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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsOfficers' Quarters: Mailbox roundup
by Scott Andrews 
May 31st 2010 at 1:00PM
Here at Officers' Quarters I receive a number of e-mails every week that don't get featured in the column. Sometimes they are too personal and the sender requests that they do not appear on the site. Others are topics I've already addressed. Some are questions that don't require a long and detailed response and thus don't have quite enough depth to merit an entire column. This week I am featuring a few of these latter e-mails with the common theme of loot. If you think the topic requires more discussion than I've given it, tell us about it below!
Culling the Strong
Scott,
I am a part of a raiding guild which has been having a lot of growing pains. I have been with this guild for several years and many of the new players that we get are very poor players in general. I can often out dps someone in my same class running with my spec who has better gear. My guild has a loot policy which gears the lower dps players first in an effort to help progression, even if they have better overall gear than me.
I have decided to start looking for another guild and wanted to know if it is ok to stay in my guild while applying to another guild so I can still raid or if I should leave now so that I do not take badges and gear that could go to helping out the guild I am in?
Anonymous
I can sum up this loot policy in two words: rewarding failure. I don't blame you for leaving. If you're definitely going to gquit, the honest thing to do is to tell your officers that you are applying to other guilds. You could even do them a favor and tell them why, so they understand that their policies are pushing quality players out. Say this in private so you don't stir up public drama. Then let them decide if they want you in raids until you leave or if they want you to pack your bags immediately.
If you're undecided about leaving, then it may be better to keep your applications private for now and only reveal your intention to quit once you've made that decision. Keep in mind, however, that some guilds check rivals' websites to see if their players are app'ing around. If you get caught this way, you should expect a negative reaction. In the meantime, what you do about loot depends on the system. If you have unspent DKP that you've earned, you have the right to spend it. If your guild just rolls for loot, you may want to pass on items that other players want.
Good luck finding a new guild!
A Helpful Guild
Scott,
I just yesterday had a problem with my guild that I've been very happy with, I got Battered Hilt out of Forge of Souls and announced my happiness in guild chat. I was asked if I was going to sell it *they go for 8k-10k on my server* I said Hell yes I'm going to. While shouting in Trade Chat a guildie on an alt character messaged me and asked if I would sell it to him, I gave him a discount of 6000 as everyone in trade chat was shouting with me saying 10k. Later that day GM and several other core raid members starting yelling at me because I "Sold" the item instead of giving it for free and how "we are a helpful guild" and I was being a douchebag for not giving it to the person for free. How he has limited internet and can't do raids with us and how I should have been nicer to give it to him for free.
As they were yelling at me and calling me all sorts of unpleasant things they invite me to group for our normal ICC raid night. Is it me, should I have given it to them for free? Confused and not sure what to do, stay in guild with people I've had a blast with in vent, or move to another guild I have friends with and get to another guild and become another core member. They say that the whole reason they are pissed is because I sold it to him and should have given it for free, but he messaged me offering to buy it not the other way around, he's been in guild since the beginging and should have known "guildies give for free" as I've only been in like 3 weeks.
I think you got a pretty raw deal here. You've only been in the guild for a few weeks. You can't be expected to know the guild's culture yet. When a member approaches you offering to buy something from them, how are you supposed to know that such things are frowned on? Is this policy in writing somewhere?
Certainly you could have asked an officer before selling, but I don't think that's something anyone would normally do for a private transaction between guild members. Furthermore, you did sell it for less than market price on your server, so it's not like you were trying to take advantage of the buyer.
If they won't drop the issue and you'd like to remain in this guild, I'd recommend offering to return the money. It's not worth 6000 gold to be the focal point for abuse. However, such an over-the-top reaction is not an indication of a happy future for this guild or your place in it. Thus, you may want to shop around for a community that's a bit less judgmental.
For the officers involved, I would recommend setting down your policies and making sure new members are aware of them rather than resorting to guilt trips and name-calling.
The Abyss Gazes Also
Scott,
I'm the only officer in a guild that's falling apart, our guild leader along with several officers have left/are leaving the guild. A couple days before things started to unravel, I'd talked to the guild leader and told him that if the guild was going to fall apart that I was going to take the abyss crystals I helped put in the guild bank. I was told by him that it was ok, so when things started to fall apart i took the crystals I put in the bank as I was the official disenchanter for our raids.
I was later asked by a former officer of the guild why I took the items and was called a ninja. My question is should I put them back in the guild bank with no idea what's going to happen to them or should I keep them. As it stands there's a member of the guild that's wanting to become the new guild leader but I'm still uncertain of the right actions to take there
Uncertain officer
Hi, UO. I'm wondering why you feel like you have a personal claim to those crystals. Is it just because you DE'ed them? Your guildmates worked just as hard to down those bosses, so in my opinion they belong to the guild, not you. Your former guild leader apparently thought differently, and he's entitled to do so.
Regardless, I don't think it's fair to call you a ninja. You asked for the crystals from the person in charge at the time and you acted on the answer you were given. You did not steal them or obtain them through deception.
A better solution, if the guild does disband, would be to distribute the crystals evenly among the remaining raiding members. If the guild survives, the crystals should remain in the bank for member use (including you, if you stay). Either way, allowing one player to take them all isn't the right way to handle the situation as far as I'm concerned.
/salute
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas, and suggestions at scott@wow.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
Danterius May 31st 2010 2:56PM
Honestly, I think the Battered Hilt should be considered an AH roll. Most of the players that win the roll, I would imagine, sell it instead of actually using it, for two main reasons.
One, weapons are extremely accessible in ICC. And two, 10k is quite simply rather expensive for a 251 weapon. One could do a gdkp and get a 264 weapon for half that price.
Also, from personal experience, the two times I've seen it drop, all 5 players rolled Need, and the players that won already had 251+ weapons equipped and simply sought to sell the Hilt.
noel mcleod May 31st 2010 4:01PM
@zdave - Uhhh - you may be right, but raiding takes a huge time commitment and some of us have RL responsibilities that prevent us raiding. Does that mean we should never get Phat Lewtz? I work a 60 hour week and have a teen-aged daughter (now SHE has time to raid) and have other commitments besides, you sound like you have a lot of life still to experience.
vazhkatsi May 31st 2010 5:18PM
whereas you dont deserve loot any less than a raider, i believe his point is that if you dont raid at all you don't really need a 251 weapon. you don;t actually need any more than the usual epics and blues to do anything other than raid, so everyone has an equal claim to it.
theRaptor May 31st 2010 7:26PM
@noel mcleod
My guilds farm runs can get 8/12 ICC-10 in three hours*. In two hours in a bad pug you should at least be able to do the first four. If 2-3 hours a week is too much of a time commitment you should re-think why you are wasting money on WoW. Plenty of free to play MMOs out there that will give you a lot more fun if you don't have that amount of time.
And I agree with zdave about how easy it is to gear for raiding with the ICC 10 mans. My rogue has been 80 for a day and I could take it into Ulduar or ToC with similarly geared people and manage to full clear.
* Where I as a 5.5k GS Shadow Priest top the DPS meters. We aren't uber-geared or skilled or anything.
theRaptor May 31st 2010 7:31PM
Also I remember doing ToC-10 in 45 minutes a few weeks after it came out. ToC-25 doesn't take much longer. It is only progression raiding that sucks time out of your life.
emberdione May 31st 2010 1:41PM
The battered hilt thing:
First off, they have *no* right to say who you should/can sell your items to. You won the hilt and deserved every penny of the sale. The fact you discounted it means you should have been getting praised, not yelled at.
My guild has a "do for guildies free, if possible" but no one in their right mind would hand over a hilt. (They also sell for 10-12k on my server.) We give away enchants, we stock pile mats like crusader orbs, and we have even bought a primordial saronite or two for our main tank. But when on a GUILD run of PoS and the hilt dropped it was STILL every man for himself. We know each other. We all work at the same company. We are all friends in real life and when the rogue won the hilt, he turned right around and offered it to the GM AT COST (10k) with the agreement the GM could pay over time, instead of all at once. The GM accepted (he had been farming it for a few weeks) and it took him 3 weeks to pay the rogue, but he paid every penny, and happily. And many of us even thought it was cool of him to sell it on the low end to our GM instead of the high end price.
Your loot, your call. But at the end of the day you should only help as much as you are comfortable, and NOT by someone else's measure. Plus if the dude was willing to pay for it, then they should just shut it. It was between you and him, not the guild.
Marita May 31st 2010 1:42PM
I wouldn't have sold the Battered Hilt :P
But some people have other weapons and can afford the sell.
As for the guildies reaction, it was uncalled for.
If that player was in such trouble, then they should let every member know that X item will be his when it drops.
But I think they're not transparent, and this player should change guild.
Rob May 31st 2010 1:44PM
I really don't get the concept that you are supposed to give 10k items to people you don't really know for free. Obviously if they are close friends, sure, give it to them. But TBH my close friends in game, i'd give them 10k for it if I wanted that item. It's just fair.
Also we need to realize that we are at the end of the xpac (or nearing it), so sell what you can like abyssals. They will be pretty worthless next xpac. Same for epic gems. Whether the people are actually ninjaing i will leave it to them. But yeah for my guild I am trying to get rid of as much stuff as possible to benefit the guild come cataclysm.
theRaptor May 31st 2010 7:15PM
Alternatively hold on to trade skill levelling mats as they will be worth 3-4x current prices when all the Worgen and Goblins start hitting Wrath level. I made a lot of gold from selling my enchanters old BC stash when I reactivated for Wrath.
Clear out items and matts only needed for epic items and maybe some other stuff to have space. But I recommend saving at least a bag* full of stuff and dropping it on the AH 6 months into Cata.
* I have a bank alt full of BC and Wrath leather.
Rob May 31st 2010 10:07PM
Same goes for lower level ore/cloth/leather/herbs. Shh! (and not to mention the absolute field day tailors and scribes will have come cataclysm - i can almost guarantee bag prices will double for quite a while).
crazeman May 31st 2010 1:46PM
You gave the guildy a good 4k discount and he was willing and happy to pay 6k for the hilt. It sounds like drama nonsense created by the other guildies putting their 2 cents in.
And that loot system sounds like a poor excuse for progression. If two player have the same wrist piece and a wrist upgrade drops, wouldn't giving it to the better player actually be better for progression? That loot system sounds just as bad as loot council...
Urizen May 31st 2010 1:49PM
Personally I won a hilt as well along with many other people when the new instances came out and they dropped like nothing. The quest line is pretty in depth and the rewards from it are pretty decent. If I won that thing again knowing that cataclysm is coming out and money will be much more helpful to myself/the guild since the weapon i get will eventually become useless, hell yes I would sell that thing and not even think twice about it. Giving it to someone for free is just plain dumb especially when it maybe shotty that the person might not even be on to use it.
You did the right thing giving the discount as most people would and the people in your guild are just plain retarded. If anything you could donate the money to the gbank as well as a kind gesture (personally not what I would do).
JimPaladin, lord of Uldaman Server May 31st 2010 1:50PM
I think the guy who sold the Battered Hilt had every right to sell it.
We're talking about 10k gold. Not a few Abyss Crystals he had laying around in his bank. Selling it for 6k was pretty damned generous in it's own, and if the guild is going to abuse him in that way, he should really just leave it. No reason to be made the butt end of abuse for "Not giving the guildie an item worth 10k+ gold"
On a similiar note, Quel'Delar is a freaking horrible sword and I hope the guildie enjoys replacing it as soon as he starts doing ICC 10 normal mode.
mds May 31st 2010 2:25PM
Depends on the class and spec gaining the hilt in question. It's not a fantastic weapon, but it can be pretty good for pre-ICC or even while progressing through the early bosses. I picked up the Lens of the Mind variant at a time when my odds of getting Lockjaw/Trauma weren't very good. I don't regret the decision in the slightest.
The character in the scenario 'doesn't raid' and has 'limited internet time.' It may have been a cool, high end weapon that he had access to.
clundgren May 31st 2010 2:28PM
Quel'Delar is a great weapon for some classes. For ret paladins it is often the best iLevel 251 weapon. The first boss drop in ICC, citadel enforcer's claymore, has a huge chunk of hit on it, but with ret gearing we are typically trying to lose hit, not get more of it, so those itemization points are mostly wasted.
And IMO Quel'Delar is one of the best looking swords in the game, with great lore around it. In fact, given how important the lore is, I think it should be an iLevel 264 item at least. I got one the first day of the patch, when they were dropping like hotcakes, but then swapped it out within a week or so for Bryntroll. After the big deal the Blood Elves made about the sword, and the length of the quest chain, it all felt kind of anti-climactic.
Hoggersbud May 31st 2010 11:59PM
Meh, my Ret Paladin was at a near perfect 264 hit with the claymore, the T10.5 gloves and the neck from...Conquest badges.
Then I got Bryntroll and had to look for more hit.
Such a task. Such a task!
Arkhill May 31st 2010 1:56PM
"How he has limited internet and can't do raids with us and how I should have been nicer to give it to him for free."
I agree with you Scott. The transaction didn't involve the other guild members, and the poster did give a pretty substantial discount.
But as to giving it to the guildie who can't raid, why does that person need it? If you aren't helping the guild raid, then why do you need a 251 weapon? So you can blow up heroics 10% faster?
I don't have a problem with helping out a guildie, especially one who -needs- the item, but there is no reason to hurt yourself so you can give someone something they don't need.
zdave May 31st 2010 2:10PM
oh noez! not mah abyss crystalz! lol at the third email.
as for the hilt, who cares? maybe the guildie shouldn't have been so dumb as to spend 6k gold on a wep that gets replaced by the first boss in reg ICC 10. even the scrubs on Jaedenar are pugging that stuff, man. C'mon....
and the loot system of the guild in the first email? seriously? give better gear to the lower dps. riiiight. hey while you're at it why don't you make them officers too.
Avan May 31st 2010 2:30PM
That's a crazy stupid loot system.
zubbiefish May 31st 2010 3:10PM
Yeah, I'm realy shocked at the "hilt" behavior.
Why should your guild have ANY control over what you do with something like that?
If they're doing any more than congratulating you, for your good fortune, and the guildie, you sold to, for his, then they're just being douche bags of the highest order.
"Guildies give for free" Is nice as far as it goes but where does it stop? I happen to have enough gold on my engineer to go out and get all the mats for a Mechano-hog. If one of my guildies wants one I'm obligated to go out and build him one because I can?
Madness.