Skip to Content
6-02-2010 @ 11:57AM
Hey Rogue community - clarify this for me if you could because I've never really got my head around the vanish bug, or why it's such a big deal. Genuinely interested here.I think I understand what happens when you use Vanish on Live servers - you Vanish, but a DoT, AoE, spell still travelling to you, or instant attack with poor latency pulls you out of stealth. This is the problem?If I'm already made a mistake then please offer any clarification you can.Assuming I haven't made a mistake yet -How is this any more a bug than, say, a Shadow Priest using Fade but being instantly re-snared, or - I'm exaggerating a little - even just a Healer healing themselves and being instantly damaged again?Is Vanish supposed to guarantee stealth for a certain amount of time?Or is the problem simply that it's a poor game mechanic because it fails so often, and that it /should/ guarantee stealth if it's going to not suck?I.e. is it working as intended but bad, or not working as intended?And what leads us to think it's one rather than the other?
6-02-2010 @ 12:07PM
That's the core issue here: people have mixed ideas on what Vanish *should* be doing. Some people thought it should just be a one-time ability to enter stealth, and that if you were instantly knocked out by an auto-attack or a hunter pet, that was just too bad. Some people thought it should be a full 10 seconds of guaranteed stealth. What good was entering stealth at all if you're immediately knocked out by uncontrollable forces? We're talking more about auto-attacks, missiles in the air, pets who don't stop chasing you, etc. Obviously getting AoE'd out was a tactic the opponent could use.Blizzard has answered the question: Vanish is meant to give rogues an opener, and a 3-second window in which to perform that opener.
6-02-2010 @ 12:19PM
Blizzard has said on numerous occasions that Vanish has never truly worked as intended. And you hit the nail on the head, it's a poor game mechanic.As to whether or not they are really fixing it in Cataclysm ... I'll believe it when I see it.
6-02-2010 @ 12:21PM
What vanish is supposed to do, mechanics-wise, is put the rogue into stealth, take the rogue out of combat, and cause anyone targeting the rogue to drop target.Further mechanics do not allow players to cast certain abilities when they do not have a target, but because vanish runs into latency issues, it allows those spell to continue casting (or melee swings to continue) after the rogue has vanished and should no longer be targeted. Other spells, like fade may have similiar issues where timing is very very important. I think the difference is that vanish is a game breaker; if a vanish fails, a larger portion of the rogues toolbox is now out of reach. that being the ability to open again with the attacks only usable when in stealth. Fade is used to midigate damage primarily, which is why mr. Christian argues that it is only fair vanish does not allow rogues to become immune to damage, because that's not the purpose of vanish.
6-02-2010 @ 12:25PM
Vanish is meant to put you back into stealth.It increases stealth to such a level for a few seconds you will not be seen.However it is broken so:- Attacks in the air still hit and break it- Attacks made during the time span of clicking vanish and the effect occuring still hit, breaking it- Targeting is not dropped all the time though the rogue has a stealth level much greater than any detectable level and may be hit by an effect used after they vanished including standard melee attacks.- Pets of all kinds do not drop target and will give chase, hit, and remove stealthRemember vanish is a hinge ability.It's an advanced form of feign death.It used to have a reagent cost on top of the cool down, now dropped to 3 minutes, because it was intended to be a strong ability.In the case of a resnare, note that vanish can break while the animation is running thus giving none of its benefits but burning a 3 minute timer.In comparison to a heal, well if you cast it and lost the health due to a hit, that's normal mechanics. You gained the benefit of your ability. Vanish breaking is often complete happen stance and does not give you the benefit of the ability.As to how it's known to be broken is that Blizzard has admitted that it is broken and has been for a very long time. They have been trying to fix it but have been wary of how they do so or it will become over powered.
6-02-2010 @ 12:35PM
Vanish is just broken. Example.Rogue vs. Hunter.Fight starts. Rogue wants to vanish and get away. He uses Cloak of Shadows(removes any DoTs and Hunter's Mark) and sprints away. Uses Vanish. He is now supposed to be safely out of sight. (unless a Shot is fired knocking him out of stealth).However, The Hunter's Pet magically still can see the rogue even in stealth. The pet follows, attempting to attack. The rogue must run away until the pet stops following to avoid an auto attack, effectively breaking stealth.I did some research and this was supposedly addressed in the bugs section of the 2.2 Patch notes. Not sure If it that fixed it or not however.
6-02-2010 @ 12:45PM
Not to mention Vanish has a 3 minute cd (2 when talented). Fade has 30 second cd (15 sec glyphed and talented) and mentions nothing about being immune to snares for any sort of duration. The point of being in stealth is to not be targeted and therefor not being able to be hit by anything.If Blizz wanted to lower the cooldown to say 30 sec(?) then I'm perfectly ok with getting knocked out of stealth by a Hunter's arrow a full 2 seconds after I pop Vanish. But to use my main "Get Me Out Of Trouble" button and have it fail a lot just seems unfair to me. Chase made a great point - What's the point of using Vanish if I'm just going to be unstealthed by something that's not player controlled? (You fail if you try to Vanish with a DoT on you) Then Vanish becomes as useful as the Sentry Totem.
6-02-2010 @ 1:22PM
Thanks for the great answers.I think it's odd you guys call it a bug - seems to me it's more a case of a poor/unbalanced mechanic - but glad I understand it more clearly.Rogues have always been a very "technical" class in PvP compared to others - you play a lot more on the fringes of of the code - Vanishing Death coils, using the ability to get out of combat to allow restealth, use sap etc.As a result I suppose it makes sense that something like this would be seen as a "bug" rather than just a balance issue. I think most other classes would not call it a "bug", but I think that's a matter of class culture - I don't mean this in any kind of derogatory way.
6-02-2010 @ 1:33PM
No you're totally right. People who don't play a Rogue don't understand how frustrating it is when Vanish doesn't actually make you vanish. They just /laugh.
6-02-2010 @ 2:19PM
Blizzard calls it a bug. It's a bug.
6-02-2010 @ 2:58PM
As a Warlock I'm torn. I've spent enough time playing a friend's rogue to agree vanish is broken and needs fixing but I think this may be too much. 3 second immunity means no chance to aoe and bring you back out, as a lock if a rogue is able to open on you twice the fight is lost (assuming they are good). I also see using dots to force a cloak if they want to vanish as a viable strategy. Rogues already have a lot of tools against squishy casters, this tips the balance too far.
First time? A confirmation email will be sent to you after submitting.
Members enter your username and password.
Enter your AOL or AIM screenname and password.
Please keep your comments relevant to this blog entry. Email addresses are never displayed, but they are required to confirm your comments.
When you enter your name and email address, you'll be sent a link to confirm your comment, and a password. To leave another comment, just use that password.
To create a live link, simply type the URL (including http://) or email address and we will make it a live link for you. You can put up to 3 URLs in your comments. Line breaks and paragraphs are automatically converted — no need to use <p> or <br /> tags.