Drama Mamas: The curious case of That Guy vs. the Spineless Jellyfish GM
Drama Mamas Lisa Poisso and Robin Torres are experienced gamers and real-life mamas -- and just as we don't want our precious babies to be the ones kicking and wailing on the floor of checkout lane next to the candy, neither do we want you to become known as That Guy on your server.
Once upon a time, there was a guild member called That Guy. That Guy was typical of his kind -- abrasive in guild chat, incompetent in raids, seemingly without redeeming value ... Except that the guild always seemed to need him in order to scrape together a full raid group. His GM, the usual enemy of all That Guys in their natural habitat, turned out to be a subspecies that posed no threat to That Guy at all: the Spineless Jellyfish GM. To the horror of guild members, not only did Jelly-Belly do nothing to solve the chaos created by That Guy, but he actually wrapped his tentacles around That Guy and laughed in glee as the guild spun more and more rapidly into a vortex that threatened to suck them all into the briny depths ...
Drama Mama Lisa: Oh, boy. RAWR, you're not going to like hearing this at all, but the person who's causing all the trouble isn't Mr. Green -- it's your jellyfish of a guild leader. Ignoring problems in hopes they'll go away? Encouraging a poisonous atmosphere where members go off on one another and cause drama? What a toxic, spineless dolt!
Let's play this one by the numbers:
Unfortunately, any lasting solution is most likely going to come down to your incompetent GM and officers. Your guild is likely to continue to weather problems of all sorts until you can find leaders who are both willing and capable of actually leading this group. Good luck.
Drama Mama Robin: RAWR, I completely agree with Lisa on this. It's not Mr. Green, it's whoever is putting him in raids over competent people as well as your drama-mongering GM. He should have been kicked from the raid team ages ago. But since it's the GM and raid leader who are the ones causing the problem, I don't think bringing others in to suffer along with you is a good solution.
I think you should go with number 2 ... maybe ... if you really want to stay and put up with a future Ms. Chartreuse or Mr. Puce, that is. Otherwise, you and the people who are also fed up should find another home. There are so many guilds out there who are having trouble putting together full raids due to pre-expansion apathy. I bet you could find a decent fit with a guild on your own server.
Just make sure you don't burn any bridges. There are bound to be people you want to hang out with who don't want to leave. And the guild may get a new GM or be reformed into something better for Cataclysm. Who knows?
Our leisure time is too short to put up with funsuckers and their enablers. Good luck and let us know what happens, please!
Drama buster of the week
Eyeing the possibility of joining up with a fast-paced guild that's biting into hard modes, instead of your well-meaning but straggling guild of friends?
Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at DramaMamas (at) WoW (dot) com.
Once upon a time, there was a guild member called That Guy. That Guy was typical of his kind -- abrasive in guild chat, incompetent in raids, seemingly without redeeming value ... Except that the guild always seemed to need him in order to scrape together a full raid group. His GM, the usual enemy of all That Guys in their natural habitat, turned out to be a subspecies that posed no threat to That Guy at all: the Spineless Jellyfish GM. To the horror of guild members, not only did Jelly-Belly do nothing to solve the chaos created by That Guy, but he actually wrapped his tentacles around That Guy and laughed in glee as the guild spun more and more rapidly into a vortex that threatened to suck them all into the briny depths ...
Dear Drama Mamas,
I am in a 25-man raiding guild on a server. We are a decent group of raiders. We have every raiding stereotype you can imagine: the yelling raid leader, the cool-as-a-cucumber DPS, and the always-has-a-strat guy, just to name a few. So as you can see, we are a typical group trying to climb to the top of the server ranking. I have been in this guild since a month after Ulduar released and I have gotten into the flow of people leaving, joining and quitting the game. It felt homey until 5 months ago, when problems started to arise. I have been having drama with one person -- not run-of-the-mill drama, either. Recurring drama.
We will call him Mr. Green.
Mr. Green has been in the guild for a while. He joined when ToC was new. His raiding status has been off and on since then, depending on how many raiders we have. This is mainly due to the fact he is what experts call an "idiot." His raid awareness is that of a sloth and he never comes prepared, may that be with raid goods or knowledge about the encounter. For a while, he seemed to be filler for our raids when we are short-handed, but now I notice he is getting in raids over competent people. To illustrate how idiotic he can be, here is a fun example:
Mr. Green was in with us on a Putricide attempt. We had gotten down the green ooze (which he did not bother to attack) and were on the other side waiting for the orange to come down. Lo and behold, Mr. Green is on the wrong side. The raid leader gently told him to move, but when no response was received, raid leader began to channel his mean side. Alas, it was too late, and Mr. Green wiped the raid when the ooze targeted him and blew up. Everyone makes mistakes, I know this -- but Mr. Green decided to say he didn't see it or any warning, despite having DBM and all our raid leaders having DBM on announce.
Wiping due to trivial things is a usual scene in our raids with Mr. Green, and one day it became too much for me and I lost my cool. I have become famous for losing my cool on Mr. Green, and people treat it as a game. Since then, our healer channel has become a place to bash him -- and from what I have heard, there are other class channels that have turned into the same thing.
I have tried talking to my GM about Mr. Green, but since my GM is very passive-aggressive, he told me that he enjoyed when I exploded on Mr. Green and he would rather have me cut him down until he leaves, rather than kick him. This puts me in an odd position. I don't like cutting down people, but it seems everything he does rubs me the wrong way. Whether it's calling me male on every occorrence (I talk regularly in Vent and am very much female), biting me instead of a DPS on BQL, Ice Blocking me because he was in the wrong place during Sindragosa, or just being moronic in guild chat. I have become a gigantic rage monster and whenever I have a "rage moment," my friend spams /yell with RAWR.
I don't know what to do about Mr. Green. I have him muted in Vent, but that doesn't make him invisible. I am a core healer so I can't even skip out on raiding when he is in the raid. We are short-handed, so not having him in the raid would have us under-manned for our 25-mans. I have stated to officers that we would almost be better off without him. Oh, it might be noteworthy to add I am not the only person to have a seething dislike for Mr. Green. Please, please help me!
Sincerely,
RAWR <3
Let's play this one by the numbers:
- There's a better way to react than blowing your stack at Mr. Green -- so don't. Everything about your letter tells me you already know this, too. Don't let an immature GM and guild officers egg you into behavior you clearly feel bad about afterwards. This is your "fun" time, RAWR; don't pee in your own nest.
- Give your guild leadership a wakeup call. Tell your GM in no uncertain terms that you and other members are fed up with their lack of action. Either they need to handle this situation, or you and the other members who feel the same way will be forced to consider moving on to another guild.
- In the meantime, cushion yourself from interacting with Mr. Green. It's possible to be firm yet polite with someone who needs to tune up his game and social skills.
- Try helping the poor guy out. We've talked before about ways to help problem players improve their game. If you think you have the patience for it, continue to implement the cushioning maneuvers during raids and then try some of our suggestions when the pressure's off.
- Help recruit more guild members. If your guild weren't stretched so thin, there'd be more flexibility for working around low-performance members like Mr. Green. Do some pugging and find some new blood.
Unfortunately, any lasting solution is most likely going to come down to your incompetent GM and officers. Your guild is likely to continue to weather problems of all sorts until you can find leaders who are both willing and capable of actually leading this group. Good luck.
I think you should go with number 2 ... maybe ... if you really want to stay and put up with a future Ms. Chartreuse or Mr. Puce, that is. Otherwise, you and the people who are also fed up should find another home. There are so many guilds out there who are having trouble putting together full raids due to pre-expansion apathy. I bet you could find a decent fit with a guild on your own server.
Just make sure you don't burn any bridges. There are bound to be people you want to hang out with who don't want to leave. And the guild may get a new GM or be reformed into something better for Cataclysm. Who knows?
Our leisure time is too short to put up with funsuckers and their enablers. Good luck and let us know what happens, please!
Drama buster of the week
Eyeing the possibility of joining up with a fast-paced guild that's biting into hard modes, instead of your well-meaning but straggling guild of friends?
- Make the leap. Join up. See how you like a more focused pace. You may love it ... You may lose interest after the initial adrenaline rush ... Or you may not find the schedule or the guild such a good fit after all. You'll never know unless you try.
- Don't burn any bridges with your casual friends. "I'd like to try more raiding, and I've got this window to try things out before I get back into school" is different than "You all suck Cracked Eggs and I never want to hear from you again."
Filed under: Drama Mamas







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
phorns Jun 4th 2010 1:17PM
I'm guessing Mr. Green is a death knight. But yeah, I agree number two is the correct option.
(cutaia) Jun 4th 2010 1:21PM
What rampant classism. Can't we all just get along? RAWR.
Aaron Jun 4th 2010 1:41PM
Part of me doesn't want to know what class he plays since green is associated with hunters. We get enough bad press as it is. lol
clundgren Jun 4th 2010 1:49PM
To the contrary, I find that most of the "flavour of the month" DKs are long gone, now that the class has been nerfed back to average levels, and the ones that remain really enjoy and know their class. The "flavour of the monthers" are currently giving rogues a bad name.
KPB Jun 4th 2010 1:49PM
I highly doubt they are a dk. Given the description of how Mr green wiped the raid on PP they'd pretty much have to be a ranged class or they would have been following PP to the other side of the room to keep meleeing him.
Going with Aaron's comment I will assume he's a HUNTARD in every definition of the term and probably Beast speced too.
Kemikalkadet Jun 4th 2010 2:02PM
I assumed Hunter before i read the full letter. Not due to any class prejudice, but green=hunter class colour.
Kal Jun 9th 2010 10:48AM
I was just about to jump in here all psycho to defend my class and how rude it is that people still assume DKs are all fail players, then I remember the Death Knight tank I got a few weeks ago that tried to tank a heroic dungeon with rez sickness and no tank gear.
So, yeah, Death Knights don't have near the amount of idiots we once did, but we still have some winners.
blizzardsprules Jun 4th 2010 4:56PM
If Mr.green is really that incompetant, the raid leader prefers you to bash him instead of kicking and you're the core healer, there's a simple solution: Tell your raid leader you will not join a raid if Mr.green is in the raid, simple as, Healer>Dps, and from the sounds of it, you'd benefit more from a pugger than him.
Jorges Jun 4th 2010 4:58PM
We have a Mr. Green in our guild too, and yes, he's a hunter. Not exactly like this Mr. Green, since ours actually do a pretty good job as a hunter. But all that gets obscured by his behaviour. I think we tolerate him just because he's a good hunter. But everyone has their limits...
spud Jun 4th 2010 6:26PM
Unfortunately I believe he is a hunter. While hunters have gotten better since vanilla they are still one of the easiest classes to play and level. Although please do not get me wrong, I am a hunter true to my heart, and they are one of the harder classes to master which is why we see so many incompetent ones in high levels who think that they are so awesome to realize that raiding is sometimes a bit harder than afk-autoshot.
SR Jun 4th 2010 7:05PM
Jorges sounds like my guildie o_O
I used to hate Death Knights because of their awesomeness at early-Wrath; I started liking them after I discovered tanking, and made my Knight into a Blood Knight; I started loathing them once Dungeon Finder hit. It's bad enough that I run into players that refuses to listen to anybody in the group; I don't want a Death Knight Death Gripping every pull, or taunting a new pack for some unknown reason, or still thinks that Frost is the only tank tree, or....
Yeah. As a pretty old Death Knight player, the general badness of bad players rolling them because they still think it's an OP class is... saddening, really. Ever seen a DPS DK decked out in outland greens with intellect and defense?
As for the issue, I do agree with the method of "If he's here, I ain't healing." It's a bit of a... douchey move, but a renowned moron vs. core healer is going to be a short decision. And honestly.... if they took more than a minute to kick him out of the raid (if not the guild), I think it's time to /gquit.
Harsh? Maybe. But the kinder you are to morons, the stronger they get.
Baba Jun 4th 2010 1:18PM
Most in favour of suggestions 3 & 4 here;
If you're the person advocating the GM taking some firm action, perhaps get Mr. Green, your GM and yourself onto a vent channel and talking about how the guy is gonna have to improve in order to keep in the guild. Ask him what he does to prep. before a raid, it may well be that he doesn't watch any tactics from youtube, and doesn't neccesarily know that they exist.
Also, how old is he? Imo if he's under 16/17 then you should make the effort to improve his game, since chances are that once he gets tutored he'll be a skilled performer. Chances are there is room for improvement.
However if he's mid-20's or older then it may be that he just doesn't care or is, as you said, stupid :P
Either way you lose nothing by laying down the requirements in order to maintain a raiding spot.
Dan828 Jun 4th 2010 5:37PM
We had a jackass DPS on our guild back during BC raiding. Now, this is back in a time when you actually had to watch threat as DPS, and we had this warlock that simply refused to do so. He'd unload on every single mob and brag about how high his dps was. He was constantly pulling off the tank, and would rag on the healers for being bad and unable to keep him up.
Ultimately, he pissed the healers off so much we just decided to stop healing him at all, so when he pulled off the tank, he died. Simple as that. Now, we were mostly trying to get him to watch his threat, but in less than a week he rage quit the guild after badmouthing all the healers. We were much better off without him.
Danterius Jun 4th 2010 1:20PM
I have never been a GM nor even an officer, so I wouldn't know how hard it is to kick individuals such as Mr. Green, but apparently it's quite hard. More than once I've seen such individuals stick around in a guild simply because either A.) No leaders care. or B.) They feel sorry for the guy.
These individuals are more often than not DPS who 1. fail to follow directions, 2. DPS well below their Gearscores, 3. and are generally unprepared and lackadaisical. Just yesterday I was puggin ICC25 with another guild and they had a "Mr. Green". I watched as this individual broke all the raiding rules in a span of two hours, yet was tolerated. It wasn't until he told his GM to "f*** off" that he was finally raid/guild kicked.
(cutaia) Jun 4th 2010 1:23PM
My guildies are constantly telling me to **** off. :(
SR Jun 4th 2010 7:09PM
Our guild has a very similar situation with this article; let's call him Mr. Blue. He did the same thing on Putricide, except that... well, he ran INTO the orange blob when he was targeted. That's just one of the "Omg, did he just..." moments.
The only reason he's not kicked out yet is because.... well, either he's a family member of one of the leaders, or we're THAT short on people.
WTB free Alliance-only server transfer to Detheroc....
Grovinofdarkhour Jun 4th 2010 1:26PM
As a recently-promoted-to-GM GM of a casual-raiding guild that over the last 2 years has become a pretty tight-knit group of friends (but has seen way more than our share of came-and-wents), I can say unequivocally, Mr. Green could have fallen bass-ackwards into full 264s and he still wouldn't get a /ginvite from us for all the tea in China.
jimbob Jun 4th 2010 1:53PM
Couldn't agree more! We are a VERY casual guild, 5-mans, the odd pug 10-man, nothing more serious, this guy wouldn't last 5 minutes in our guild!
My GL kicked a very VERY good tank (which we are seriously lacking) because he was a douche.
And this is in a casual guild, i guess casual guilds focus more on the social aspects of the game rather than the raiding, so douchebaggery is less tolerated than being a decent human being > GS ^^
Grovinofdarkhour Jun 4th 2010 2:37PM
And I probably couldn't have said the same thing last year, when we were trying to recruit more aggressively, but we've learned an awful lot in the last year. We've had our That Guy types, whose tenures in our guild were mostly measured not in months or weeks, but days (in some cases, hours). We had some good folks who were well on their way to becoming officers, but got purple fever, thought the grass might be greener, and ended up sitting on some uberguild's bench. We've had a couple of people with "hardcore personalities" IRL start playing for the first time, learn the game, level up, join our guild as new 80s, gear up real fast, play us for a couple of months, and decide to start a more hardcore guild from scratch, in some cases convincing good raiders of ours to go with them - all since Wrath was released. We even have a couple members that I know are just alts, and their mains are in more hardcore guilds - whether they're "spying" or sincerely testing the waters for a potential move, it's OK by us as long as they're good folk, know their classes/jobs, and prepare like they care.
Point is, the That Guys have come and gone quickly, while the people who have become real friends are still around, and there have been all shades in between, but there hasn't been a single loss that we're still hurt about. And the real benefit is, we've become a lot more selective in our recruiting. We've geared up enough people only to watch them leave that we're just not interested in doing that any more, and we don't want to grow comfortable depending on someone in a raid spot who might not be there tomorrow. Right now there are really three types we might throw a /ginvite to:
1. past members returning (who left on good terms);
2. non-guild friends we have raided with for a long time, of which there are many;
3. proven raiders with good reputations on the server.
In all three cases, we already know you, or we know of you, so it's an easy decision.
jimbob Jun 4th 2010 4:50PM
Sounds like you have done a very good job! Gz on that! I'm guessing you're on a US server?