that I played alliance on a relatively balanced server, I never once had Horde interfere with lowbie quests. It wasn't until I rolled some Horde toons on that same server that I encountered the sort of lowbie griefing that makes it almost impossible to quest.
Wyred May 28th 2010 8:20AM
Horde have better pvp racials? Really? Last I checked the human racial was by far the best.
Fletcher May 28th 2010 8:28AM
Okay, perhaps I could have phrased that better. "Horde racials are more offensively focused - stuns, silences, beserk et cetera - than Alliance racials, which tend to be more defensive, such as Escape Artist or Stoneform". I certainly won't dispute that the human racial is head and shoulders above anything else in PVP terms.
Darky May 28th 2010 8:45AM
Dath'Remar, i heard you like 10 tenacity?
MazokuRanma May 28th 2010 9:11AM
I think you could argue there may be a 'Might makes right' philosophy on the Horde side. I've rolled both Alliance and Horde toons myself, and I can say that on my Alliance toons, I never feel any strong desire to gank people. On the other hand, when I play my Orc or Tauren Horde-side, I often find myself thinking I should go crush that dwarf/gnome/etc. It just feels like the giant orc should be bashing skulls. I don't actually follow through on these desires, but I imagine a large part of that is having been on the receiving end of ganking and hating the philosophy. I just wanted to point out that, for myself at least, playing certain races actually helps create the PvP mindset.
I think I should point out actually that the one Alliance toon I have that I have to fight this urge on is a human rogue. The stealth component makes ganking seem almost acceptable. I can't actually follow through though; I feel like the biggest coward ever when I attack from stealth. I'm pretty much the worst PvP rogue ever...
Jorges May 28th 2010 10:21AM
"I can think of a few explanations - Horde players like to be TOUGH RAWR and bully people, the Horde is better at PVP"
I Agree with this. The whole horde setting sets the mood for pvp. The only place that doesn't feel at war and is actually peaceful is Thunderbluff and Maybe Silvermoon City, but htose places are deserted most of the time. So, it's not hard to feel the need for pvp, even if you're not on to it.
Also, oddly enough, Horde are generally very organized in BGs, something we alliance lack unless it is a premade. But in world PvP, Horde players like to gank lowie towns, try to futily assault cities or have random pvp here and there. Good city defenders.. or better put, good Orgrimmar defenders lol. But terrible attackers.
On my server, and specially in my guild, we have horde alts. We send some guildies to attack cities, just to activate the LD messages. Send spies with horde alts, and report false intelligence about "oh no, it's a pack of 20 - 25 Alliance, they just Killed me!". Soon you see the message "EVERYONE DEFEND THRALL"... 10 mins later Sylvanas is dead :P
I guess the same could be applied to Alliance cities, most of us are hanging around Stormwind or Ironforge. Darnassus is not deserted, but there's mostly lowies there. Exodar.. it's a dead place. I don't know why Horde players don't exploit that (5 - 10 players is not exploiting the opening), even more when we see the LD active and we only say "oh well... let them have their fun."
Sorry, I think I'm still hyped for my Guild's assault to Horde Cities last night ^^'. But yeah, PvP and BGs are great for filling the gap between expansions.
Zuljo May 28th 2010 10:45AM
The Sha'tar-EU is a bit heavy on the alliance side. Up until recently, Horde would only ever have WG at rediculously unsocial hours, or get it once a week during peak times when the whole balance thing got so over the top that there was no way in hell that we could lose it (yeah, I'm horde). Although, things seem to be evening out on the whole wintergrasp thing as of late.
Filters May 28th 2010 11:08AM
@Darky
Wait... what? Only 10 stacks of tenacity? The alliance on The Forgotten Coast constantly have at least 20 stacks every single wintergrasp.
Snuzzle May 28th 2010 11:14AM
I don't think Horde simply like to be tough, I think it's more that there tends to be more Horde loyalty and pride than there is Alliance pride. When you combine that with a PvP mindset or tendency, it can get pretty ugly.
Think about it. How often do you see/hear people shouting 'FOR THE ALLIANCE!" versus "FOR THE HORDE!"? In the forums, in game... heck even sometimes at real life WoW meetings. Ever seen the response from the crowd at Blizzcon when the person on stage asks how many Horde players there are? They respond with intensity and enthusiasm.
When I meet people in real life who play Horde, we often end up keeping in touch. There are a lot of proud smiles as people announce their main is an orc shaman or tauren warrior. When I meet people who play Alliance, they kind of casually mention gnome mage or human priest... you know, whatever. I could be way off base here, but that's just what I've experienced. There is, I think, a greater sense of camaraderie and kinship between Horde players than between Alliance players.
It's not that the people who play Alliance are nicer or less apt to ganking. Some of the biggest jerks I've met have been Alliance... even on a PvE realm. I still remember the human paladin who continually ganked my quest mob, and when I made a level 1 Ally to ask him why started spewing "You're Horde, I'm Alliance, we're enemies and I can't let you complete the quest."
It's that most, I think, simply don't care enough about their faction to get as much into it. When you have lot of pride in the faction you play, you're more apt to defend it, or even go out of your way to show how much better you are than the other guys (ie, with the 24/7 town camping). That's not to say it's right... it's not. I'm a complete carebear and not afraid to admit it. It's just the way I see it.
Hoggersbud May 28th 2010 11:15AM
>Also, oddly enough, Horde are generally very organized in BGs
My last three days worth of battlegrounds say you're wrong.
And no, we weren't facing premades all the time.
I've played both factions, I see no difference in their battleground behavior worth noting.
All I see from these examples here is that the writer chose two examples based on his or her knowledge, and as it is two servers out of dozens...I wouldn't take anything from that.
Nagaina May 28th 2010 11:22AM
Cenarion Circle US is heavily Alliance-tilted -- 67% Alliance to 33% Horde -- an in some cases it definitely shows in fairly egregious behavior, in my not so humble opinion. Memorable occasions? Once the Alliance decided to camp Orgrimmar. Not 'camp Thrall until his respawn timer reset' but 'camp the entire city of Orgrimmar for several hours, making it useless to lowbie Horde players attempting to quest and a serious irritation to high level Horde players attempting to do anything at all.' They killed everything -- the bankers, the auctioneers, the merchants, Thrall -- and kept them dead. For almost *three hours.* At peak server time. On those rare occasions that the Horde manages to win Wintergrasp, retaliatory raids on Horde capitals and questing hubs are fairly regular sights.
Jorges May 28th 2010 1:59PM
@ Hoggersbud
/quote
>Also, oddly enough, Horde are generally very organized in BGs
My last three days worth of battlegrounds say you're wrong.
/quote
Hmmm.. did you even read the word "generally"? As in, "NOT always", "usually", "most of the time"?
> All I see from these examples here is that the writer chose two examples based on his or her knowledge, and as it is two servers out of dozens...I wouldn't take anything from that.
Exactly. At least in my Battlegroup (and that includes more than 2 servers) the Horde is GENERALLY better organized.
Shrike May 28th 2010 2:42PM
@Snuzzle
"Think about it. How often do you see/hear people shouting 'FOR THE ALLIANCE!" versus "FOR THE HORDE!"?"
It's all about the battlecry.
http://bootybay.supermegatopia.com/booty/gallery/gallery.php?thisLink=battle-cries.jpg
(This comic SFW, other comics in the gallery are NSFW)
Hoggersbud May 28th 2010 2:44PM
>Hmmm.. did you even read the word "generally"? As in, "NOT always", "usually", "most of the time"?<
And you'd think in those three days I'd see some indication of it being true. Ever.
I haven't.
I see people make these claims about "Horde are more X" or "Alliance are less Y" and I generally find them to be more based on whatever the person is experiencing at the time than an impartial review of the evidence.
So what may be true for you, may not be true for me, and I don't think any of us users have the perspective to go very far with what we do see.
Glaras May 28th 2010 3:42PM
US-Suramar has a slight Alliance tilt. It is typical that in WG, the Horde has between 4 and 12 Tenacity.
I have leveled toons to 80 on both sides, and I do spend some time in BGs. In our battlegroup, I find (hilariously) that both sides invariably say that the other side wins more often, is better organized, or cheats. And both sides (the Horde less often) will have at least one person in the BG whose role, apparently, is to tell us how much we suck.
Outside the BGs, ganking behavior goes both ways. I have seen 80's from both sides camp lowbie areas, slaughtering questgivers repeatedly. Trying to level in Crossroads is always an exercise in patience, as there's often a couple Alliance 80's standing in the middle of town 1-shotting everything in sight. Likewise, South Shore is frequently targeted, which causes retaliation against Tarren Mill.
But to the author's point: I think the imbalances happen very much like you describe.
Joey2250 May 28th 2010 5:17PM
FOR PONY!
Kurtis May 28th 2010 6:21PM
I'm not sure that ganking lowbies is exclusively a Horde behavior. On one of my realms the two factions are fairly balanced, but pretty much any time of the day or night you can count on a high-level Alli or two camping the Crossroads. Yet my Alliance toons on that realm haven't seen (consistent) similar behavior anywhere in their travels.
merindab May 29th 2010 11:28AM
@Nagaina I'm on Norgannon and we once had a level 80 ally camping in Thunder Bluff for *hours*. Ganking the Auctioneers, the FP (the FP especially drove me nuts) and couldn't get anyone to help
Then again i just looked and We've got 65/35 split in favor of the Alliance. No wonder we always lose WG.