Cataclysm Talent Preview: Rogue

Each of the three talent trees received some pretty significant changes, including a few potential rotation changers. Blizzard stated that their goal was to consolidate some of the mandatory DPS talents to allow for more flexibility and utility, and to reduce the number of simple damage increasing talents. In addition, each tree needed to be fleshed out a bit, to give us somewhere to sink the five additional points we'll receive at level 85. Finally, they also had to add in some flavor to each tree, making any given spec a bit more unique from the other two.
Assassination changes
I'll be starting from the top of the tree and covering the important changes -- at least, the ones that I think are important in the long run. What hits me right off the bat in the assassination tree is the change to Vile Poisons. If you remember when Ghostcrawler (lead systems designer) and company announced that Fan of Knives would now use our thrown weapon's poison instead of our melee weapons' poisons, I said that they were cutting the poison potency in half. With Vile Poisons allowing FoK to proc our melee poisons as well, that could potentially have us proccing three poisons at once, which would be pretty sweet. That would give mutilate rogues the edge they need to keep up in the AoE arms race against combat's very potent Blade Flurry and FoK combo. This talent may be too powerful, especially in PvP, so I expect the melee poison procs to replace the thrown weapon procs, so we'll only have two poisons proccing from FoK at once.
Next up are the significant changes to mutilate's cooldowns, specifically the buff to Cold Blood and the redesign of Hunger for Blood. Cold Blood now gives us the Thistle Tea / Renataki's effect, which have been abused by great rogues since Day One. Extra energy may not seem crucial in a long PvE battle, but the ability to add an extra attack into an Improved Kidney Shot can be significant. It gives mutilate rogues a bit of zing when they need it, instead of simply waiting for their energy to pool all the way back up to 60 before attacking again. A low-level rogue, say level 60, with a Renataki's, Thistle Tea and Cold Blood could become quite the swift assassin.
Vendetta is our HfB replacement, and it provides a bit of the same burst. Instead of 5% more damage over two minutes, we get 20% more damage for 30 seconds, every two minutes. While seemingly the same as HfB, it's actually significantly more valuable. The ability to choose when we deal extra damage allows us to synchronize it with trinkets, potions and other cooldowns like Bloodlust. It also lets us prioritize certain phases or adds in a fight, as there are many fights with situations where dealing extra damage is ideal, like XT-002's heart phase. And they even removed the bleed requirement and gave it some PvP utility for chasing down other rogues! I would say the new Vendetta is everything we could've wanted to see in an HfB replacement.
Lastly, there are a few game changers lower in the tree. Improved Expose Armor could be coupled with a Relentless Strikes build to let us keep up EA for the low cost of one GCD every 30 seconds. This is great news for any smaller raid without a warrior to keep up Sunder Armor. The deep talent Venomous Wounds looks like Blizzard wants mutilate rogues to start using Rupture, but I feel like this might end up becoming a flexible talent: two mutilate playstyles, one with Rupture and one without. Finally, I am really hoping that Murderous Intent has rogues working overtime. By reducing the energy cost of Backstab to just 30 energy, we could realistically be spamming Backstab, with a huge crit rate from Puncturing Wounds. As the boss drops below 35%, the fight accelerates, we're pushing tons of buttons, finishers more often by the virtue of more combo points, etc. I don't know about what you think, but that type of post-35% shuffle sounds incredibly fun to play.
My only gripe with the assassination changes is the significant bloat still found in the tree. To truly maximize your DPS, you'll need to drop most of your points into a cookie-cutter DPS build. The other trees don't share this same DPS talent bloat, as you'll see soon, and so I hope that Blizzard decides to loosen up the tree a bit. Seal Fate still costing five talent points is one possible area to improve, and I have heard many arguments against Turn the Tables being present at all.
Combat changes
The first change we see in the combat tree shouldn't come as a surprise, considering what we know about the Cataclysm mastery bonuses. Combat is destined to be the strong combo point generator tree, and so the 5% damage buff to Improved Sinister Strike is an expected change. Even though it's now a five-point talent, I think that the damage buff is worth the cost. There have been plenty of talent points cut later in the tree, and we won't miss these three at all.
Defense is the key focus when it comes to combat's new direction. With an armor boost from Reinforced Leather (currently a 25% boost to raw armor) and two different talents that buff Recuperate, it's clear that combat is designed to be the tank-y tree. They even made Blade Twisting apply to all attacks, which will help combat keep targets snared in PvP. I can't wait to see what Recuperate can do, and I don't know how far off the idea of a rogue tank may be from reality in Cataclysm. What we do know is that combat can spend a few talent points to make itself incredibly durable and even has enough spare talent points to pick up these abilities without sacrificing any core DPS talents. I feel like combat is moving in the right direction in terms of talents, and I can't wait to see what the finished product looks like.
The final change to combat is in the form of Restless Blades. I pulled out an Excel spreadsheet to do the math on this one, and my initial reaction is that it looks good. After running a few various test cases, I have put the value of this talent at around 10 seconds off each cooldown per point. If you were to take 3/3 Restless Blades, you'd be cutting 30 seconds off of the cooldowns of Blade Flurry, Killing Spree and Sprint. Killing Spree would be available incredibly often, at around 50 seconds between each spree. Blade Flurry and Sprint would drop to be available about every minute and 30 seconds, which is pretty significant in terms of improvement. The one catch is that Blade Flurry would stop lining up with Hyperspeed Accelerators, which is the optimal use case. Consider that Adrenaline Rush yields more generators in a shorter period of time, and AR would actually be lowering the cooldown on these spells even further by accelerating our finisher rate. Combat looks to retain the title of cooldown king.
Subtlety changes
Let's all take a moment of silence for Master of Deception. It's gone. And I couldn't be more excited. Blizzard is doing away with the dumb idea of "stealth levels" and just making all stealth the same, which is great. Combat and assassination rogues will be just as stealthy as subtlety rogues; subtlety rogues will simply have the ability to move faster and restealth quicker. It also frees up three points at the top of the subtlety tree for DPS talents, which this tree desperately needed.
Subtlety is now clearly designed as a dagger-wielding bleed tree. Hemorrhage lost its curious debuff and now mimics the Mangle effect, causing the target to take 30% more bleed damage. Blood Spatter is now the only talent in any rogue tree that buffs Rupture and is found in subtlety's deeper levels. Serrated Blades received the same treatment, dropping its soon-to-be antiquated armor penetration for the ability to refresh Rupture, just like Cut to the Chase does for assassination.
With Slaughter from the Shadows dropping Backstab's cost to just 40 energy, it's clear that the design is to use Backstab as your combo point generator, keep up the Hemo debuff and use Slice and Dice, Rupture and Eviscerate in that order. Honor Among Thieves will help with this rotation, and it provides the 5% crit buff to your raid as well. HAT should provide a steadier stream of CP since it now applies to the raid, and with a 2-second CD, it actually yields combo points faster than a combat rogue would generate them. We'll see if the buffs to Rupture and the bleed talents in subtlety finally make this tree viable, but I can definitely see the plan they have for the tree taking shape. Previously, it had no real direction or niche. There's also an interesting Recuperate-buffing talent via Energetic Recovery, though we'll have to see how powerful this talent becomes to decide if its actually raid-ready.
New directions
Assassination rogues will see a huge quality of life improvement via HfB's replacement, while also gaining a beat rush playstyle when their opponents drop below 35%. Combat sees its cooldowns buffed even further and a significant amount of flex points to spend wherever they want. Subtlety is finally seeing the light at the end of the PvE viability tunnel, and I think that with the mastery knob to tweak at will, sub rogues will be found in raids for the first time in recent memory. I like the direction these talent trees are going, and I hope Blizzard continues along the same tack of making utility talents easily accessible.
World of Warcraft: Cataclysm will destroy Azeroth as we know it. Nothing will be the same. In WoW.com's Guide to Cataclysm, you can find out everything you need to know about WoW's third expansion. From goblins and worgens to mastery and guild changes, it's all there for your cataclysmic enjoyment.





Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Perks Jun 10th 2010 10:28PM
I think serrated blades needs to be 100% with maximum talent points invested, it's just too RNG otherwise.
And seriously, what's with Murderous Intent? Why would you make that talent the tier below Mutilate? I don't think we'll ever have a competitive Backstab build, because Blizzard refuses to consolidate all the Backstab talents into one tree.
verrda Jun 10th 2010 11:16PM
murderous intent is designed as a sort of offbeat execute for assassination rogues.
once a target reaches 35% you use backstab instead of mutilate for the extra crit and combo points via seal fate
as far as my own opinion, i wish combat wasn't convoluted late in the tree (as compared to the beginning being "OMG WHAT DO I CHOOSE?!") it feels like they're preventing combat from getting nice top tier talents from both assassination and subtlety (i.E. relentless strikes)
assassination is just convoluted in general
and subtlety is well.....subtlety: it's all a matter of seeing how it works in play there
Perks Jun 11th 2010 10:30AM
Extra crit and combo points? Mutilate generates 2 combo points at least, and 3 if it crits. Backstab only has 10% more of a crit chance than Mutilate, so I think that Mutilate wins in the combo point generation department.
It also outdamages Backstab. The only thing Backstab has going for it is it will basically cost 45 energy on use, and I think that still won't make it worth using over Mutilate, with the loss of damage and combo point generation.
Chase Christian Jun 11th 2010 10:40AM
Perks, did you read the article?
When you said Backstab only has 10% more of a crit chance, I hope you meant 15%, because Puncturing Wounds gives it 15% more crit.
When you said Backstab will basically cost 45 energy to use, I hope you meant 30 energy, because 60 minus 30 is 30.
RTFA.
Perks Jun 11th 2010 10:54AM
I looked at the talent calculator, but I didn't put any points in it, so I kind of just took it at face value. I guess it would make sense that it would increase the energy gained by more than 15 when you put more than one point in it. :)
So yeah, I acquiesce, that makes a lot more sense, and isn't nearly as bad as I thought it was at first.
garooziz Jun 12th 2010 2:54PM
I thought I might clear a bit the benefits brought by Murderous Intent.
The true question isn't about whether Mutilate is better than Backstab, but what should we do with 60 energy once the target gets below 35%? We've got 2 clear choices (for direct damage and combo points generation) Mutilate, of course, and Backstab.
Why should I use Backstab when Mutilate generates 2 combo points instead of 1?
Again, this isn't about a comparison between the two, but a comparison of the usage of 60 energy. In this case we must compare 1 Mutilate against 2 Backstabs. Both will grant you 2 combo points if nothing crits; up to 3 combo points if Mutilate crits and up to 4 combo points if both Backstabs crit. So Backstab has the upper hand when it comes to combo points (potentially).
Why should I use Backstab when Mutilate does more damage?
I'm not sure about this since I haven't done any math, but last time I checked Backstab fell behind Mutilate in terms of damage for about 70% (approx), so I believe that 2 Backstab crits will clearly outdamage 1 Mutilate crit. This is how I expect it to work but we can't know anything for sure until we test it on live.
There's only one thing I haven't considered in this whole post. The GCD. I don't know how it affects the outcome of overall dps, but it smells like it isn't much of a big deal since it's only 1 second...(you're using 2 GCDs for 2 Backstabs instead of 1 GCD for 1 Mutilate).
Sheehun Jun 10th 2010 11:06PM
Yeah I hope they get rid of the bloating in the Assassination tree. I would really love to be able to put points into the cool utility talents like Quick Recovery or Vigor. Also glad to see that our rotation will become more complex. I've played as a Mutilate Rogue since I hit level 50 so many years ago and this is the simplest the rotation has ever been. I remember in BC before it was buffed you had to keep up SnD, Rupture, the 10 second Find Weakness buff when possible, while hoping you get lucky on DP application (usually I just went with applying DP to both weps) and while staying behind the boss at all times. It was so much fun, even though combat was way easier for slightly better dps. Can't wait to add some more buttons to my bar :)
Fletcher Jun 10th 2010 11:14PM
I'd sacrifice someone's firstborn if Vendetta came with an awesome, Avatar of Vengeance-style visual effect. If not, well, Sub becoming more PVE viable is another route to Wardenhood.
Of course, if Blizzard would just acquiesce to my demands for a Warden hero class, I'd sacrifice *everybody's* firstborn. The guilty shall SUFFER!
BigDumbFace Jun 12th 2010 1:22AM
Innocent.
garooziz Jun 10th 2010 11:25PM
Am I the only one missing the Ghostly Strike talent? My first guess would be that they're making it a trainable ability.
Can anyone confirm this, please?
Noyou Jun 10th 2010 11:38PM
I'm excited about them all and really pumped about the "Zomg he sees me!" (dead)- being taken care of.
Nighthavk Jun 11th 2010 12:48AM
Is it me, or is Subtlety becoming more and more like Feral cat rotation?
And also, it really pains me to see that the only reliable bleed rogues have access to is Rupture. Sure, Subtlety rogues are going to be vanish/shadowdancing into garrote, but still. Cats have Rake, which is a combo point builder with bleed effect, and I was surprised since day one that it was missing from rogues' arsenal.
I really like the Subtlety playstyle though, while Combat is -the- "Blow your cooldowns, hit me two times" build, a large amount of Cooldowns from Subtlety -Shadowstep, Vanish, Shadowdance- means you will want to pool energy, blow something, pool more, blow something, and usually spam Evis when you're confused, now thanks to 2 seconds HaT.
Now a single Backstab costs 40 energy, Evis costs 10 energy = 5 seconds, so you're gonna have a 6 seconds Backstab (1), HaT (4) [0, 2, 4, 6], Evis rotation, the problem/challenge with Subtlety rotation will be to ability to snipe the HaT procs and blow a finisher before CD is up to maximize the combo points generated. But since every Backstab (1), HaT (4) [0, 2, 4, 6] gives you 10 more energy than the previous, every 5th will be 2x Backstab.
It certainly won't be as dumb as previous Muti spam builds, even the simple combo/finish rotation will be challenging with the speed of combo points. You will have 4 second of windows in your "rotations" for your CDs, and you'll be using your shit rather intelligenly.
Tbh, except for the bloating down the subt a la old combat "WHAT DO I PICK", I really like Subt for PvE.
thebitterfig Jun 12th 2010 2:16AM
Don't be too quick to presume Backstab for sub. Remember, Slaughter from the Shadows reduces Backstab to 40 energy ***ON LIVE*** and sub rogues still don't use it. For BS to be part of a live sub rogue's rotation now, it need the glyph, and even with then it's only used for extending Rupture duration, with hemo when Backstab won't add a rupture tick.
The replacement of the Hemo damage charges with the mangle debuff might close the gap, but I'm not completely convinced. Given the major importance of Eviscerate for sub rogues, the fact that Backstab is weaker in terms of CP per energy might keep Hemo as the preferred energy dump (the main CP builder will almost surely remain Honor Among Thieves).
Additionally, we don't know how glyphs will change. Currently, the best glyph set up for Sub rogues is TotT, Evis, and Rupture. Eviscerate is potent as expected. The 4 seconds on rupture is quite strong, plus it now lines up perfectly with the 20 second cooldown on shadowstep. Tricks is mandatory even without 2t10 - the reduction in the energy cost of tricks to 5 makes it worth using on cooldown, and with a 20-second cooldown, the raid dps buff of an extended damage buff is wonderful. Hemorrhage's glyph will definitely change somehow, since it's charges are going away. Additionally, with Serrated Blades giving your 5-cp Eviscerates a 60% chance to refresh Rupture, both the extensions of both the current Rupture and Backstab glyphs might not be needed. If hemo winds up being something like a 10% damage buff like the Mangle glyph has, and Backstab remains a rupture-extender, it'll probably push Hemo ahead as the prefered CP builder.
kasapina Jun 11th 2010 12:49AM
Subtlety is definitely looking interesting, with rogues providing a raid wide buff. It appears that with enveloping shadows and feint, we will be mitigating quite a lot of aoe damage too (if the optimal spec guys at elitistjerks even look at non dps talents, that is). I might be rerolling subtlety, yay!
But then, assassination is also getting sweeter :D
Moxxy Jun 11th 2010 1:56AM
Sub changes seem solid but lack focus. The presence of two potential raid buffs (mange & leader of the pack knockoffs) is a good thing as well. Experience will tell if it keeps up with our other trees in DPS.
Assassination fits more of the "choice of talents" concept to me. There are choices throughout the tree. Do you not have sunder? Choose a DPS talent to drop. Want to pick up Blade Flurry & 10% melee haste from combat? You have to give up Venomous Wounds (or you could drop VW for Opportunity which is 30% to mutilate or backstab - could be large if yellow is really a higher % of our damage as promised).
Combat on the other is the opposite. Its less about making DPS/playstyle choices and more about finding filler to get to your core DPS talents. This doesn't mean it sucks (though I prefer the Assassination approach personally). It does mean its inconsistent.
Finally, I love the playstyle swap at 35% change. Gives Mut rogues something new to do. Hopefully, they give something different to Combat. I was combat in MC and most expansions have us drawn back there for various reasons. The core gameplay has altered very little in 5 years. Even if its just a knock off of execute, a rotational swap could be interesting if the reason was legitimate.
Nighthavk Jun 11th 2010 2:30AM
The problem with Subtlety is the interesting talents at the bottom are so bloated. I personally hate the 54 points I have to spend in each tree (5 pointers AND 3 pointers in Tiers 10).
Second, Subt wants specific talents from combat and assassination -hit, imp evis, imp backstab. It's just impossible. And you're really forced into putting a lot of points in Subt past 51, which decreases the potential mastery bonus from other specs.
Overall, nice talents but very poor placement. If developpers want insight and inspiration. they should take a look at Vanilla rogue talent tree, where it was beautifully elegant.
Fletcher Jun 11th 2010 2:55AM
You don't get mastery bonuses from other trees - only the tree you spend the most points in. I'm not sure how it's decided if you manage to spend equal amounts in two trees.
Lemons Jun 11th 2010 2:56AM
Blackjack is my favorite new talent. Now a rogue has a better chance of taking on 2 enemies from stealth. Sap one guy and not only is he cced for that amount of time, he's less of a threat after sap breaks! Now we're going to be using sap even in 1v1 situations.
They kind of just messed sub up though. It used to be a tree about...idk...stealth and stuff and now it's pretty much about bleeds. I always imagined sub as "the ganking tree" where you had Shadowstep and Master of Subtelety (which btw should have been buffed! 10% more damage for 6 seconds? laughable), but now it's the "I wanna be a feral druid" tree.
Camo Jun 11th 2010 9:34AM
Less a threat after a sap? Like they can't CC you? o_O
Koskun Jun 11th 2010 3:00AM
The Combat tree is so filled with bloat and useless abilities it makes me not want to do anything with my rogue right now.
Rogue's are not tanks, and giving them more armor, and a self-heal HoT - Based off some information Recuperation is a self-HoT that will restore 45% of your total health over 10 or so seconds. Guessing that it goes up to 45% based off of how many combo points you spend to do it (looks like it is a new "finisher") - will not make the class unique, it will turn them into weak bears.
Without Hack and Slash the damage potential for Combat is going to go down massively along with Energy regeneration. Improved Sinister Strike getting 5% is a LOSS of dps due to the removal of the 10% boost Sinister Strike receives in the current Blade Twisting (at a cost of only 2 talent points).
One is required to take filler points in the preview build so heavily to get to anything in the seventh tier and below.
In short, if this preview is what it will be live, Combat Rogues are done for.