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The latest patch 5.4 newsThe Daily Quest: Me tanks
by Anne Stickney 
May 31st 2010 at 10:00PM
It's Monday, which means I'll be plunking around on a troll warrior this evening thanks to the Choose My Adventure program. Shamefully, while I've done plenty of questing, I haven't really done much in the way of instances or tanking. This is due to some deep-seated fear that I'm going to be the horrible tank that gets the healer killed by a runaway add, the obnoxious tank that lives by the philosophy "Continuously pull threat off of me and I will let your cloth-wearing hiney tank that mob" or just simple fear of complete and utter incompetence in general. Thankfully there's plenty out there in the WoW blogosphere regarding tanking:
- The Wayward Initiative likes to stand in front of things that mean them harm.
- Righteous Defense serves up three impenetrable facts about armor as well as introducing the cooldown you can chug.
- Tankingtips reflects on 6 or 7 tanking mistakes you'll consistently make, as well as discussing the Dungeon Tool and how it is ruining your chances of Raid Tanking.
- This is doing little to ease my fears. Let's go to The Stoppable Force for a reassuring and cheery musical number instead.
Filed under: The Daily Quest
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
Teron Jun 1st 2010 4:25AM
Seriously, if they're stupid I try to work with them. If they're dps meter addicts I try to ignore them. But if they're either somehow against the group (blast waving mages.....), or if they're flat out rude, I refuse to tank for them.
Slightly off topic, but should be put somewhere. The time you should enter heroics as a warrior tank is 25000 health (self buffed, keep commanding shout on and power auras or the like tracking it) and 540 defense. Higher is great, but if your tank has that, don't bitch at them, they shouldn't be in toc or icecrown heroics, but for normals, especially Nexus, those are fine stats.
How this is related was I recently entered a nexus run in which I was grouped with a di--death knight. His first words were "Howdy scrubs" followed by "JK all" "well cept for the tank with his 29k hp". . . Yeah.... did heroic forge right before that without anybody dying....
Don't feel the need to tank for people like that, either leave them, kick them, let them pull aggro and die, or if you really hate them and it's in the first 15 min or someone else's been kicked, leave the instance until they leave the group. Yes it's asshole-ish, but
if you really want to finish a run without the debuff that may be what you need to do. But people like that are going to be against the group in some way, either through stupidity like Mord's boomkin example, or just by being an irritant when you need to focus.
Hal Jun 1st 2010 6:34AM
@Teron
25k HP to start tanking heroics? Good gravy man, most of us started tanking them with significantly less than that. Granted, that number is a much easier target to hit these days given the accessibility of badge gear (and the relative desirability of heroic dungeon gear), but 25k? As long as you have mostly high level questing/dungeon blues, you'll be fine.
Oni Stardust Jun 1st 2010 12:06AM
I tried to read the article, but the sexy Troll in a skimpy outfit was too distracting.
Darthregis Jun 1st 2010 10:37AM
*distracted by tusks* ??
SilentShimmy Jun 1st 2010 12:33AM
I have this exact same fear. Even after tanking a few dungeons I still have this fear. I really do hope that I will get over it as time passes.
My opinnion on the "Dps can tank what they pull" thing is that a tank should try to regain that aggro. A tank is there for the sole purpose of keeping aggro off of the others. If I am going to tank I go in thinking that the Dps are going to be complete idiots. Makes me try all the more harder to keep aggro. I have to keep the idiots from messing things up. Anyway after the Dps dies my healer could very well be next on the list. If I can save the healer from taking any damage or having to waste mana on healing the Dps then I feel that I am doing my job.
But I haven't been tanking long, so people who have been tanking for a long time may have a diffirent view. Hell my view may very well change after a while.
Lemons Jun 1st 2010 5:48AM
Tanking in low level dungeons isn't really srs business. Almost anyone can tank, now well obviously, but they can take quite a few hits. It's nothing like 80 heroics where if dps/heals get aggro they can get 2 shotted.
In fact the annoying part for me is that when DPS do pull they can and will tank the mobs. Makes me feel a bit useless at times. They can't pull huge packs like I can, but even if I wasn't there I think they could get by. I'm actually waiting for the day when being a complete jag-off gets a dps 2-shotted, I would relish that.
Blayze Jun 1st 2010 12:55AM
The best emotion for tanking as a Warrior is -- hatred. Hate the mobs, make downing the content personal.
Let it energise your actions, let it fuel and drive you.
And above all, remember that the only threat you have to manage is your own . If DPS can't manage their threat, it's not your concern.
Despair is not the tank way. Blind, unrelenting rage -- that's the way forward.
mord Jun 1st 2010 1:32AM
The tank is the star of the show, the center of attention. The tank is the most important person during a raid encounter. If the tank bites it, you got about 12 seconds of evasion to kill the boss or he will kill all of you. Now some people aren't comfortable playing the leading role. If you'd rather hide in the back of the room and light things on fire and turn invisible when things go bad then keep leveling that mage.
But if you like to control things then you will enjoy tanking.
The tank sets the pace of the dungeon. The tank tells the mobs where to stand, who to attack (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=355), and when they are allowed to cast spells (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=72). Before the LFG system and before the AOE-fest of Wrath dungeons, the tank would often be promoted to group leader to mark targets, because lets face it, dps are too afraid to control important things like kill order.
So try tanking. Get over that fear of being a leader and go PROT for a week. Take charge of the situation. In fact, charge is the best way to start a pull.
Blayze Jun 1st 2010 1:47AM
Biggest benefit I've found is that Finder queues mean I can get DPS gear faster as a tank.
michael.dunkerton Jun 1st 2010 2:32AM
I love tanking. I love warrior tanking especially. I'm not getting their attention by casting holy spells at them, I'm running at them and screaming in their face. The feeling of power is great.
BUT. It's that feeling of power as a tank that makes people say things like "The tank is the most important person during a raid encounter." I even notice when I tank, that it becomes easy to take others for granted. I'm hitting things, their health is dropping. It almost feels like you're soloing. But instances come in groups for a reason. Without any part, the group falls apart. I want to see how well you "control things" with an oom healer and an enrage timer.
To be honest, I think ranged dps are in the best position to appreciate what happens in a dungeon. They're not just watching health bars and they don't have some giant ogre in their face--they're seeing the whole thing and realizing that everyone is doing something. Obviously a lot only watch the recount in the corner, but the fact remains that dps have the best opportunity to NOT be tunnel-visioned.
As much as dps are prone to recount syndrome, tanks are prone to diva syndrome.
"If you'd rather hide in the back of the room and light things on fire and turn invisible when things go bad then keep leveling that mage. " I realize you're being facetious, but come on. And "lets face it, dps are too afraid to control important things like kill order. " Dps don't decide kill order because dps don't pull! You want dps to be "braver" and start deciding who gets attacked first?
I like instances better than pvp because I like working as a team to achieve a common goal. That's not nearly as fun when someone has to constantly remind you that just because he gets shorter queues, you're just "meat in the room".
Ozzard Jun 1st 2010 3:35AM
I suspect this (age-old) argument boils down to team dynamics. A 5-man PUG in RFC is a new team, just as a 25-man experienced raiding guild taking down Arthas is a team. The difference is the level of experience that each player has in dealing with the other players. Just like any other team, a PUG will take time to settle down.
There's an old comment that teams go through four stages: forming, storming, norming, performing. A team that's forming is feeling its way around, getting an initial idea of who the other people are in the group. Then the arguments start, and the team's storming. Then, after time, the arguments start to settle down and the team starts to converge on a set of norms - a set of common goals and ways of working. Finally, the team starts to perform as a team rather than as a set of individuals.
This process is horribly accelerated in WoW. PUGs go past forming in the first minute, but many never get past storming. I regard "good PUGs" as the ones that minimise the storming phase and get on with finding a common set of norms... and that process requires emotional maturity, compromise and, yes, some team skills. Many of these are in short supply in WoW.
As a tank or healer, my emphasis in a PUG is slightly different to most. It's "How can I get what I want (loot) out of this situation with the maximum enjoyment?" This means that I'll try to help the team form: say hello, buff, act as team leader only if required, and complement players when they do something right rather than criticising when they do something wrong. If there's a particular idiot in the PUG who clearly isn't and doesn't want to be a team player, then I'll try to isolate the damage that they're causing to the rest of the team. In extreme cases, I'll start a vote-kick. But I find that these situations are far less common now that I'm more aware of the team dynamics and I spend a little effort to manage those dynamics.
Teron Jun 1st 2010 3:19AM
This is slightly off topic at first, but it will make sense in a minute. Have you played Demon's Souls? In it one of the main things you need to do is observe the enemy, and think quickly. You need to see how the enemy attacks, how much damage they do with each attack, where other enemies are, the enemy's range, what spells the enemies cast, etc. You need to decide before you attack if it's worth it to extend yourself, when you attempt to not be hit by an attack you decide between dodging, running, blocking, or attempting to parry the attack. At first this is tricky, and you die a lot, but as you gain experience you kind of get into the mindset and everything turns gold.
This kind of mindset is a good one for tanking, at least for me. You keep an eye on omen, see who's next on the threat meter and put vigilance on them, and keep an eye on anyone who's being a major threat source. You watch how much damage the enemy is doing and decide whether to shield block, shield wall, use a trinket, etc. You see what debuffs the enemy uses on you and decide who needs to die first. (and despite the AOELOL people out there, there are at least some times where you should kill certain targets first, or at least focus fire on some.) There are a lot more examples of this sort of thinking helping in dungeons, and while I know you're only tanking lower level instances at the moment, it's not a bad idea to start trying to pay attention in such a way before you get put to the test of trying to tank a heroic where people are more likely to push you really hard to get moving. Once you get into this mindset, even in a dungeon you haven't tanked before you'll be able to keep up with the needs of each run.
rika13 Jun 1st 2010 4:07AM
our GM and raid leader is a female troll warrior tank
stupid easy ranged dps (mages nowdays, was locks in bc) do have the best view of the field as their own jobs dont require much concentration (vs ret, dk's and enhance which have to watch CD's; locks, druids, and priests with complex rotations)
the tank as a leader comes from the old european ideals of valor in a leader, leading from the front, subutai would have pwnt europe watching his troops from the top of a hill if the khan didnt die, forcing him to return to mongolia
Reis Jun 1st 2010 6:22AM
So that's how Annephora tanks. "Hey there little mobs, lemme distract you with my short shorts while the dps eats away the numbers off your HP bar."
Ozzard Jun 1st 2010 8:03AM
Interesting how playing a different role changes one's view of the world :-). For example, now that I've played a warlock I can entirely understand how a 'lock's threat generation can suddenly spike due to crits. When I'm tanking on my bear, I no longer resent having to peel a mob off the warlock occasionally (though it does get a little tiresome when it's the 50th time in the instance).
Certainly I'd argue that it's worth playing all four roles (tank, healer, melee DPS, ranged DPS) to a sufficient level that you find out the key aspects. "Before you criticise a player, walk a mile in their shoes. That way, if you still want to criticise them, you have a mile head start and they have no shoes."
Tina Marie Jun 1st 2010 11:43AM
I'm leveling a Warrior tank through the dungeon finder in the Zangermarsh guild, and it's really been a lot of fun.
The thing to realize is that you set the pace. You don't have to chain-pull entire instances. Tell the DPS to wait until they see the Thunderstomp animation before they start DPSing. Wait for the healer to have mana before the next pull.
And get some tanking addons. I like ThreatPlates, but you can get away with the aggro bars in the standard UI. I use Grid for healing, so I just turned on the advanced aggro settings (instead of just a red border around a player when they have aggro, this shows a yellow border when they're about to pull aggro) and use that as my raid frames.
Also, you don't have to commit to tanking for life. Get a decent shield, and go try one instance. If you can fill the group with guildies, that's easiest. Maybe you'll love it!
Powell1819 Jun 2nd 2010 12:29PM
This is slightly off topic from all the comments, but is related to a new warrior. My main is a Gnome Mage ( Gnomes FTW!), but I recently rolled a Foresaken Warrior to check out all the Horde goodness. My warrior is on a pvp server and I'm looking to do quite a bit of BGs and world pvp as I level. Being new to the class and pvp too, I'm trying to find any pvp tips or guides for a leveling/low level warrior, so I turn to WOW.C0M for help. I would love to get any tips or advice on this topic. My warrior is leveling prot, btw.
As to tanking, as a dps'er whose now tanking, I explain to the group that I'm newto tanking and that my main is a dps, so please forgive any mistakes and that any tips are more than welcome. Fir the most part this works well for me. Of course you do get bad players too.
Teron Jun 2nd 2010 5:08PM
Well, I don't know that much about prot pvp, (Either fury or arms here when pvping, although I tank in pve) But I can try and help you out with some general warrior tricks.
1. Never forget abilities not in your stance. As prot, this would mainly be hamstring, but there are times as arms where you want to swap to defensive stance to disarm, berserker to intercept, etc.
2. If you need to heal, or just someone's too nasty for you, hamstring them and run away. You can add rend to this to more or less stop other exclusively melee chars like rogues and other warriors, even if you can't actually kill them. Just hamstring, rend, then run through them and stand away from them.
3. It's not always a good idea to be the first person into a pvp fight, even if you're the tank. It can be more effective to watch when an enemy needs to be stunned, and then do your charge, and at early levels you would be unable to charge anyways.
4. Don't forget your debuffs. While obviously demoralizing shout's a piece of crap in pvp(worth using in pve due to mobs using ap differently), Thunderclap's not a bad ability, especially buffed, since it'll drop attack speed by 20% if I remember as prot, which will weaken any melee class, and in the warrior's case drop their rage generation by 20%. Also, sunder armor and devestate are useful on flag carriers or anybody who's not going to be easy to take down.
I prefer arms or fury for pvp, but these should be good, hope that helps.
Powell1819 Jun 4th 2010 4:40AM
Thanks Teron.