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The latest patch 5.4 newsEncrypted Text: Vanish fix in the alpha
by Chase Christian 
Jun 2nd 2010 at 11:00AM
I am not in the Cataclysm alpha. I'm fine with waiting until the official release date to experience the goblin and worgen races first hand and to see the destruction that Deathwing's arrival has wrought upon the world. However, that hasn't stopped me from reading up on any alpha information I can get my hands on. A prepared rogue is a successful rogue, knowledge is power, knowing is half the battle, etc. My curiosity gets the best of me, and I can't help but speculate about the tentative changes that are coming our way.
There is one upcoming item in particular that has me incredibly excited: a possible fix for Vanish. The best part is that's there's even more to it than that: a possible "clutch" ability to replace the old Vanish immunity windows. I can't imagine rogues asking for anything more, considering that guaranteed restealths through Vanish are required for Vanish to remain a powerful cooldown. Let's be honest here -- who has seen a video of a rogue vanishing a Death Coil and not immediately wanted to go try it out? I can tell you that I called my warlock friend up that minute and had him outside of Durotar testing the technique with me. All rogues need is an instant of protection mixed with fast reflexes to get the job done.
What Vanish should do
Vanish should put a rogue into Stealth. I think that's a fairly neutral statement that all classes can agree on. Vanish should remove all movement-impairing effects. Pretty standard, it's part of the spell's design. Vanish should drop all of the rogue's threat. Not like we need this part with Tricks of the Trade, but hey, why not? After that point, things can get sticky. How long should a rogue be able to remain in stealth after a Vanish? Should the spell guarantee an opener? Should it negate any attacks that would bring us out of stealth? These are the questions that the rogue community and the developers wrestle with when trying to figure out exactly what Vanish is even supposed to do.
In this case, Blizzard has tipped their hand -- well, they tipped it to the alpha participants, who tipped it to the public internet. The new Vanish effect guarantees that we'll stay in stealth for a full three seconds after using the ability, regardless of any incoming damage or effects during that time. Now while it's far too early to start speculating about how this change will interact with spells like Flare and Faerie Fire, I think we can make some base assumptions here. Pre-existing debuffs like a DoT should not remove us from stealth for the first three seconds of a Vanish, spells that were in the air like a hunter's shot will strike us but we will remain hidden, and even a mage's furious Arcane Explosion spamming won't cost us the opener.
So we will be guaranteed an opener even against heavy offensive pressure, which rules. However, I am imagining Blizzard removing the immunity portion of Vanish from the table now and allowing all attacks to hit us during the Vanish effect. It's a fair trade, and I would much rather have Vanish do something reliably than pray to the latency gods that I was lucky enough to push "T" before the Death Coil reached me. It even gives Vanish some additional potency when used pre-emptively; a successful pre-Vanish while in stealth could allow you to charge that priest who is spamming Holy Nova and still get the opener. Vanish gives you an opener. I have to say, I'm pretty happy if that becomes the new definition for our signature spell.
Cloak of Shadows gets an upgrade
We knew that a new form of Cloak of Shadows was coming our way via a blue post. It was destined to move to a 100% resist chance; just look at what happened with the old Improved Sap. The randomness of a failed resist was simply too volatile for tournament play. It looks like CoS saw an even bigger bump, though, by inheriting Vanish's old immunity effect. The wording implies it will even make us immune to physical effects for a full second, which would make it the reactionary ability that we've always wanted. Tying it to Cloak of Shadows means that Vanish can be used reliably, and we have to make the decision between using our defensive CoS for a quick immunity burst or a tactical spell resistance period later on.
Is it fair for rogues to have an ability with such power? We're already a one-second GCD class that never has to cast. Why not grant this style of reactive technique to every class? These are tough questions to answer, but I look at it from the perspective of the other classes. Every class has its own flavor, and every class has a variety of defensive cooldowns that work in multiple ways. For example, why complain about rogues gaining a one-second immunity when every paladin gets a 12-second immunity? By putting our special "clutch immunity" effect on CoS, Blizzard is forcing the rogue to choose. We still only get one CoS per minute, and by consolidating our defensive abilities into tactical choices, the rogue PvP game becomes more exciting.
Conclusion
There's no more guessing about what Vanish is supposed to do: it grants us an opener. There's no more guessing about the proper way to avoid a Death Coil: pop Cloak of Shadows, or don't. Rogue retain all of the flavor that we've come to love, but Blizzard allows us to use Vanish for what it's actually meant to do instead of saving it for some showoff technique while we're running FRAPS. Rogues get a reliable and intentional immunity that comes with a cost that balances it, and we don't even need to add a keybind to do it. Blizzard needed to break Vanish and its immunity effect to balance it, and it looks like they've taken a smart approach to resolving this issue for good. Whether or not these changes will make it to release is another story altogether.
Are you a rogue looking to up your game? Check back every Wednesday for the latest strategies in Encrypted Text! Get ready for Icecrown Citadel with our guide for rogues, part 1 and part 2 (Plagueworks), part 3 (Crimson Halls) and part 4 (Frostwing Halls). Just hit 80 and need information? Check out our rogue lessons: Combat 101 or Mutilate 101 for all you need to know to get started.Filed under: Rogue, (Rogue) Encrypted Text
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
Rawrther Jun 7th 2010 12:43AM
Maybe after they fix vanish they can fix blink so I don't blink into backstabs at the wsg tunnel :p
Glaras Jun 2nd 2010 12:37PM
This is a good thing only if stunlock gets nerfed.
I notice that you used the paladin's 12-second immunity as a justification for Vanish's 3-second window. Paladins are also a class widely acknowledged to be ridiculously overpowered in common PVP. (Note that it's "common PVP", which is different from arena.) I think the comparison's apt, but the justification is thin.
Look, I play a shaman. We're not one of those classes with the toolbag full of defensive cooldowns you mention. All I know is that, gear being equal, if I draw down on a rogue and let loose my array of burst damage spells, I *might* kill him. But if he's going to get a guaranteed opener, I'm screwed without someone to peel him off me. And yes, I know, it's been stated over and over that PVP isn't balanced for 1v1... a statement usually repeated by the winners in 1v1 encounters as a way to explain the ganking their target just received.
I'm not asking for an insta-kill ability against rogues. I'm asking for a decent fighting chance. If the Vanish fix comes in, with the improvement to CoS, and the stunlock remains in place, it just means I'll be dying faster and more often. And while I'm sure that brings a smile to your face, it just means more frustration for me in an area where I'm already dealing with tons of it.
Chase Christian Jun 2nd 2010 12:48PM
The massive life pools in Cataclysm (tanks with 100k life in blues at level 85) and slower pace of PvP should definitely help nerf the stunlock and give opponents the opportunity to react and spend some quality time unstunned. :)
clundgren Jun 2nd 2010 1:59PM
Having started taking my rogues into some BGs, I can testify that rogues>all, paladins included, in pvp. I got Wrecking Ball in my first WSG. It was great! (Actually, I don't consider paladins that big a deal in any sort of pvp, to be honest -- they are a pain to kill but their damage output is kinda limited and they are easy to escape...except holy paladins. They kick ass).
This fix to Vanish will be a definite boon, but, as Chase points out, life pools will be huge, so unless dps goes commensurately up, and indications are that it won't, then stunlock is being effectively nerfed to compensate.
The one second full immunity does becomes an effective uber-cleanse, however. Given Blizzard's recent statements about the need to limit dispels, this seems like an odd ability for them to add to a class when they are nerfing dispels almost everywhere else.. Or am I missing something?
Grubba Jun 3rd 2010 4:08AM
Yes, you are: careful reading. You're crossing what you read about the changes to cloak of shadows with what you read about the changes to vanish.
dpoyesac Jun 2nd 2010 12:48PM
Here's my real issue with this:
A hunter's Deterrence has the same latency issue as Vanish. Plenty of times I have hit Deterrence reactively and STILL died because that Pally Hammer or mage barrage was already in the air. (Feign Death is like Vanish also -- it can come down to the whim of the latency gods whether you can FD out of a cast.)
So if Blizz are going to fix & improve CloS AND Vanish are we hunters going to be left with the same so-called 'broken' mechanics?
It's almost as annoying as that one time when rogues got a copy of our signature move, except theirs was SO MUCH BETTER that Blizz just replaced our Misdirection with a watered-down Tricks of the Trade...
Garrett Jun 2nd 2010 1:18PM
Once again, the purpose of vanish is not to avoid damage, but it is for the purpose of re entering stealth for the availability of several rogue abilities they otherwise do not have access to.
Think of it this way. A warrior is in battle stance, but now wants to use intercept or something (fyi I have a poor understanding of warriors so I have no idea if this is done or not). The warrior activates zerker stance but immediatly gets knocked back into battle stance and is stuck there for 3 minutes or untill he leaves combat. Kind of annoying I would think
Just an example and is by no means a complete comparison.
Stealth is a rogues bread and butter. They are a lackluster class without it and its steath attacks.
Jennifer Jun 2nd 2010 1:07PM
Non-disclosure agreement, anyone?
Seriously, we're all eager for information on Cataclysm, but is it really so hard to respect Blizzard's legal agreements and NOT post information about Alpha?
Rajah Jun 2nd 2010 5:27PM
Nothing here is violating the NDA.
theRaptor Jun 2nd 2010 8:10PM
And NDA's only apply to the people who signed them.
Zilch Jun 2nd 2010 1:09PM
Next on the list: Blink finally works right!
Oriflame Jun 2nd 2010 1:34PM
I'm interested to see the acompanying balancing that comes with rogues having several immunities, 50% damage reduction, etc...
If this vanish change goes live, clarifying what vanish "should" do, I'd really love to see the same applied to trinkets - if vanish "should" get you an opener, then trinkets "should" keep you out of stun for at least one GCD. I mean, if I trinket while a crowd control spell is being cast, the trinket is wasted. Same thing as Vanish if you do it while a spell is in the air today. I don't see why this fix shouldn't be universalized. I think everyone likes it more when they hit buttons and something actually happens.
theRaptor Jun 2nd 2010 8:17PM
Trinket is reactive, vanish is mostly proactive. And that change isn't needed as stuns aren't going to be the core of PVP in cata.
Oriflame Jun 3rd 2010 1:37PM
Vanishing a death coil is about the same as trinketing a fear... not really a more proactive/reactive approach.
Also, stuns will be core to PVP so long as they, you know, stun people - but I meant to target the comment more broadly at having the trinket work long enough to get an action off.
Oriflame Jun 2nd 2010 1:35PM
A reasonable suggestion, but an Chase hasn't signed an NDA, so he's free to discuss any rumors or other stuff he has heard.
Athlete Jun 2nd 2010 5:13PM
I'm not a huge fan of these changes and I'll explain why:
I think allowing them to sit in stealth for 3 seconds regardless of and damage being done to them is basically like giving them another 3 second BoP except it doesn't clear any physical effects and will allow their healer to get some huge heals off in a clutch situation. Plus they can do it twice.
I don't think the spell has been described as "a way for a rogue to use another opener", that's what the sub tree is for. BUT if that's what they want the spell to be, why not just allow them to use all openers after vanishing for 3 seconds out of stealth? That means if a move hits them that brings them out of stealth then they can still cheap or whatever they intended.
If you are trying to escape combat, which is what I have always thought the move was for, then maybe you shouldn't be using it with a zillion dots on you or while a onslaught of projectiles are heading your way, use it while LoS.
These are my two cents.
(I know that the changes aren't taking effect until Cataclysm and at that point all my points could be completely null because 3 seconds may not mean the match in a Cataclysm arena game. So I am aware that I should, and everyone else should, just "Wait and see.")
theRaptor Jun 2nd 2010 8:16PM
Any rogue worth his daggers clears DoTs with CoS. The problem at the moment is that Blizzards net code is sloppy and trusts the client. If the client says "My player hits that rogue with a frostbolt at 1:27:0032" the server does very little checking to verify that this is true and that the rogue wasn't LoS CoS or had hit vanish at 1:26:5000. This was why hunters pets, auto attacks and shots in the air could hit a rogue which had already vanished.
The problem was that to the rogue that hit vanished he looked entirely in the clear. But due to Blizzards sloppy netcode* he gets knocked out of vanish when he thought he was clear.
* Which gives us teleport hacks as well.
White Rabbit Jun 2nd 2010 2:21PM
I'd prefer the immunity during vanish because far too often if something goes wrong in a raid and the big scary boss turns to face me, I'm sick and tired of vanishing and still getting one-shot.
Edge Jun 2nd 2010 5:50PM
Hmm, don't have CoS yet on my rogue, are both on GCD, or could you use both at once?
Dave Jun 2nd 2010 3:41PM
Have you tried the new and improved VANISH! It slices, it dices, it even keeps you from being sliced and diced! It's AMAZING!!!!! And that's not all, for a limited time (3 seconds)YOU will be immune to all stealth breaking mechanics! Think of the possibilities! YOU can re-open on that pesky hunter! YOU can finally escape that blizzard, holy nova, rain of fire, et al! YOU could have time to make a SAMICH! (A really fast one). All this and MORE can be yours! Pre-order your new and improved VANISH! today! Operators are standing by. CALL NOW!
New and improved VANISH! is brought to you by those happy folks at Blizzard Inc., making this a better world for rogues everywhere. And remember, if it's not today, then it's Soon TM.