Lichborne: Gearing for new level 80 tank death knights

So you've just dinged level 80, and you're ready and willing to take on one of the toughest jobs at the end game, that of the tank. But how do you get prepared and geared so that you have a decent chance of grabbing a slot in a 10- or 25-man ICC raid so that you can see the Lich King die before Cataclysm? Let's give you a few tips and a list of gear to shoot for to get you in top pre-raid shape.
Speccing and other basic tips
To start, you want to make sure you have a solid tank spec and a grasp of the basic mechanics of tanking. Luckily, we have a whole bunch of back issues of Lichborne that offer some prime tips to getting your spec and playstyle nailed down. Start with our 101 guides for your favorite tree:- Blood Tanking 101 will get you squared away on the premiere (and come Cataclysm, the only) tanking tree.
- Frost Tanking 101 offers guidance for the "classic" tanking tree.
- Unholy Tanking 101 offers guidance for the unique and endangered playstyle that is unholy tanking.
- This article will give you advice on glyphs for blood tanks and gems and enchants for every tank.
- Buttons more death knights should push includes some good advice for tank death knights and a reminder of a few cooldowns you may want to use.
- Our 5-man dungeon tanking primer includes some tips you may find handy as you're gearing up.
- Our elementary death knight macro guide has a few macros you'll want to make use of, especially for making sure you can get off those Rune Strikes.
Gearing guide overview
We've done quite a few tank gearing guides already on Lichborne, and while some of the specifics have changed, most of the information is still good. If you want to dig down deep into the loot tables of each dungeon, check out these guides:- This basic defense gearing guide covers normal dungeons, reputation gear and quest rewards to help you hit the 540 defense plateau. If you need some quick and dirty upgrades, or just something to jump-start a tanking suit from 0, check this guide.
- This heroic defense gearing guide covers the best tanking gear from heroic dungeons before patch 3.2. You'll be running a lot of heroics to get triumph badges, most likely, so keep an eye for these drops to bolster you until can get the really good stuff.
- The 5-man Trial of the Champion guide contains a bevy of ilevel 200 and 219 gear that, while getting old, still may be just what you need in a lot of cases.
- The Icecrown 5-mans have a lot of excellent gear that'll get you in raiding shape.
- This Emblem of Triumph gear guide should help give you an idea of what to spend your emblems on.
- While the frost emblems won't really start rolling in until you're raiding, you'll still want to start planning on how to spend them now -- and who knows? If you can get in enough PUG weekly raid quest groups and do your daily heroic run every day, you may even have enough to buy a thing or two before you finally get that ICC raid group. Check out this frost emblem guide for some advice.
Gear to start raiding with
Now that we've looked at the raw data of what drops, it's time to get down to the nitty-gritty of what really works. Essentially, you'll want to get as much of your gear up to item level 232 as possible in order to get a decent chance at surviving and thriving in Icecrown Citadel. That essentially means you'll want to grab four-piece tier 9, then top off your gear with various choices from the Icecrown 5-player dungeons and Trial of the Champion.This list will give you a basic rundown of what to shoot for as you gear up, in order from most powerful to least powerful. This will focus primarily on triumph emblems and 5-player dungeon rewards, since we'll assume that's what you're focusing on, though you may be able to get into a Vault or Onyxia PUG from time to time. Once you start getting into raids, you will get better drops in many cases, but for now, focus on trying to get the top one or two choices in each of these categories. Remembers, as you gear and gem up, keep in mind your stat priorities from the 101 guides, especially in regard to getting 540 defense. Always, always, always make sure you're at 540 defense.
Head
- You can also buy the Faceplate or Headplate of the Honorbound with Emblems of Triumph. At item level 245, it beats out all of the below helms pretty handily. The only real downside is that it doesn't count toward the four-piece tier 9 bonus.
- The Frostforged Ringhelm from Onyxia is definitely worth a look. The 10-man version has more stamina than the tier 9 triumph emblem helms, especially when you factor in the +12 stamina gem bonus hidden behind a blue gem slot. The one real downside is that it swaps out the more preferable dodge rating for parry rating. It also has some hit rating to help with threat.
- Koltira's or Thassarian's Faceguard of Conquest, purchased with Emblems of Triumph, is a good goal. There's better from badges, sure, and the yellow gem slot sort of messes up the +12 stamina gem bonus and helps put the total stamina available from this piece below other similar tanking helms, but this helm does allow you to get that four-piece bonus.
- The Second Helm of the Executioner is actually less useful for us than it might first appear, since the shield block rating on it is a waste for us. Still, if you need a stopgap until you get a helm from emblems, you might as well take it.
- The Helm of the Crestfallen Challenger is your first step up, from the second battle of heroic Trial of the Champion. It has less stamina than the Tempered Titansteel Helm, but more of just about everything else, and a hefty +12 stamina for an easily obtainable gemming bonus.
- If you're looking for a quick and dirty entry into the tanking field, you might want to see if you can find a cheap Tempered Titansteel Helm for sale. It'll do nicely until you get or buy better.
- You can also grab the higher item level Shoulderguards or Shoulderplates of Enduring Order using Emblems of Triumph. They don't have the hit rating from the tier 9 shoulders and they have a little less defense, but they're otherwise superior to tier 9 in every way. Remember, though, they don't apply to the tier 9 four-piece bonus, so choose wisely before you buy.
- Thassarian's or Koltira's Pauldrons of Conquest are the tier 9 Emblem of Triumph shoulders. They're pretty solid and include some hit rating for extra threat.
- The Shoulderplates of Frozen Blood from heroic Pit of Saron's Forgemaster Garfrost are hobbled by the lack of a gem slot, but they're still a decent stopgap until you can grab emblem shoulders.
- You can start out by trying for the Regal Aurous Shoulderplates from The Confessor's Cache in heroic Trial of the Champion.
- Koltira's or Thassarian's Chestguard of Conquest, from triumph emblems, should be your ultimate pre-raid goal. While it does have fewer raw stats than the Icebound Bronze Cuirass, again, the gem slots and the set bonuses make up for it.
- From the heroic version of Scourgelord Tyrannus, you can pick up the Icebound Bronze Cuirass. Though it does have more stamina, defense and dodge rating than the base tier 9 chest, it's hobbled by the lack of gem slots, which arguably push tier 9 back to the forefront, especially after you factor in the tier 9 set bonuses. Still, it's a good one to grab until you have the emblems to spend.
- Your dungeon drop upgrade is the Scourgelord's Frigid Chestplate, which drops from normal Pit of Saron's Scourgelord Tyrannus. Unfortunately, it has no defense, but it has an excellent spread of other stats, including a blue socket backed up by a +6 stamina slot bonus. If you can take it and still keep over 540 defense, it'll serve you well until you get the emblems for the tier 9 chest.
- Unfortunately, things are a bit sparse in the pre-raid epic tank chest category, so you may end up relying on the Breastplate of the Solemn Council from revered Wrymrest Accord faction until you can grab better. Luckily, it's pretty solid, solid enough to last you through basic heroic runs until you get some emblems.
- If you're stockpiling Emblems of Frost on your way to ICC raiding, consider picking up a Sentinel's Winter Cloak. The extra armor makes it arguably the best tanking cloak in game currently, and certainly the best outside of Heroic ICC modes.
- While PvP cloaks certainly aren't specifically itemized for tanking, they do have tons of stamina, so it may be worth picking one up just because there's so few other options. The Titan-Forged Cloak of Victory, from Wintergrasp Marks of Honor, has a gem slot for even more stamina, while the Wrathful Gladiator's Cloak of Victory provides some hit rating for extra threat.
- Your best dungeon drop option comes from Normal Halls of Reflection in the form the Eerie Runeblade Polisher.
- Good tanking cloaks are hard to find outside of raids, so you may just want to break 25 Emblems of Triumph down into 25 Emblems of Valor and grab a Platinum Mesh Cloak for a good solid option.
- Due to the dearth of decent tanking bracers outside of raids, you may want to consider trying to get someone to craft you some Saronite Swordbreakers, which should do you just fine to step into ICC-10.
- You can spend 60 Emblems of Valor (convert Emblems of Triumph down to Emblems of Valor) to get Bracers of Dalaran's Parapets, a good solid set of tanking bracers.
- At only 30 emblems, Koltira's or Thassarian's Handguards of Conquest are a very smart buy. They'll serve you well headed into ICC.
- Your best dungeon bet, Crystalline Citadel Gauntlets, come from normal Halls of Reflection. Unfortunately, they have shield block value, so they aren't itemized very well for death knights, but they'll hold you over until you get better.
- If you can find a blacksmith who knows how to make it, you might consider buying an Indestructible Plate Girdle. The two gem slots make it comparable to the Shieldwarder Girdle when properly gemmed, although you'll lose the hit rating, and trade a bit of dodge and defense rating for some parry rating instead.
- If you have no drop luck or can't be bothered to run normal dungeons, you can buy a Shieldwarder Girdle with 28 emblems. While it has no gem slot and thus lags behind a properly gemmed Girdle of the Pallid Knight in total stamina, it makes up for it with extra base stamina as well as more armor, defensive stats and hit rating.
- The Titanium Links of Lore will drop from trash in the Icecrown 5-man dungeons. Unfortunately, with no gem slot and useless block value, they're strictly lackluster for death knight tanks as anything more than a temporary solution.
- The Girdle of the Pallid Knight from the Black Knight in Normal Trial of the Champion is a great starter belt, especially with a blue gem slot unlocking more stamina.
- Ultimately, you'll want to grab either the Koltira's or Thassarian's Legguards of Conquest when you can afford to drop the emblems. Thanks to a superior item level and, again, the set bonuses, they come out ahead for pre-raid stuff.
- In normal Forge of Souls, you can grab Legplates of Frozen Granite from the final boss. They're pretty much a slightly better version of the Legguards of Abandoned Fealty, except they switch dodge rating for parry rating and expertise for hit rating.
- The Legguards of Abandoned Fealty from normal Trial of the Champion are a good starter pair of tank legs. They've got everything a growing tank needs, including expertise and a blue gem slot.
- If you want to go the extra mile, buy or gather the materials for some Spiked Deathdealers. While they technically have slightly lower raw stats than the Black Spire Sabatons, their two gem slots boost them to the top, especially if you load up a couple of Solid Majestic Zircons or a Zircon and a Vivid Eye of Zuul in there.
- Black Spire Sabatons from the heroic version of the Devourer of Souls are an incredibly solid pair of tanking boots that should carry you into ICC-10 with little issue
- You can get Sollerets of Suffering from normal Forge of Souls' Devourer of Souls, but the lack of a gem slot and the wasted block value itemization makes them strictly lackluster for death knight tanks. Consider them a last ditch stopgap measure until you get better.
- The Boots of Heartfelt Repentance from normal Trial of the Champion's Eadric are a very solid pair of starter tank boots, especially with a solid gem of some sort in the gem slot.
- The Clutch of Fortification has it all: armor, stamina, defense and dodge. It's a pretty wise use of 35 Emblems of Triumph, for sure. It'll serve you well as you start tanking raids.
- If you manage to get into an Onyxia 10-man PUG, keep an eye out for the Runed Ring of Binding. While it lags behind slightly in stamina, it makes up for it with some solid armor and resistances.
- The Mark of the Relentless drops from the Champion's Cache in heroic Trial of the Champion. While it lacks defense, it more than makes up for it in other stats, including a blue gem slot that gives it the highest potential stamina of any of the pre-raid rings if you slot it with a Solid Majestic Zircon.
- If you have spare emblems and you're really desperate for a good tank ring, you can buy the Signet of the Impregnable Fortress. It's especially good if you need some extra threat, since it has hit and expertise. That said, though, there's better you can get for actual defensive stats, so you probably want to spend your emblems on other stuff.
- For a quick and dirty ring upgrade, you can commission a jewelcrafter to make you a Titanium Earthguard Ring. That said, it's not amazing anymore and there is better available, so you may not want to do this unless you have a lot of money you can throw away.
- The Fossilized Ammonite Choker from the end of the Halls of Reflection has a little bit of just about every defense stat and is definitely the best tank neck you'll find outside a raid.
- The Shard of the Crystal Forest will only set you back 19 emblems and has a nice outlay of basic defensive stats, plus a bit of hit rating for threat.
- The Warlord's Depravity comes from the Black Knight in heroic Trial of the Champion. While it's a decent starter tank necklace, it wastes some itemization on block value. You can use this as a starter neck, but you'll want to shed it for better before you start raiding.
- If you manage to save up enough Emblems of Frost, the Corroded Skeleton Key is about the best tank trinket you're going to find outside of heroic ICC. It's worth considering as your first frost emblem purchase, thanks to that amazing stamina.
- The Glyph of Indomitability from emblems provides a nice chunk of effective health with 1,792 armor, although the dodge on use is considered less useful in many circles.
- The Black Heart drops from the Black Knight in normal Trial of the Champion, but it is well worth specifically targeting the normal version for this trinket. Not only does it have a hefty chunk of stamina, but the equippable proc provides even more effective health through armor. You'll find this holds its own against higher level trinkets surprisingly well.
- You can grab Ick's Rotting Thumb from Ick in Heroic Pit of Saron. The dodge is makes this a decent choice for an unholy tank especially, although most tanks will prefer other trinkets that provide effective health.
- If you're lucky enough to win or buy a Battered Hilt, Quel'delar, Might of the Faithful will easily beat out anything pre-ICC.
- The Orca Hunter's Harpoon from heroic Halls of Reflection is a pretty decent tank weapon thanks to the extra agility. There are two warnings to give here, though. Hunters and druids may hate you if you take it, and in Cataclysm, that attack power will be converted to extra agility, slightly decreasing the threat potential of the weapon.
- The Tyrannical Beheader from Scourgelord Tyrannus in heroic Pit of Saron is one of your best bets outside a raid or the Battered Hilt. It even beats 10-player Onyxia drops.
- Garfrost's Two-Ton Hammer from the eponymous boss in normal Pit of Saron is a relatively solid death knight tank weapon, at least until you can get better.
- Marrowstrike from the Confessor's Cache is heroic Trial of the Crusader is a decent stopgap tanking weapon, if only because the agility offers a slight bit more dodge.
- The Edge of Ruin comes from the Champion's Cache in heroic Trial of the Crusader.
- At the end of normal Halls of Reflection, you can grab Mourning Malice for a quick weapon fix.
- If you have money to burn, the Titansteel Destroyer will still work nicely for you until you can get a better drop.
For one-handed weapons, note that I'm focusing primarily on DPS weapons. While it's possible (and indeed tempting) to pick up tanking weapons, the fast speed and low high-end damage on tank weapons will severely reduce your ability to pick up single-target threat. I would strongly recommend sticking to DPS weapons until you've mastered threat.
- Again, grab a Battered Hilt if you can. Quel'delar, Cunning of the Shadows will beat out anything before ICC.
- The Black Icicle drops from the Captain's Chest at the end of heroic Halls of Reflection.
- Nighttime drops from Bronjahm in heroic Forge of Souls.
- Aledar's Battlestar is a decent stop-gap one-hander from Eadric in heroic Trial of the Champion, until you get better.
- The Ghoulslicer and the Hate Forged Cleaver come from normal Halls of Reflection, from Falric and the Captain's Chest respectively.
Filed under: Death Knight, (Death Knight) Lichborne
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
Cataca Jun 1st 2010 11:48AM
"considering the increased need for expertise and you can't get defense from shield" "(we're talking 45+ expertise here)"
DK's do not really have an increased need for expertise. We really only need 26 expertise rating. (Same as any other tank)
The only reason why you would -need- any more than that is if your duel wielding -fast- weapons. If you're going slow/slow your fine with 26 expertise. If your going fast/fast then you'd need ~30 expertise to be comparable to any other tank.
(Source: http://pwnwear.com/2010/01/11/dual-wield-weapon-speed-and-expertise/)
Not to mention that using fast weapons is highly discouraged because they offer lower threat. And that even if you did use fast weapons, the only reason why you'd need 30 expertise is to push off the extra parry gibs you'd receive. (Most ICC bosses have parry haste turned off so that renders all of that extra expertise moot because they wont parry gib you anyway)
DKs are also not hard pressed for defense. Yes we can not wield a shield or a weapon with tanking stats but we have "Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle" for 2-Handers and "Rune of the Nerubian Carapace" for dual wielding.
Rune of the Stoneskin Gargoyle gives us 25 Defense. Now, that is 25 defense skill, not rating. Converted, 25 defense skill equals 123 defense rating.
Rune of the Nerubian Carapace gives us 13 Defense. With this enchant on both weapons that is a total of 26 defense skill. Converted, 26 defense skill is 128 defense rating.
Not many shield/tanking weapon can even get close to hitting 128 rating. If anything DKs will have an easier time reaching the defense cap than any other class. And they do not require any more expertise than any other class if doing things properly.
Marvelous Jun 1st 2010 10:18AM
The shoulders from heroic PoS (Shoulderplates of Frozen Blood) are more than a stop-gap, they're BiS for easily attainable pre-raid gear due to the expertise. If you're not rocking 30+ expertise you're missing out on a boat-load of threat.
joe Jun 1st 2010 10:17AM
I find this macro invaluable in ICC and 5 mans
#showtooltip
/cast [target=mouseover,harm,exists,nodead] Chains of ice; Chains of Ice
this will cast chains of Ice on whatever your mouse is over, making you able to assist your raid on killing any kind of boss adds, without switching targets. Saurfang for example, toss Chains of Ice on the Blood adds and watch your ranged praise you forever :D
Elleyna Jun 1st 2010 10:20AM
This isn't bad advice considering how mindless tanking Saurfang is. The only things you have to worry about is taunting (DBM gives a big ass warning on the screen) and not using Heart Strike when the adds pop up.
joe Jun 1st 2010 10:21AM
Sorry I forgot to mention, this was supposed to be a response to the macro's article, but the post is to old so I cannot comment on it anymore.
Hoggersbud Jun 1st 2010 11:11AM
>While it's possible (and indeed tempting) to pick up tanking weapons, the fast speed and low high-end damage on tank weapons will severely reduce your ability to pick up single-target threat.<
Say it again Sam, I don't think enough DK's heard you. Seriously, while I suppose some might get it to work, far too many bad DK tanks are DW 2-fast tank weapons and they don't even know what they're doing.
MazokuRanma Jun 1st 2010 12:02PM
Actually, ever since they buffed Icy Touch threat, picking up single target threat has been a joke and a half. While it's true you'll lose some of your dps potential as a result, if you spam Icy Touch whenever it's available (which will be -all the damn time- as a a result of blood runes) there is no way anyone can approach you on threat. They really overdid it on the buff to this ability. My DK tank can easily hold threat on any single target no matter what the GS of party members is just with Icy Touch spam. It's a lot more boring, but sometimes it was all I could do when I was going as a 3.5k GS tank against 6k+ DPS that refused to throttle their output.
Hoggersbud Jun 1st 2010 12:48PM
Well I don't know about you, but I was just in a group with a DK tank DWing, he couldn't hold threat worth a damn. And he was hard to heal to boot.
So my experience is...DK tank DWing with 2 fast tank weapons? It's going to be a bumpy ride.
MazokuRanma Jun 2nd 2010 4:41PM
Remember to check that the tank is in Frost Presence... the number of idiot DKs that forgot to put their tanking presence up is astounding...
Rob Jun 1st 2010 11:20AM
I'm not sure what this guide is supposed to do. If it's for fresh 80s, its missing the mark unless you assume the player is going to dps his way through a zillion heroics. Irregardless, some things need to be said.
1) Don't tank a heroic until you are defense capped. The tank gear that contains defense will get you enough stamina/crit immunity/other goodies to make you survive a heroic as a tank. Now, can you tank a heroic in ICC dps gear? Yes, probably, since you have a ton of str/stam. But for the starter set, you need to build up.
2) Guides like this are little more than a laundry list, and doesn't really have strong recommendations as far as how to get your starter tank set. For an example, I wrote an extensive level-by-level guide here:
http://doctorsofphilosophy.blogspot.com/2010/05/tanking-fresh-80-deathknight-dk-part-1.html
3) Grab whatever +defense gear you can while leveling, and make sure to get the +defense blues from rep. They are better than what can be crafted by BS.
4) To this, fill in your set with the BS saronite set, plenty of +16 defense gems, and appropriate enchants to get to a point where you have about 25k health and 535 defense. I bought the ilvl 245 bracers, 226 boots, and my engineering 200 helm went a long way to building a tank set.
5) Plan your set well in advance if you want to hit the ground running. I started planning from level 75, and by the time I was 80 I was ready to tank heroics. You can also do normal TOC a few times as dps to build up a tank set. This can be quick and easy (or not, depending on queues).
6) Try to hit a normal dungeon every level. This will give you the emblems to buy one thing right off (I bought the 226 neck), and maybe some defense gear (I never saw any over 10 wraith dungeons)
To me planning my 80 tank set was a ton of fun, and I didn't mind shelling out the dough for it. If you can't do this/don't want to spend the energy, just dps until you have a bunch of heroic tank blues and ideally 4 pieces of EoT gear (i'd recommend shoulder/glove/ring/trinket). You'll save yourself alot of headache if you don't have a decent tank set.
Tom Jun 1st 2010 11:41AM
The Defense cap is impossible to reach with current gear.
The Defense MINIMUM, however, is totally doable and very, very important. It is, after all the MINIMUM you may have and still be a tank. That's 535 for Heroics, 540 for Raids (536 for raids if you're using the PvP shoulder inscription, but if you're geared enough to consider that over the Hodir one then this post isn't aimed at you anyway! :P ).
Bob Dewane Jun 1st 2010 11:36AM
What your guide should cover is the RELENTLESS abuse new DK tanks will take in heroics as they start out. Because of our comparatively lower HP pool, lack of a shield and stigma that comes from too many people thinking they can use their DPS gear to tank as a DK, many people won't even give you a chance.
When I decided to tank on my DK it was only after I had already picked up some decent drops from dungeon runs (mainly in the ICC 5 mans) that the tank in our group didn't want. So my gear was already WAAAAY better than my mains was when I tanked heroics with him when WOTLK first came out. What I hadn't realized, though, was that most people in heroics are there for the daily frost and if they don't think you overgear teh content, then they'll drop and go play a different toon till their deserter debuff wears off.
When I actually found a group that would run with me, I would try to chain run as many in a row as I could. I found that if at least 1 or 2 people stayed then THEY would actually be the ones sticking up for me when the people we'd add to the group questioned my ability to do the job.
DK tanking is fun, though, so have some thick skin and stick with it!
feniks9174 Jun 1st 2010 12:02PM
As a resto Shaman, the only time I have trouble keeping a DK tank alive is if he's a complete moron and just can't tank or if he's heavily undergeared (ie ilvl 200's in heroic PoS on the hill before the tunnel. Even then, I can do it as ling as I'm paying attention and actually trying instead of just facerolling heroics.
Bob Dewane Jun 1st 2010 12:19PM
And let me tell you, feniks...you are the exception to the rule (at least in my experience). On behalf of tanks who understand what we need to do (gear and spec wise, etc.) in order to do our job, thank you.
Atomikus Jun 1st 2010 11:56AM
What about pvp bracers? If you have reached the def cap, grabbing easy honor and equipping some nice stam bracers can help bridge the gap until you get something better.
Tom Jun 1st 2010 12:18PM
They can be useful if they're better than your PvE bracers. In fact, the Resilience on them will lower the amount of Defense you need to become crit-immune.
However, people will give you shit about being under the "Def cap" (everyone is, what they (and you) really mean is the Defense *minimum*), and we all know that explanations, logic, and knowledge have no place in pugs.
David Jun 2nd 2010 12:25AM
I have those PVP bracers and also enchanted them with +40 stamina for a nice boost, it's been well worth it. I am not quite defense capped ( started the day at 509 and I have 525 now) but I had absolutely no issues tanking the heroics assigned to me. You will find that so many people are overgeared for heroic dungeons now that you should have no trouble.
feniks9174 Jun 1st 2010 12:10PM
You didn't mention Quel'serrar from Onyxia. I've been trying to get my hands on both versions from quite some time, if only to walk around Dalaran with glowing awesomeness, but I'd still like to tank with them should they drop. I know that allocation and speed are wierd, but the proc just seems too good to pass up.
Is it just not a viable DK tank weapon? Every time I've tried to find out by asking around or cruising forums, the conversation revolves into how DW tanking is/isn't fail and the other side of the argument is a poster child for birth control.
Tom Jun 1st 2010 12:15PM
It's actually pretty nice, thanks to its slow speed. Just don't count the proc for meeting the Defense minimum, just count it as bonus avoidance (and EH).
feniks9174 Jun 1st 2010 12:33PM
The speed was the part that was throwing me off. At a flat 2.0, it's not quite a fast 1.6, and not quite a slow 2.6, so I was unsure which of the two camps it fell into.
And no, I wasn't going to rely on the proc for making 540 def, but the huge chunk of stamina on them and the proc seems like it would do wonders for my EH, even if the procs don't stack.