while i agree with what you said, if somebody isn't raiding in wrath, they will never raid. raiding has never been easier than it is now. forget about classic raiding that involved animal sacrifice to get an invite. in BC it was tough just to gear up to raiding (heroics and pre raid quests that were hard as balls!).

in wrath right now: "hey i just hit 80," two days later: "hey i'm geared for raiding," one hour later: " hey i just got a sweet drop off marrowgwar 10". that's literally how easy it is. if somebody isn't raiding, it's definitely some fault of their own.

and if they aren't raiding, yeah...no need for that 251 wep.

Honestly, I think the Battered Hilt should be considered an AH roll. Most of the players that win the roll, I would imagine, sell it instead of actually using it, for two main reasons.
One, weapons are extremely accessible in ICC. And two, 10k is quite simply rather expensive for a 251 weapon. One could do a gdkp and get a 264 weapon for half that price.

Also, from personal experience, the two times I've seen it drop, all 5 players rolled Need, and the players that won already had 251+ weapons equipped and simply sought to sell the Hilt.

@zdave - Uhhh - you may be right, but raiding takes a huge time commitment and some of us have RL responsibilities that prevent us raiding. Does that mean we should never get Phat Lewtz? I work a 60 hour week and have a teen-aged daughter (now SHE has time to raid) and have other commitments besides, you sound like you have a lot of life still to experience.

whereas you dont deserve loot any less than a raider, i believe his point is that if you dont raid at all you don't really need a 251 weapon. you don;t actually need any more than the usual epics and blues to do anything other than raid, so everyone has an equal claim to it.

@noel mcleod

My guilds farm runs can get 8/12 ICC-10 in three hours*. In two hours in a bad pug you should at least be able to do the first four. If 2-3 hours a week is too much of a time commitment you should re-think why you are wasting money on WoW. Plenty of free to play MMOs out there that will give you a lot more fun if you don't have that amount of time.

And I agree with zdave about how easy it is to gear for raiding with the ICC 10 mans. My rogue has been 80 for a day and I could take it into Ulduar or ToC with similarly geared people and manage to full clear.

* Where I as a 5.5k GS Shadow Priest top the DPS meters. We aren't uber-geared or skilled or anything.

Also I remember doing ToC-10 in 45 minutes a few weeks after it came out. ToC-25 doesn't take much longer. It is only progression raiding that sucks time out of your life.