Patch 5.3 interview with Ghostcrawler
Mystery of the Unborn Val'kyr
The latest patch 5.3 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsDrama Mamas: The curious case of That Guy vs. the Spineless Jellyfish GM
by Lisa Poisso 
Jun 4th 2010 at 1:00PM
Once upon a time, there was a guild member called That Guy. That Guy was typical of his kind -- abrasive in guild chat, incompetent in raids, seemingly without redeeming value ... Except that the guild always seemed to need him in order to scrape together a full raid group. His GM, the usual enemy of all That Guys in their natural habitat, turned out to be a subspecies that posed no threat to That Guy at all: the Spineless Jellyfish GM. To the horror of guild members, not only did Jelly-Belly do nothing to solve the chaos created by That Guy, but he actually wrapped his tentacles around That Guy and laughed in glee as the guild spun more and more rapidly into a vortex that threatened to suck them all into the briny depths ...
Dear Drama Mamas,
I am in a 25-man raiding guild on a server. We are a decent group of raiders. We have every raiding stereotype you can imagine: the yelling raid leader, the cool-as-a-cucumber DPS, and the always-has-a-strat guy, just to name a few. So as you can see, we are a typical group trying to climb to the top of the server ranking. I have been in this guild since a month after Ulduar released and I have gotten into the flow of people leaving, joining and quitting the game. It felt homey until 5 months ago, when problems started to arise. I have been having drama with one person -- not run-of-the-mill drama, either. Recurring drama.
We will call him Mr. Green.
Mr. Green has been in the guild for a while. He joined when ToC was new. His raiding status has been off and on since then, depending on how many raiders we have. This is mainly due to the fact he is what experts call an "idiot." His raid awareness is that of a sloth and he never comes prepared, may that be with raid goods or knowledge about the encounter. For a while, he seemed to be filler for our raids when we are short-handed, but now I notice he is getting in raids over competent people. To illustrate how idiotic he can be, here is a fun example:
Mr. Green was in with us on a Putricide attempt. We had gotten down the green ooze (which he did not bother to attack) and were on the other side waiting for the orange to come down. Lo and behold, Mr. Green is on the wrong side. The raid leader gently told him to move, but when no response was received, raid leader began to channel his mean side. Alas, it was too late, and Mr. Green wiped the raid when the ooze targeted him and blew up. Everyone makes mistakes, I know this -- but Mr. Green decided to say he didn't see it or any warning, despite having DBM and all our raid leaders having DBM on announce.
Wiping due to trivial things is a usual scene in our raids with Mr. Green, and one day it became too much for me and I lost my cool. I have become famous for losing my cool on Mr. Green, and people treat it as a game. Since then, our healer channel has become a place to bash him -- and from what I have heard, there are other class channels that have turned into the same thing.
I have tried talking to my GM about Mr. Green, but since my GM is very passive-aggressive, he told me that he enjoyed when I exploded on Mr. Green and he would rather have me cut him down until he leaves, rather than kick him. This puts me in an odd position. I don't like cutting down people, but it seems everything he does rubs me the wrong way. Whether it's calling me male on every occorrence (I talk regularly in Vent and am very much female), biting me instead of a DPS on BQL, Ice Blocking me because he was in the wrong place during Sindragosa, or just being moronic in guild chat. I have become a gigantic rage monster and whenever I have a "rage moment," my friend spams /yell with RAWR.
I don't know what to do about Mr. Green. I have him muted in Vent, but that doesn't make him invisible. I am a core healer so I can't even skip out on raiding when he is in the raid. We are short-handed, so not having him in the raid would have us under-manned for our 25-mans. I have stated to officers that we would almost be better off without him. Oh, it might be noteworthy to add I am not the only person to have a seething dislike for Mr. Green. Please, please help me!
Sincerely,
RAWR <3
Drama Mama Lisa: Oh, boy. RAWR, you're not going to like hearing this at all, but the person who's causing all the trouble isn't Mr. Green -- it's your jellyfish of a guild leader. Ignoring problems in hopes they'll go away? Encouraging a poisonous atmosphere where members go off on one another and cause drama? What a toxic, spineless dolt!Let's play this one by the numbers:
- There's a better way to react than blowing your stack at Mr. Green -- so don't. Everything about your letter tells me you already know this, too. Don't let an immature GM and guild officers egg you into behavior you clearly feel bad about afterwards. This is your "fun" time, RAWR; don't pee in your own nest.
- Give your guild leadership a wakeup call. Tell your GM in no uncertain terms that you and other members are fed up with their lack of action. Either they need to handle this situation, or you and the other members who feel the same way will be forced to consider moving on to another guild.
- In the meantime, cushion yourself from interacting with Mr. Green. It's possible to be firm yet polite with someone who needs to tune up his game and social skills.
- Try helping the poor guy out. We've talked before about ways to help problem players improve their game. If you think you have the patience for it, continue to implement the cushioning maneuvers during raids and then try some of our suggestions when the pressure's off.
- Help recruit more guild members. If your guild weren't stretched so thin, there'd be more flexibility for working around low-performance members like Mr. Green. Do some pugging and find some new blood.
Unfortunately, any lasting solution is most likely going to come down to your incompetent GM and officers. Your guild is likely to continue to weather problems of all sorts until you can find leaders who are both willing and capable of actually leading this group. Good luck.
Drama Mama Robin: RAWR, I completely agree with Lisa on this. It's not Mr. Green, it's whoever is putting him in raids over competent people as well as your drama-mongering GM. He should have been kicked from the raid team ages ago. But since it's the GM and raid leader who are the ones causing the problem, I don't think bringing others in to suffer along with you is a good solution. I think you should go with number 2 ... maybe ... if you really want to stay and put up with a future Ms. Chartreuse or Mr. Puce, that is. Otherwise, you and the people who are also fed up should find another home. There are so many guilds out there who are having trouble putting together full raids due to pre-expansion apathy. I bet you could find a decent fit with a guild on your own server.
Just make sure you don't burn any bridges. There are bound to be people you want to hang out with who don't want to leave. And the guild may get a new GM or be reformed into something better for Cataclysm. Who knows?
Our leisure time is too short to put up with funsuckers and their enablers. Good luck and let us know what happens, please!
Drama buster of the week
Eyeing the possibility of joining up with a fast-paced guild that's biting into hard modes, instead of your well-meaning but straggling guild of friends?
- Make the leap. Join up. See how you like a more focused pace. You may love it ... You may lose interest after the initial adrenaline rush ... Or you may not find the schedule or the guild such a good fit after all. You'll never know unless you try.
- Don't burn any bridges with your casual friends. "I'd like to try more raiding, and I've got this window to try things out before I get back into school" is different than "You all suck Cracked Eggs and I never want to hear from you again."
Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at DramaMamas (at) WoW (dot) com.Filed under: Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 3)
Russ Jun 4th 2010 3:35PM
You could always lure Mr. Green into the Billiards room, hand him a candlestick, and drag Mr. Body into the room and accuse him of murder!
seamus Jun 4th 2010 3:57PM
ROFL. That is pure win. We've got our solution right there. :-)
Grovinofdarkhour Jun 4th 2010 5:42PM
But everybody knows, it was Professor Plum, in the Study, with the Revolver. So that would never work.
BoomingEchoes Jun 4th 2010 4:34PM
Sometimes you have to call a turd a turd, and this guy seems to be as big of a problem along with the guild leaders inability to deal with the situation his/her self. Green sounds like a terrible player and frankly doesn't really want to try, he should be removed from the guild or just not invited to raid any more. It makes me wonder why he was invited at all, and what type of application process Rawr's guild has.
But while it should be the GL's final decision to boot Green, it falls on the others to bring it to his attention that it needs to happen, not just Rawer. How else does know that Rawrs not just overreacting and the others having a good time with at Rawrs expense? Frankly the GL seems clueless, thinking it's a joke, and honestly it seems like Rawr is taking the weight of the guilds frustration on her (she said she was a she) shoulders and venting it back at everyone. No one has to do any thing as long as Rawr is there to vent for them, so their job is easy. If Rawr really wants to do something she needs to rally the rest who feel the same and talk to the GL TOGETHER, not demand like the advice #2 implies, but have a heart to heart about this guy.
Demands, even to a passive person like the GL seems to be, will only be met with the same snarky comments Rawr was met with when she talked with the GL personally, and will lead to more then one upset person or ultimately a lot of /gquits. If they make it clear to the GL that Green's a problem, he really hasn't been there THAT long (Hate to tell you Rawr, but it really hasn't been a great deal of time since ToC came out unless you have a really short attention span), he can be replaced easily, and that THEY will find the person to replace him, then I don't see why the GL shouldn't go along with it; it doesn't seem like they want to do a lot of the leg work any way, all he needs to do is the kicking (or an officer can, where are all the officers in this?). It also shouldn't be all on Rawr if the sentiment is shared by many. Everyone needs to step up, just because your not grouped in a raid doesn't mean you aren't a team.
That leads me to another thing, Rawr also seems to have a problem of her own that I see in a fine glimmer of a thread through her story. She says shes a Core healer, and takes as many chances as possible to say how they can't spare the people, as if she isn't replaceable herself. This mentality can get ugly quick and can lead to something I'm worried about: Not only will she stress out about being always needed, but will also thinking that since shes "Core" that shes automatically better then Green (or any one else). It's boarder line elitism and it will start to sound like just because SHE doesn't like Green, that Green should be gone. In that case it becomes her sole problem and not really the guilds (notice how she needs to sneak in that shes not the only one with the "seething dislike" at the end, after telling us this before? Signs of a person trying to cover their hide)
Sure, we all know healers aren't growing on trees but theres a hint of ego behind her words and she might need to get off that horse in order to see where this person is coming from. ANY ONE can be replaced in a guild, EVERYONE is expendable in a game, you just have to have leaders with the mentality to follow through with it. The way it sounds from Rawr's outbursts she should be thanking her lucky stars she doesn't have leaders like that, or she'd be the out by now.
Usually the phrase goes "The squeaky wheel gets the grease" meaning the one who has the problem and brings it up publicly, usually to excess, will get their problem solved. But in my WoW experience I've found the opposite, "The Squeaky wheel wrecks the car", meaning usually the one who's complaining most is the one who rips the whole guild apart, which leads to that person being kicked before it happens..
That leads me to say I don't like the advice being driven home by Momma Robin through Momma Lisa's advice #2. It sounds like -and I might be taking it wrong- that Momma Robin is saying to Rawr and the rest that they should really just skip trying to work it out and just find a new guild but that seems to hasty, specially if they've invested a lot of time into the guild. If the problem cropped up JUST because of Green then why throw it all away? Honestly, its hard not to burn bridges when conclusions like that are jumped too, someone always ends up charred and wet.
Bluwatr Jun 4th 2010 5:43PM
uhmmm. Even the Devil can make it sound like he is on the right side. Maybe a better way to say this, "There are two sides to every story." You may call the guild leader a jelly fish, which might be the case, but without hearing his or her side of the "story" you don't really know. I have seen exactly what you are talking about and often times it is a personality conflict where one person singles out an individuals actions when often the blame could be shared across the board. The other side of this could be, the guild being short handed does not want to lose one of thier healers and tolerates her abusive unforgiving behaviour and everyone makes jokes about it to defuse the situation. Unless of course, everyone else in the guild is perfect and does not make any mistakes. I think we know this is not true.
Kaz Jun 4th 2010 5:28PM
Good news for you RWAR, you're a core healer in a short handed guild. This means you have what is known as "leverage." Start shopping around for good guilds that could use an extra healer, and when you find one let your GM know in a whisper or in game mail, that its either "Mr. Green" or you. Incompetent Liability or Wonderful Healer.
For bonus points get a few of your like minded guildies to whisper or mail him independently with the same ultimatum. If he's faced with keeping one jackass or a good healer/most-of-the-guild I think he's going to be prone to swiftly gkicking "Mr. Green."
Oh, and remember to follow though or its going to get even worse for you if you chicken out at the end.
Grovinofdarkhour Jun 4th 2010 5:50PM
The problem there is if the GM is Captain Principles, who by default will nearly always take offense and side against whoever gives him an ultimatum. I admit I can get that way, I HATE ultimatums and lose respect for people who throw them around carelessly.
The real key is to have good enough and open enough communication among your core people that problems like this have been resolved LONG before they get anywhere near "ultimatum territory" in the first place.
Kaz Jun 4th 2010 6:09PM
Grovinofdarkhour, I don't think that the GM is the "Captain Principles" type. If he were then "Mr. Green" would have been THOROUGHLY disciplined by now or /gkicked. I'll admit I'm like that too if someone whines to me and then gives me an ultimatum I'll just decide to cut them loose. Its also good for a tie breaker when someone tries to make me make an uncomfortable decision between two people. The one that put me in that position loses.
The big problem here is that guild leadership is doing nothing about this guy and its causing morale to fall across the guild. Guild members are clearly starting to splinter into sub-factions, and confidence in the leadership is on the decline. Its not that the GM doesn't know what is going on, or is just deaf to the members, its that he's actively chosen not to do anything to properly address the situation.
Besides even if he defies the ultimatum then he's just robed the guild of a good healer. If others do the same thing and leave because of it then he's just lost a good portion of his guild. Then comes the decline of the guild as a whole, because without enough people to raid then raids will get canceled, and after enough cancellations, more and more people will quit and exacerbate the decline. Eventually the guild will only consist of the incompetent GM and "Mr. Green."
Grovinofdarkhour Jun 4th 2010 7:54PM
Yep, I was reading your post more in a "if this is general advice to the masses" kind of way, as opposed to "specific advice for RWAR" kind of way, even though in hindsight, it was clearly the latter, so, my bad.
uncaringbear Jun 4th 2010 8:24PM
More likely he's just a douche bag.
Broncboz Jun 4th 2010 11:46PM
The Drama Buster of the week couldn't be truer!
When I started playing WoW a RL friend got me in a very casual guild that was great for leveling and general play but we rarely raided, heck we only did Kara once before wrath came out.
Feeling like I was missing out on a part of the game that I really wanted to play I decided to join some work friends on a different server that were in a hard core raiding guild. Before I started spending most of my time on another server I let my casual guildies know what was going on and why, all of them were very understanding and supportive and made it very clear that I would be welcome back at any time.
Not long after I got my first toon to 80 on the new server I found that I didn't want to invest the time just for the raids, let alone gearing up, gathering mats for consumables, running dailies ect. all the things that were expected of the regular raiders.
I decided to return to my former guild and was welcome back like I had never left. We are now raiding causually and make nice progress in ICC, mostly thanks so to the changes Blizz has made to raiding.
Also when I left my work friends guild, I again let them now the situation, and guess what No hard feelings from them.
Phoenix Psaltery Jun 6th 2010 2:26AM
You can't fix stupid.
My guild had a warrior who was forever aggroing multiple mobs and dying before the healers even had time to react.
Fortunately, we didn't have to kick him. Blizzard discovered he was using a power leveling service and banned his sorry butt.
Gormaggus Jun 7th 2010 1:50AM
For some reason as soon as I saw the alias of "Mr. Green" all I could think of was Reservoir Dogs :P
Acadien Jun 9th 2010 1:56PM
I had a similar situation with a great guild that I had to leave. Before I joined them I had grouped with them for years, knew the guild leaders, and they were a good lot. Once on the inside I found the guild cooperated well and for the most part was what I expected. The core group ran dungeons, BGs, Heroics, and gear flowed in. Life was great.
Soon enough, however, it became clear that "old school" members had blank checks to be funsuckers. Ex-officers, now in other raiding guilds, would pop in on alts or as "guest raid leaders/members" and turn vent into an elitist jerkfest. Players of the other faction (it's a pvp server) had alts in the guild, occasionally turning guild chat into forum-cliche bingo. There was at least one "That Guy" who could always be found picking a fight in guild channel over whatever was being talked about.
Gah, enough already. Guild Leader was cool with that chaos, but it was too much for me.