WoW Rookie: When to use trinkets with Bloodlust / Heroism
by Lisa Poisso 
Jun 3rd 2010 at 9:00AM
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We're taking a break from bare-bones basics this week to address a topic that pops up for fresh level 80s who are still adjusting to their new curve of power. When is the best time to use long-cooldown abilities, trinkets or anything else that provides a massive, temporary boost in power? (The quick, easy answer: Regularly. Unused abilities that you're saving "just in case" tend to remain ... well, unused.) Things get more complicated, though, when you're juggling cooldowns in a raid group that's savvy to the benefits of a well-timed Heroism (Alliance) or Bloodlust (Horde). When is the right time to go for broke?
Join us for a quick roundup of thoughts from WoW.com staffers, after the break.Dear Glorious WoW.com Writers,
I have a question on my mind that I suspect a lot of other people have on their minds as well. Should DPS pop their cooldowns/trinkets during Bloodlust or after Bloodlust? I would think you should stack your cooldowns with Bloodlust because you get the effect of them plus 30% haste, increasing their effect by that much. On the other hand, maybe the wiser option is to use cooldowns after bloodlust, so you have the effect of the Bloodlust then the effect of the cooldowns, which spreads it out a little more. What are factors in deciding to use cooldowns with Bloodlust or after Bloodlust? Does mana limits factor in to this at all? I can't find a straight answer on the internet anywhere, and was hoping you could provide me with one.
Thank you,
Bownzy of Blackwing Lair (US)
Should you pop your trinkets and cooldowns during or after Herolust?
Matt Low: During Bloodlust.
Matthew Rossi: It actually depends on fight duration and length of cooldowns. For instance, on BQL, I use my DPS cooldowns right at the start of the fight, because they'll be back by the time we pop Hero. Any fight with longer than three minutes between the start of the fight and a Lust/Hero phase, you should use them twice.
Daniel Whitcomb: Generally, I recommend death knights do it all at once, especially since the only way Gargoyle and Dancing Rune Weapon get buffed by Heroism/Bloodlust is if they're popped while you're buffed with it. Generally, though, it seems like the idea once Bloodlust/Heroism is popped is to get the boss burned down ASAP, and popping trinkets/haste potions/major cooldowns helps get that going. I even made "pop during Heroism/Bloodlust" macros for my Lichborne elementary macro article.
Rich Maloy: I try to time as many on-use abilities (Sham Rage + Troll 'zerk + trinkets) with Hero/BL, plus Potions of Speed. I've been watching my weapon speed during recent attempts and have not reached the haste cap (floor?). We announce when BL will be used before the fight starts so people can time out their CDs. We try to use BL either early or late. Early means all trinky/CDs are available. Late means enough time to use them one to two times before we pop it off.
Also, haste is multiplicative, not additive, so it makes sense to stack it and other abilities.
Chase Christian: Rossi's got the right idea: Either Bloodlust immediately with cooldowns, or at 3 minutes with the second round of cooldowns. Bink at EJ did the math; it's better to use Lust/Hero with cooldowns than it is to wait for 35/20% boss life, so 0/3/6 minutes are the ideal times. That way, your DPS can always pop their CDs when available, and BL will always sync up with those.
Michael Gray: I would caveat: If it's a boss whose last quarter/third of life means the tank is getting hammered by a freight train, and the tank or healer is having trouble with that phase, save the BL/Heroism to minimize your exposure to that risk. Raids with dead tanks do 0 damage.
Fox Van Allen: I generally find that in real-world practice, adding haste bonuses on top of haste bonuses for DPS is a bad idea -- it mostly magnifies latency and makes your occasional mistakes all the more pronounced. I generally use Wild Magic during Heroism and recommend others do as well -- that way you get a nice synergistic effect between the haste, crit and SP without the frenzied button-pushing. It's one of those situations that theorycrafting just can't model exactly.
Mana limits don't factor at all into Heroism unless you're already having significant mana issues with your character. Running the numbers in my head, Heroism equals ... what, an extra 12 seconds' worth of mana use? How many people cut it that close? Besides, even if you are having those mana management issues, you should still be going all out for Heroism. Save mana management for when you're casting at normal speed and can't benefit from cooldown synergy.
Are the sounds of "Herolust" your cue to pop your own cooldowns? Let us know what strategies have worked best for you in the comments.
Visit the WoW Rookie Guide for links to all our tips, tricks and how-to's. WoW Rookie walks you through all sort of new-player concerns, from game lingo for the beginner to joining your first guild as a mid-level player and on to what to do when you finally hit level 80.Filed under: WoW Rookie
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Crimson Jun 3rd 2010 9:15AM
Make sure all the pets and temporary summons are out and summoner so they get the benefit of Herolust as well.
As for all the temporary buffs, well Herolust is poped usually during the burn phase, so what better time to pop it then the time you need to burn the boss down ASAP. Sometimes a Herolust is the last chance of administering loot or administering revives after a raid wipe to an enraged boss.
Plus the numbers on the dps charts would make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside ;)
Brewa Jun 3rd 2010 9:17AM
For the feral kitty druids out there. I'd very much advise against using Bezerk during bloodlust. The increase in your white attacks will greatly increase the chances of Omen of Clarity procs. Berzerk halves the costs of your yellow attacks, which means you may be "wasting" your berzerk time because more of your attacks will be "free."
Tiger's Fury is a little more debatable due to the increase in attack power it causes. My advice with it, is to use it like always, if it pops up and you happen to be low on energy due to not enough ooc procs, then pop it for the extra energy. Otherwise, hold it until you are low on energy. This is purely from my own experience though. Don't have any numbers to back it up right now. Might look into it though.
Jorges Jun 3rd 2010 9:58AM
I can confirm this.
I've read the same info somewhere on EJ. Out of curiosity I made some testing myself on the dummy with a shammy guildie, and yeah, OOC procs a lot more (sometimes so fast that you can't use all the procs). Sometimes it doesn't proc too much, do the RNG nature of OOC. BUT, when you're raid buffed, and has a lot of haste buffs OOC tends to proc a lot during Heroism/Bloodlust. So yeah, using Berserk during Heroism/Bloodlust is a waste.
So, it's better to use Berserk just after Heroism ends so you can keep up the DPS burst. If you have a Blood DK on raid, ask him/her to use Hysteria on you during Heroism. That will make your Heroism/Berserk phase overkill.
Meatwadz Jun 3rd 2010 11:14AM
I too can vouch for this.
And Hysteria was made for feral druids. Any blood DK that uses it on himself is selfishly gimping the raid.
bid Jun 6th 2010 11:20AM
Its a raid buff as a Blood Tank. If your Blood DPS you never share it, as its a integral part of your dps, and you'd be gimp with out it, ask any long time dk dps.
GerardthePriest Jun 3rd 2010 9:20AM
Maybe it's that my primary DPS experience is as a spec with few or no damage cooldowns (shadow priest), but I just macro my trinkets to a commonly used spell near the front of my rotation and then forget about them. To me, knowing that they're used every single time they're up without me having to think about it - and therefore definitely being used - is better than 'holding onto them' for the right moment and forgetting to use them, which I would, at least part of the time.
haloxinreverse Jun 3rd 2010 9:44AM
I do the exact same on my paladin. Wings aren't a part of this and its the only thing i'll pop during heroism. often i forget though. but at least my trinkets are popping every time they're ready. for boss fights they pop right at the beginning and by the time we get to burning they're usually ready again.
bazoo Jun 3rd 2010 12:55PM
Note that this is not a great idea for a paladin, and in fact for any class that has a long rampup time until max damage output. On my pally, for example, it takes over 10 seconds just to build a full stack of vengeance on the target which severely gimps damage until it is reached. Plus, with possibly the libram and one other trinket building stacks as well you're doing sub-par dps during more than half of your first trinket pop.
pancakes Jun 3rd 2010 9:24AM
I'm terrible at rembering cooldowns and so I always pretend the bloodlust sound is the raid leader getting angry at me for not using my cooldowns. It works wonders.
DeathPaladin Jun 3rd 2010 11:00AM
On the other side, Heroism's sound is more "And the crowd goes wild!"
Which means I better start blowing all my DPS cooldowns in order to further impress the audience.
Zuckerdachs Jun 3rd 2010 9:36AM
Thanks for this. I've been raiding for two years now and I am *still* trying to break myself of the "save this just in case" mentality.
Delerius Jun 3rd 2010 9:45AM
I'm another one of the "save it for when I need it and end up not using it" crowd, generally speaking. One thing I've noticed you have to watch out for is the haste cap. If your burst cooldowns are haste-related, as a caster you run the risk of overcapping and wasting much of the effect.
As an arcane mage it was *easy* to overcap during Bloodlust if I popped Icy Veins, Potion of Speed, and a haste trinket at the same time. For those it is better to use them one at a time over the course of the fight rather than all at once and waste much of the effect. Keep this in mind if you are a caster getting close to the haste cap.
Sciarc Jun 3rd 2010 11:40AM
I'm one of those people too, and I've come to hate cooldowns. And on-use trinkets. Maybe I'm just lazy, but I'd rather not have to think about that stuff. I macro them all into other abilities and never bother to time them or stack them with heroism.
icepyro Jun 3rd 2010 2:06PM
@Delerius:
This.
My shaman's 2sec LB is down to 1.3sec with BL and totems and other buffs but without Potion of Speed. I have been experimenting with when to use elemental mastery and my haste trinket and pots. It's actually a raid dps increase to switch to windfury totem during BL so that i don't overhaste the raid (which all the casters are haste loving fools) and especially myself with my other cooldowns and trinkets. Seriously, if I pop everything during BL including a speed potion, I could cast a chain heal (2.5 sec cast) in 1.04 secs. Needless to say, as elemental, any spell I'd actually use (which all have shorter cast times) is then below GCD.
Turtlehead Jun 4th 2010 12:56PM
Don't forget to use the last tick of a 'lust or icy to start a hasted evocate.
B Jun 3rd 2010 9:46AM
I play a hunter, and we're capped at 1.5 sec gcd. If your class is same then popping your haste cooldowns (Rapid Fire, Engineer gloves, speed potions) with Herolust, you can get casts that take ridiculously less time to complete than your global cooldown (0.7 sec casts etc). So in SOME cases, it's best to save haste cooldowns for after herolust. However it's always a good idea to use SP/Crit/AP/DMG cooldowns with herolust.
These days, most dps trinkets in ICC are proc based with internal cooldowns, I like to save my speed pots & rapid fires & engineering gloves for those procs, when no other haste buff is available. but that's just me
Nighthavk Jun 3rd 2010 9:49AM
For the most part, RL should call for Bloodlust ~2-3 seconds into a fight.
See it like this: While Tank+Healer backbone builds a solid foundation for DPSers to hack and slash as they like, Moar DPS also results in less of a time that Healers should be keeping tanks up and rotating cooldowns on the tank. Hell, we used to even pop BL on Anub first ever phase, hardmode.
It will always be a DPS increase to blow all CDs and Bloodlust first few seconds into a fight, unless you have a REALLY good reason to wait on the DPS and need the burst somewhere else (XT comes to mind as does Yogg-Saron).
And for progress nights, like say learning LK, waiting to pop Bloodlust for 'harder' phases when you're even struggling with Horrors is kind-of counter intuitive.
So, talk to your raid leaders, and they should coordinate the bloodlust usage for the beginning of the fight (for the most part).
jrizutko Jun 3rd 2010 1:29PM
Every fight is different.
In ICC alone:
Deathwhisper
Putricide
Blood Princes
BQL
Valithria
Sindragosa
Lich King
All benefit from timing herolust with a specific portion of the fight that is not 2-3 seconds in.
of the other four (not counting gunship because heroism is next to meaningless), only Rotface seems to benefit significantly from an early heroism. Saurfang, Festergut and Marrowgar could go either way (right at the start or save for a specific moment.) without a major sacrficie.
Magus Jun 4th 2010 12:00AM
Another advantage to popping early is that (hopefully) everyone is still alive.
Redielin Jun 3rd 2010 9:51AM
As a Shadow Priest, I agree with Foc. You have to be careful that your haste doesn't become "soft capped" during Herolust - if you, say, pop a haste pot during Herolust, will that put you past the 1.0 Sec GCD? Then you're wasting haste, at least for instants and 1.5 sec casts. Also, unless you're really comfortable with your latency, you might lose some efficiency and potentially clip DOTs and channeled spells.
However, I also agree with Rossi. Plan out your cooldown use for maximum uptime. This often means using them at the very beginning of the fight to maximize uptime. However, if you happen to be a class that benefits greatly from Herolust, and you know when Herolust is going to be popped (Arcane Mage might be a good example) then you might skip hitting that cooldown on cooldown to line it up with Herolust.
The difference between a good DPS and an Amazing, Must be Hacking DPS, is planning out the fight. Is this fight one that has lots of pauses where you'll have to ramp up again (putricide)? Then perhaps it would be better to use a straight spellpower/haste trinket or a clickable trinket - say Phylactery of the Nameless Lich, rather than a stacking spellpower trinket like Muradin's. You can also plan out other gear sets that way. Remember, you can switch weapons in combat as well - will this net you more of a certain stat when you need it? Holy Priests used to keep Spirit weapons around so that they could put them on during their spirit regen naps. (not that they were DPSing but it gives you an idea of how that could work). Are there talents, rarely used abilities, or things you haven't thought of that could give you the extra edge? Dispersion on Sindragosa allows you to mostly ignore unchained magic, for instance. I've been playing around with the nerfed Incanters Absorption on my Mage ( I don't think its worth the mana you lose from Mana Shield, but the FIre and Frost Ward part is okay). Our Boomkin informed me yesterday that he recasts his Raid buff to proc his Omen of Clarity. Research and expirement to find little things like this.