Gold Capped: The pinch

I've spent the last few months describing different ways to make money. I've also touched on auction house "PvP" a bit but haven't talked about it in depth. The reality is that when you post something for sale, every sale you make is a sale your competitors don't make. The reason I got involved with the AH and in-game economy at the beginning was that I needed money and hated farming. The reason I stayed? My competition.
You know that feeling you get when you are in a battleground and everything just lines up, and you win? That feeling is what I get when I empty my mailboxes every morning. Playing the AH would be much less rewarding if there were no competition.
The most common wrong way to compete
I've said this before, but it bears repeating. If you have to camp the auction house to make a sale, you are doing it wrong. The auction house is designed so that buyers can sort their search results so that the cheapest items appear first. If you are pricing something just barely under what your competitor is posting at, you're asking to be undercut right back. Especially if you're competing in a market where the deposit fees are low and there's a reduced cost to cancel and relist.
This nickel-and-diming may make you feel clever, but don't be fooled. Even if you just sit in the AH watching your auctions, cancel/relisting them when they're undercut, you're making less gold than you would by spending this time doing something more productive. In most markets, most of the time, the most money per hour can be gotten from undercutting by a non-trivial amount. This makes your competitors have to work much harder to re-undercut you.
So what can you do? Aside from pricing your goods to move, there are some other tactics you can use to help your profits and hurt your competitors'. The most effective one is to squeeze their supply. You have two types of competitors: the ones who buy mats and craft, and the ones who farm mats and craft. I'll start with the farmers. How can you compete with free?
Competitors who farm
Farmed mats are not free! The fact that some people think they are just means you have an advantage over them. A typical situation I've seen is where someone farming, say, herbs is selling, say, flasks. You calculate your cost based on the cost (or AH value) of the herbs you use. All of a sudden, someone lists a largish batch at just under your cost. You buy it out, and they relist another batch. At some point, one of you sends a tell to the other, and your competitors smugly informs you that they will always be the lowest price on the AH because "farmed mats are free." Reply with an "OK, you win. /sigh," and keep buying them out.
Farmed mats are worth what they sell for on the AH. The opportunity cost of using the herbs in the above example for flasks is what your esteemed competitor would have made selling the mats instead of the flasks. Of course, if he keeps listing, you'll eventually have more than you could ever sell, right? Wrong. Real players have limits on how much they can grind in a day. Chances are that's much less than you can make from AH purchased mats. Keep buying them out until they run dry, and then maybe send them a thank-you note for having reduced your costs.
Competitors who craft
Much harder to deal with are crafting competitors. These guys have the same sources, resources, addons, information and skills you do. Tightening their supply is an excellent tactic to use, however. Assuming you're not on a realm where it's physically impossible to exhaust the farmers, you can accomplish a lot in a lot of markets by simply figuring out a choke point in the production of whatever market you're fighting over and buy it all out.
Again using my above example: A bunch of flasks take Lichbloom, a moderately rare herb that's used for a lot of things. If you decide to choke your competitors on this, you'll need to buy out all the reasonably priced supply for long enough that they run out of stock and have to buy more at higher prices on the AH.
Now this is actually not the ideal market to get started in with this tactic for a few reasons. Mainly, most serious herb buyers rarely buy off the AH and instead buy directly from the farmers. In this case, your competitor's farmer has to check the AH to see that he's getting fleeced. Additionally, not a lot of people have the cash needed to strangle the supply of as large a market as Lichbloom. Still, if you are feeling adventurous, just make sure you get the stock on both factions or else someone will just make a killing moving stock over to your side.
A much better example of a market like this is the Essence of Fire. It's only farmable in rarely frequented old world instances and is a critical ingredient for some very popular markets, including fiery weapons and Fused Wiring (a component for several markets). All you need to do to knock someone out of the fiery enchant market is to make these cost way too much by buying everything below a threshold.
What's caveat venditor mean?
The universal problem with trying to choke your competitors through their supply is that it encourages people to farm more and raise prices. I used to mine a lot of ore in The Burning Crusade, and nothing made me happier than when someone tried this. In fact, I would make a point of always keeping a bunch of stacks of (at the time) Adamantite Ore in my bank, just in case I'd ever find someone dumb enough to pay four times the market price for them. You can never do this for long, so make it count. Constrain supply for a couple of days before Tuesday's AH rush only if you will make back your investment during the rush.
Filed under: Economy, Gold Capped
Patch 5.3 interview with Ghostcrawler
Mystery of the Unborn Val'kyr
The latest patch 5.3 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria news





Reader Comments (Page 3 of 3)
Lars Petersson Jun 2nd 2010 11:28PM
Heh heh, I wouldn't be surprised if he'd be proud if you outdid him at his own game by following his own advice ^_^
You guys must be on a server with a huge population.
Terokkar only have about 2700 level 80 hordies :-/
Edge Jun 2nd 2010 10:33PM
This all sounds a little too much like work to me, no disrespect. Of course my 1000g in liquid assets probably would feel emasculated next to yours, hehe. Hey I just bought Epic flight on my second toon ok!! :)
Axolotl Jun 3rd 2010 3:28AM
How about a reference to Just My Two Copper and the JMTC Forums?
(even if wow.com hates Just My Two Copper according to Markco :-D )
Crafting can make you lots of gold mid-expansion, but at the start it's gatherers that make "the gold" (since people tend to sell crafted goods at cost in the beginning of an expansion, just to try for the FIRST achievements), mid expansion everyone is leveled up and wants to go raiding (so they start by buying crafted gear), near the end of the expansion, packrats make gold, because they stock up on the discount-sales everyone is trying to get rid of (preparing for the next xpac) and they release it back to the market when nobody farms their stuff anymore.
For lazy people: Get a transmute-specced alchemist and a jewelcrafter and you're making 1000G per week without any real effort. (Yes, inscription can probably make you more gold, but it's an intensive market that requires "doing it wrong" since there's lots of undercutting)
Basil Berntsen Jun 3rd 2010 10:06AM
FYI- I do a podcast with Markco and hang out in the JMTC chat all the time :)
Ðøøm Jun 3rd 2010 4:23AM
Rather than buying out ALL of a item, buy out enough so that it's not profitable any more.
For example, on Enchanting scrolls it's easy.
There's generally 30-50 abyss crystals from 20-40 gold on the AH. I buy them all up to 40g (Generally have an average unit cost of ~28g) and leave the rest, because over 40g is way overpriced.
Then I make a few enchant scrolls: Berserking, Black Magic, Powerful Stats, Staff - Greater Spellpower to use some of them up.
I then sell them with a clear pricing strategy.
For example,
Generally people list Berserking for 550-600g which is fairly expensive.
I now list Berserking for 450g, it cost me roughly 360 to make so it's a reasonable profit.
Then I re-list my remaining abyss crystals at 39g.
The great thing here is:
-If people buy the mats for Berserking it costs them over 450g, my buyout price for the scroll, which means 2 things: 1) My scroll sells faster because it looks like a great deal. 2) Nobody can undercut me by buying mats from the AH.
If people buy the crystals I'm still making money.
Of course the crystals get undercut fairly quickly, but the price stays artificially high for at least the evening.
I just wait for the market to go back down and start again. I don't even lose money on AH deposits for the crystals which don't sell.
Fun stuff.
steve23094 Jun 3rd 2010 5:10AM
I'm not convinced by all of this talk of AH strategies.
I have a funny feeling it is all dependant on living in a high population server. My server is low population and the AH is never consistent and with prices all over the place. I sometimes put something up that I know should be popular and is a good deal and it gets returned to me unsold time and again.
Part of the problem on our server is that many crafters offer their services for free through trade. Even for those that charge would anyone ever make money sitting around in city advertising 15g for a jem cut on a low pop. server (ie not many takers) when they could be doing something else? I doubt it. I am frugal in life and frugal in game and refuse to pay for a simple jem cut when I can get it done for free through my guild. I will give a small tip for other stuff if no-one else has the pattern in guild (but they normally do). I realise that I am part of the problem.
I can imagine a high population server would ensure a more balanced market with consistent sell through of items but at a lower profit margin. A low pop. server means wildly fluctuating prices and low sales, making all these tactics of strangling markets very dangerous. Nobody likes to be left holding the baby.
I mine as I fly about on my daily business, dropping down to pick up ores. It doesn't really take much more of my time and breaks up the monotany of just heading straight from A to B over the same scenery I have seen time and time again. I have an alt who disenchants all my green BOEs I discover during questing and sells the enchant mats, I vendor BOPs and blue BOEs go onto the AH. I make 200g to 500g a day depending on my luck.
Zilch Jun 3rd 2010 9:59AM
Not at all. I play on a relatively low-population server alliance side, and decidedly low-pop horde side.
While it is true that I move a lot more goods on the alliance, I make close to the same amount of gold horde side. Somehow even with the lower population, hordies seem to just as much money. Not to mention that there are less competitors =P
Low population means less sales, but higher prices due to less competition. Works great for me =)
Kassima Jun 3rd 2010 10:04AM
I so badly wish I had a mind for this stock trading type way of handling AH and making gold.
Over 7 chars I only have about 20k, and that's been saved up from dailies, selling the odd fish or gem (from emblems), some titanium ore stacks every now and then.... and thats as far as I can get.
The reason being, I really suck at this whole AH game thing, when I try to farm, I find very soon that the item that used to be well sought after has become overly abbundant on AH. When I try the enchanters scroll vs live craft thing, I always find sum1 else apparently lvling enchanting with a 100 of those scrolls on AH and mats wasted right there.
I don't know what I'm missing, but I really just can't get the hang of it.
WTB Trader Skillz, pst
Danafi Jun 3rd 2010 3:21PM
What I found was you have to keep feeling out a market at first. I too tried the enchanting scrolls and promptly got hosed by the people already there. I got into a Scroll of Enchant Weapon - Crusader undercutting war and me and two other people brought the price down from 250g to 85g before I bailed out. I am making CRAZY money on my cooking up the Pet Food, the mammoth meat sell for 8g a stack and the cooked food with 1 northern spice each sells for 49g!!!! Free gold right there!
I cannot recommend Auctioneer, lil Sparky's workshop and Market Watch enough! Start out by doing scans for about week and then when you have a whole week picture start out making stuff and work from there.
Christopher Freeman Jun 3rd 2010 1:19PM
@Iceypro
/Salute
Thank you, I do disagree with you on one point. As much as I love to farm, I spend at least an hour a day working the auction house. I enjoy these articles, and have learned a great deal.
:-)
Danafi Jun 3rd 2010 3:16PM
Now Basil, I love you articles and they have really helped me start off my AH career, but I have to know, what to do when the supplies dry up? You've said numerous times that farming is not worth it, but I come from a low pop server and there is periods of days where either there are no mats on AH or they are selling at 500% market value. Right now I am in a 2 day dry spot were all three of the markets I usually sell in, crafting for DE, Frozen Orb turn over at Frodo and cooking raid food, are out of mats.
I tried looking for farmers but they all seem to be fair weather farmers when I message them only do it when they feel like. I log on three times a day to look for mats, morning, right after work and just before bed. The supplies are acting as a bottle neck to my profits which is annoying. Do you have tips for setting up a steady supply of mats?
James Riggs Jun 4th 2010 10:09AM
So what happened to "Trying to force a price up to a certain level by buying out all your competition is an effort that's doomed to fail."
As seen http://www.wow.com/2010/05/20/gold-capped-market-timing/
You folks need to get your stories straight
Bronwyn Jun 8th 2010 12:54PM
I'm sure Basil will have a better explanation than I can come up with, but we'll use the example that comes to mind from an Insider Trader column a few weeks ago...
Lets say you are selling Glacial Bags (this is something I've got experience with). As time goes on, the price is going to go down, especially with undercutting and whatnot. Right now it wavers between 300-450g a pop on my server. Now, you're not going to force the price of Glacial Bags up higher by buying out all your competition so you can relist at a high price- they're just going to be encouraged and list their next glacial bag maybe at the same price, but definitely undercut, and probably make a nice profit from the cloths that sell for about 20-30g on my server (of which you need 8 if I'm recalling correctly)
Now, the idea would be to try to dominate the materials- but the ebonweave and moonshroud up so that the supply is artificially low, and then anyone who wants to buy materials for the bags is forced to pay more- you can take it a step further and try to lower the supply of the component materials for the cloth as well, making it less profitable and less likely that people are going to compete.
The other thing you really need to remember is that you can't use these guides as-is and just assume they are going to work; you need to feel out your server a bit. Hell, you might even end up losing some gold. But really, in the end, even if you lost some gold on whatever it was you bought, you're probably making more on other things.
alan090179 Jul 12th 2010 9:13PM
I Think playing the ah is fun and can be very rewarding (you know this is coming) BUT ....
the majority of players who dominate the AH market are guys like you, who have driven up the price of even the most mundane things to extortionate prices... congrats .... its only going to be people who have been playing the game for a long time and usually have multi characters and/or accounts.
Don't get me wrong, this is great forall the guys who do the same thing, everyone wins in the end and the money flows ... but these extortionate prices are well beyond the means of new players. Sure these newbies can look up and find out how its done and ever so slowly the get the hang of it and they start playing the same game, but in doing so the prices continue to rise.
Guys, personally I think its about time that those with the power start using it responsibly. Today for example, I saw Linen Cloth being sold on ah for 120gp per stack,
I mean really, we know its not going to sell, but its just and example of what I mean about the prices going crazy! wool cloth minimum price at the moment is at 1gp50sp per item, and some of the lowest gems (ie moss agate, tigerseye etc) are being sold for 9 or 10gp each! Seriously, its killing the newer players to the game, its becoming increasingly difficult for them to even buy a single item so that they can level up their skills unless they go out and grind it constantly themselves, who cares right? and before you say it, No we didn't have to go out and grind it all, when I first started, sure some of the items came on at high prices but in the main, it was fairly decently priced. When we needed to just get a couple of items off AH so that we could level up a skill by a couple of points, more than likely we needed to save a bit but it could be done easily in few hours of play.
Now, these new players have to work for days just to buy a single item off of the ah.
This is a GAME guys, you don't need Millions of gold pieces sitting in your bank .... its really sad to see a game that I once loved slowly going down the pan due to greedy, unscrupulous players who have mostly been playing this game for years, and like me can remember those decent days of reasonably priced items on the ah, but for some reason, now that they have reached the lofty heights of having several characters at level 80, got all the gear they could want now dominate the ah as if it were real life.
What makes me laugh the most is that I only came back on because I was given 7 days free, in an attempt to draw me back to the game after not having played it in nearly a year.
I thought, Hell, why not ... lets see if they have spiced it up any in all this time (basically I got bored and found that all of the updates had made the game too easy... amongst other reasons). To be honest, it wasn't much of a surprise to see it hadn't got any better but had in fact gotten worse .... and then I went on to ah (because one of my characters is a lowly level 40ish paly miner/Bs) and was disgusted at the prices on there (even though I do have a few hundred on that character, I wasn't going to waste it at the prices I was seeing)
I think that between all of my characters, I probably have a few thousand gold ... never been too interested to add it all up .... which compared to most people these days, is completely insignificant BUT guys, its no wonder that this game has earned the title "where 40 year old virgins unite"
Don't get me wrong, its great that you guys are SO involved in the game... I think its a tribute to the designers of the game. You want to be multi-millionaires on a computer game? Great, go for it! But how about you all do it in a sensible way, that allows those newbies to come on and enjoy the game as much as you guys do .... how about for example, you don't just dominate but actually have some sort of organisation that spreads across how ever many guilds and determine to keep a stable economy.
otherwise I see a time coming when the flow of new players will slowly dwindle and then it wont be the "40 year old virgins" it will be the 50 ... then the 60 ... obviously I doubt that you guys would be sad enough to keep going that long .... well most of ..... well some ... ok a couple of you wont, but also I dont think that Blizzard will keep a game going once the sales figures start going down hill, They will just come up with something new and start again. Its down to you guys to make the worlds of Kalimdor and ..... the other one .... a decent place and stable place that people want to come to, at the moment its like the dark-ages, all anarchy and tiny little fiefdoms. Make it a United states/United nations or what ever .... you old timers could really DO something with this game instead of accumulating wealth like tight fisted misers, squabbling over the scraps and slowly killing the game from the inside out (while blizzard do it from the outside in!)
Any way, I am more than sure that you have heard more than enough from me!
just as I am more that sure that many will disagree (or just piss themselves laughing) but whatever, enjoy your game, I'll see you around (well probably not ... unless you leave that computer some time)
Take care one and all
See you next tuesday seignor ;o)