Blood Sport: Personal ratings fixes the Elo rating system
by C. Christian Moore 
Jun 14th 2010 at 11:00PM
Want to crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentation of their women? Blood Sport investigates the entirety of all things arena for gladiators and challengers alike. C. Christian Moore, multiple rank 1 gladiator, examines the latest arena strategy, trends, compositions and more in WoW.com's arena column. Also, apparently, arena history is discussed as well, as evidenced by these last two articles. Mhmmm arena history -- the best kind.
Listening Music: ELO with "Don't Bring me Down." Alright, my bad for not dropping some Elo in the last article. I felt the wrath of my readers. I offer a humble sacrifice.
Last Week: We talked about the beginning of arena and how the old rating system differed so dramatically than the one we have today. The Elo system was implemented on a firm foundation, but quickly eroded due to...
This week: Personal ratings and why we have them!
Season 3 and season 4.
While the old system was grand in many respects, it had flaws. The biggest flaws with an Elo rating system which only had one rating (team rating) were point-selling and win-trading. Both of which are virtually non-existent in today's arena world. Personal rating was created in season 3 to end both of these problems. Even though many arena-boosting groups tried to duplicate their success before season 3, it was much harder, and therefore, much more rare.
If you aren't familiar with point-selling, it was a pretty big deal early in WoW's arena history. Essentially, a high-rolling exceptionally good PvP team would level up a 3v3 or 5v5 team to around 2100 or 2200 rating (at the time, these ratings were unbelievably good -- think 2700 or 2800 in today's arena world). Then, they would sell spots on the team for gold. Individuals would buy 1000+ arena points for 500-1000g. It would usually be advertised through trade and it would be assumed that the individuals would be entering three to four losing arena games. The team rating would suffer as a result, but they'd still get the points advertised.
On a good day, an owner of a 2200 5v5 team would get 4000g for selling four spots on the team -- he would then divvy it up between the people who helped him get to that point. So, all in all, for maintaining a status quo of a 2200 5v5, an individual on that team would receive approximately 800g for playing seven games, then letting other people play on that team for three games. This is a fairly balanced transaction; it isn't anything to write home about. However, when certain arena players started win-trading to maximize profits, things quickly got out of hand.
Massive Profits via Win Trading for Gold
I'll admit I have first-hand experience with win trading for gold. Season 2 was awesome business for arena point sellers. I'd make anywhere from 20,000g to 40,000g in three to five hours of work a week. 20,000g in The Burning Crusade was big gold too, think something like 50,000g nowadays -- that's probably not accurate and I should get in touch with Basil for an accurate inflation rate.
Speaking of Basil, using Basil's strategies has netted me a decent amount of WoW gold. When Basil first came on staff I had about 50,000g if I remember correctly (and most of that I had because of my Burning Crusade arena business). I'm now the proud owner of a gold-capped character (214,000g and some change) and I've got another one on the way. A bit of a plug, I know. Forgive me.
Step one -- getting the teams. Creating a lucrative point-selling/win-trading business was fairly straightforward in the beginning -- buy high rated teams. Leveling them up yourself was viable, but the time investment was usually not worth the effort. I bought two 2150ish rated 5v5s (each were top ten on the battlegroup) up from other team owners for approximately 5,000g each. So my initial investment cost was 10,000 gold.
Step two -- advertising. I'd advertise on trade that I had 1000+ arena points to sell -- 750g each buyer. I would recruit sixteen individuals who would be willing to pay the 750g (which was fairly easy to do). My arena teams gave the most amount of points each week, so I could hold a pretty decent monopoly on big spenders. Many players came back at the same time each week, so I'd only have to find three or four new players off of trade each week.
Step three -- playing the games. I had two accounts with multiple 70s on each account. I gave each of my characters a high rated 5v5 and invited eight players to each 5v5 (sixteen total). I would then play 5 games with half of the recruits, and 5 games with the other recruits (for a total of 10 games with 16 participants). Because I would instruct players to win half of their games and lose the other half (and we would always get the other team because I would queue at the exact same time), my rating on both teams wouldn't change at all (win trading).
Step four -- counting the profits. Sixteen players paying 750g is 12,000g. For my meager investment of 10,000g I had maximized a working profit of 12,000g a week. Each set of ten games took approximately an hour. If they went quick, I would use a third set of teams and make 36,000g a week. It was pretty crazy. I remember buying my entire guild and my friends their epic mounts as a Christmas present. Good times.
Step five -- get banned. Everything was going swimmingly -- until the giant season three banhammer hit. While my buyers were untouched, all my characters got stripped of their gear. Unfortunately, I wasn't saving season two gear at the time on anyone except my main character, so I was out of luck for Vengeful Gladiator when personal ratings were implemented. Oh well, shame on me for being greedy.
If given the chance, I would not do the same thing again. If we went back to a traditional single team-rating Elo system, I wouldn't win-trade. I would still sell arena points -- I don't think there is anything wrong with doing that as long as you're not win-trading to do it. It benefits both parties and no one makes out like Wall Street when it's done legit.
Personal Ratings Implemented
Personal ratings solved both problems of win-trading and immoral point-selling. For that, I'm very glad we have PR (personal ratings). They make everything a bit more red-tapish, but not to the point of making arena less enjoyable. Team hopping wasn't hurt too badly in season 3 or season 4. You could still team hop fairly decently, and you had a justifiable way of saying how good you were with a number. Now, you could say "I'm a 2200 player" and prove it. Before, even if you had the best gear and a super high team rating, people could be skeptical about how you earned it. Season 3 and 4, for many people, were the height of arena.
Next Week
We'll be looking at arena in the entirety of Wrath of the Lich King and why initial changes (and Death Knights) might have been slightly detrimental to arena...
Want to ascend the arena ladders faster than a fireman playing Donkey Kong? Check out WoW.com's articles on arena, successful arena PvPers, PvP, and our arena column, Blood Sport.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Blood Sport (Arena PvP)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
BgRdDragon Jun 14th 2010 11:12PM
i had just finished reading you other article on Elo rateings when i went back to the homepage this was their =P
Luke Jun 14th 2010 11:35PM
Well I have to say that finding out you sold points and engaged in Win trading has made me lose respect for you.
The very idea of trading wins and points like this is counter intuitive to the idea of fair competition. It doesn't matter how many people were engaged in an act. It doesn't matter if Blizzard looked the other way.
I would probably be able to forgive something like this if it weren't for the fact that you stated implicitly that you don't feel like you did anything wrong. Too bad, as I've enjoyed many of your past articles. But I won't be returning in the future.
Baba Jun 15th 2010 3:27AM
"The very idea of trading wins and points like this is counter intuitive to the idea of fair competition"
1) For one, he's not using win-trading to advance a team and cheat to disadvantage anyone, the system was flawed so that doing this allowed someone selling arena points to not have a constantly-depreciating resource base.
2) The only people who could imaginably be hurt are those that did arena the normal way and felt that they were taking the slow route. However thats exactly the same for people who are boosted up to current content, or pay to join a top raid.
If you think that not reading future articles places you on some high horse, then go for it. The fact is that this was over a year ago, no-one was hurt and people take advantage of these to make some serious dollar.
Luke Jun 15th 2010 4:03AM
Mr. Moore clearly stated that he took advantage of a broken system for profit. So you're right, he wasn't using this to advance himself. He abused the system to advance other players for profit.
As I said, it doesn't matter if Blizzard looked the other way, meaning it doesn't matter if the system itself was broken. Mr. Moore could have chosen to not take advantage of this. Clearly Blizzard fixed what was wrong with this, and his characters were stripped of their ill-gotten goods.
And yes, the people that were hurt by this were the people that chose to compete fairly (the normal way). What percentage of the player base this represents isn't important. The system was broken, it was taken advantage of by certain players and this simple fact at best marginalizes the accomplishments of players who chose fair play. Which to me seems like the entire point of this article.
High Horses are only looking for a fall. I didn't call Mr. Moore any names. I didn't attack him or even infer that he should get his own History Channel special just after the Manson Family biography and before the Hitler Retrospective.
I'm merely disappointed and no longer interested in reading what Mr. Moore has to write. He's lost credibility in my eyes because he even refers to the process as being immoral and states that he would do it again. Whether or not he would trade wins is irrelevant to me as selling points is no better or worse in my eyes.
So again, my point isn't "C. Christian Moore BAD, me good". My point is just because a system is broken doesn't mean that you should take advantage of it. Victimless crime or not.
Other people are free to disagree with me. [shrug]
Kamshad Jun 15th 2010 5:56AM
@Luke
I respect your well-voiced, justified opinion. Yet, I am curious. You say yourself, it is a victimless crime, and if anything is on benefit to all parties. The only possible loss is to the pride of those ranked lower - not an actual physical change in rank, as those very same teams had existed prior.
Your argument is similiar to those who argue against GDKP - why should people who make a lot of gold and not neccesarily skill be able to earn high quality gear? But then ask the obverse question: if the gear distribution remains unaffected by the gold-owners, why should it matter?
Here, I will categorize the (generalised) arguments against point selling into two viewpoints:
An elitist, one who achieved the position of prominence through the natural route, is unaffected by the buying of gear/rank, yet could complain because of a sense of entitlement. Not directly influenced by point selling, and recieving all of the benefits of the role as intended, the only possibly argument is a fall of pride.
A casual, who both cannot afford, or does not have the ability, to achieve rank or gear, could complain unfairness - that those with gold afford what should not be allowed. Yet who is to say that earning the gold in itself was not an achievement - who defines that the arena ranking is of more worth than gold? Either way, by gold or skill, the casual player would have not achieved the rank. Yet they feel justfied to complain - an expression of envy?
Either way, the arguments against Mr. Moore's morality are based directly around either pride or envy. Which, coincidentally, are two of the 'seven deadly sins'. In this case, is the morality of the situation so clearly defined, so clear-cut, that it warrants the complete boycotting of Colby's future articles?
The fact of the matter is that WoW is designed as a laissez faire system, and, much like the real world, money is power. Morals will be inevitably ambiguous, and judging someone on the loose system of values provided by the game for an issue like this would require quite a bit of stretching.
Luke Jun 15th 2010 7:00AM
@Kamshad
What the heck is schemantics? Is that some type of metaphysical schematic? Or a blueprint for epistimic linguistics?
;)
Just teasing sir.
I like his writing as well. That's why I'm disappointed, and why I said it's too bad. Because really I'm going to be losing out. It's not as though the loss of one reader will grant him the boot by the editorial staff.
Let me see if I can clarify my point and respond to yours.
To call his actions immoral, well those were his words. I would have gone with unethical, but maybe that's just schemantics. Either way I don't take issue with the gear or titles that were purchased. It's a combination of Mr. Moore's stance on the subject and the his participation without (for lack of a better word) repentance.
To put it as bluntly as possible:
He was a part of the problem, not the solution.
As for entitlement and elitism, envy and jealousy, let's just be very clear here. Arena was never intended for "casual" players. And it's casual players that are typically in expectation of entitlement, not the so called elitists. It's the casual players that think they are entitled to have access to gear which the elitists covet. The elitists just make fun of everyone because they assume their epeen has earned it.
Blizzard may have created an environment of laissez faire exchange. But that environment has always been intended to be limited to the exchange of goods, not team rankings. What's good for one, isn't good for the other. The Arena system was created so that players could compete with their peers in a player versus player environment and earn titles. Titles that are meant to be a reflection of skill not wealth.
Warcraft is to me what Football or Baseball are to many other people. If the college rankings each year were determined by how much money a university spent ... wait maybe that's a bad example...
I guess my problem is it cheapens the entire idea of Arena competition.
As a closing note I will say this about GDKP. First, I think GDKP is an amazing system. Second, I don't think that GDKP is anyway the same thing as we're discussing here as the only competition is between the group of players and the instance. It's not a competitive sport, raiding in a pug GDKP, in the same way Arena is intended to be.
Sinthar Jun 15th 2010 7:32AM
@ Kamshad
Victimless crime - what a phrase.
In this case - as pointed out - the victims were the innocent participants of arena. They were rated lower than the people who were deliberately exploiting the system for unfair gain. Arguing that the only loss was peoples pride is irrelevant and incorrect. There are more implications than that - some of them long term. For example I personally tried arena in TBC. With the win trading and buying going on - I was repulsed from it - a repulsion that remains to this day - and feel free to check my armoury out - and the arena related achievements - Im Sinthar of Dragonblight EU. You also go on about the only loss being the 'pride'. Surely arena - and wow - are about achieving things for your toon - and having pride in your skill. Pride if not Hubris is not that big an evil - cheating someone (or many) to feed your own is a much bigger one.
As to "Yet who is to say that earning the gold in itself was not an achievement - who defines that the arena ranking is of more worth than gold?"
Earning gold is an achievement in itself - and the reward is the gold
Is arena ranking more worth than gold - depends on the individual users view
Is buying arena ranking with gold (which CAN be bought for RL money remember) fair on the others that earn it? In my humble opinion - thats a NO!!!
As to your comment of "if the gear distribution remains unaffected by the gold-owners, why should it matter?" - this is a moot point - as you stated by referencing GDKP - gold DOES affect gear distribution - (the AH can also be seen as the same - gold affecting gear - via BOE drops/crafting etc).
Your thinking about Casual and Elitist is very wooly thinking as well. Some of the 'casual' people i know are FAR better than most 'Elitist' I know. They may be 'casual' due to MANY factors - not least REAL LIFE COMMITMENTS - sorry to shout but its something you SHOULD know and consider. Not everyone has the luxury of time, stable home enviroments, and enough money and food to play wow for long periods of time.
Lastly as to your analysis - infering anyone who thinks buying their way to the top gear is either envious or jealous is flawed too. Personally I really dont care whos got what, however my sense of justice is enraged at this underhand practice - not so much for myself - but for others - those that EARNT the items have their achievements diminished by others who may just have wealthy parents/a drug cartel/rich though their own efforts.
As to Lukes decision not to read the authors further article, that is his own. I certainly would question the authors integrity, but then as a journalist and a human being - i would guess he like all of us is a mix of good and bad. I am VERY surprised he chose to put it into an article and publish it - for the loss of confidence it will cause in some people (like luke and myself). Will i read his articles again - probably. Do i hold him in comtempt? Of course not. Will i trust his articles to be the whole truth. Probably not - as i too have lost trust in the author.
Oh and one final point - saying that anyone that doesnt agree with your point is committing a sin - which you effectively do - is a sin too - arrogence at the very least - and pride - as well as being very narrow minded as you exclude all other opinions. And a few others - that ill leave you to analyse yourself. Have i committed some too? Yes - and if you can see that - please examine your own comments with the same analyse - for your own benefit.
Take care and have fun folks (and good drops)
Kamshad Jun 15th 2010 8:05AM
My friend, schemantics is a statement of indomitable hypocrisy caused by a hurried misspelling. A well placed criticism you do make! You made me smile at my own expense :)
You have swayed me somewhat. As somebody who hasn't experienced high-level arena first-hand, I can still sympathise with the loss of prestige to have your accomplishement equalled by somebody because of a completely unrelated quality. Achieving prosperity is indubitably a skill in its own right, yet it should generally be a seperate entity to competitive arena.
That being said, so much of this game has a questionable ethic behind it, from ganking that guy farming nodes in Wintergrasp, to not allowing a person in a PUG due to not meeting gear requirements. The game environment, to me at least, epitomises the self-serving desire of the average person. A veil of anomymity allows all but the best natured to be entirely selfish, and even guises of co-operativity like guild raids, sharing loot, are often just means to the ends of ultimate personal gain.
I can't say that I condone Mr. Moore's actions, yet in the context of the game, it could be said that his misdemeanour is only worse than any other due to how publicized it is. For that reason, I urge you not to give up reading his columns. How many other columnists have done morally ambiguous things, just without them being widely known? How many other WoW players as a whole? To ignore somebody for a trait that is so widely common throughout the community, you would be limiting yourself!
Plus, your comments are awesome. Please continue reading, for yourself and others!
@ Sinthar
I apologise as I will have a shorter response to your reply than is deserving, but sleep beckons.
First of all, may I say that my response did come of very arrogant, and stronger than I thought. I have only noticed that now. Thankyou for putting me in my place.
To correct myself, my overall and actual intent was to try and paint the picture as more than a clear cut question of morals. The game is much deeper then that, and judging Mr. Moore (and his articles) entirely on his history, albeit one that may be ethically flawed, should be considered with much consideration.
As to my definitions of casual and elitist, they were a (somewhat misguided) attempt at two generalised arguments. I meant them as an overall stereotype to give an example, rather than as a strict definition. I myself am I casual player (when I do play) and I completely agree with you when you say that they are misgudied stereotypes. In this, I apologise for any hurt I may have caused.
I misrepresented my aim with my response to Luke. I apologise - my real intention was to portray it as more then a black and white issue of morality.
Luke Jun 15th 2010 8:53AM
I'm going to close my argument for now with a short response. The graveyard shift is over and it's time for me to rest as well.
A general point, I think the down ranking of responses is abused some what. The poster that originally replied to my comment shouldn't have been "hit with the gray hammer," as he or she wasn't trolling or advertising or even being rude. Just my two cents.
@Kamshad
The ability to laugh at yourself is a fine quality sir. I actually feel sorry for those who lack the capacity as life must be bleak and lonely for them.
To address the moral ambiguity of many of the actions players partake of in WoW;
Well, the fact is, unless you're a sociopath it's assumed that you have a conscience. That conscience is guided by your ability to empathize with other people and align your thoughts and actions with your community and or some form of ideology. Humans seek justification for their actions and what one person is willing to do, or not do is entirely subjective.
At the moment however, what other players do or have done is irrelevant because we're not discussing them.
I kind of missed this point when replying before so I'll make it here. Mr. Moore represents himself as an authority on the subject of PvP and Arena competition. In fact he gets paid to write articles based on this authority. To find out that he has purchased highly ranked teams, and then used those teams for profit undermines this authority in my eyes. His actions do may not speak for his knowledge of the game, but they do shade his credibility.
Other than voicing my opinion in the comments, the only other action I have to express my dismay is to simply stop reading his articles. As I said before, I do enjoy his writing style, and if he wrote fiction or on a different subject my opinion would likely be different. However we're not discussing his ability to write, but rather the subject matter and that his credibility has been undermined in my opinion.
wscotthinds Jun 15th 2010 9:36AM
I'm sorry but the only people who were NOT win trading or wishing that they were managing a team worthy of being considered FOR win trading are 'ARENA SPECTATORS' (read: Full Time PVE'ers). There have never been ethics in player killing and PVP in so far as the actual fights themselves are not manipulated (speed hacks, etc.). As far as using the system to carry spectators and make a ton of money in the process so some PVE'er could brag to his friend about what a bad-a** he was at PVP when in fact he couldn't take down anything without being carried, everybody did it. Losing respect for the poster here is just sad. Go back to your Kingslayer achievement because that means something to you.
It also took time, and money and hard work if you also brought your 5v5 UP to that rating to get there, now I never bought a team, I was always either a founder or on the roster, and worked it up from the ground. We then always sold spots on the team, however. It was just to be expected. It didn't matter if we then used the money for food, potions (so we didn't have to farm for ourselves), or whatever under the sun. When I left WOW after S4 for a while because of changes AND a far more robust welfare system ( I just brought my HWL back and in addition to the removal of badges, all but the previous season's PVP gear is DIRT CHEAP and I am saddened by this).
Rob Jun 15th 2010 10:50AM
@Luke
Totally agree with you. Its not a matter of what you won't get caught for. After all, there are many unsolved bank robberies and capital crimes. Its a matter of doing what is ethical. There should not be a policy that says 'don't trade gold for arena points'. It's just kinda a no-brainer.
Victimless? Hardly, people like me who were legitimately trying to play arena had to deal with these jerks, and the worst of them - the ones who would continuously create teams over and over so they can stomp all over guys who weren't geared and didn't know how to play PVP all that well.
Profitless? He's got over 300k gold.
If I were blizzard I would ban this guy for life, for abusing the system, then bragging about it on a semi-professional website, as a regular columnist. Further, Wow.com should consider carefully if they want to associate with people like him.
You just showed me how shallow you are, and presumably many other PVPers, which is what I long suspected, all you care about is stomping people into the ground, forget about fair play.
I'm extremely disappointed that this article was allowed to air. I call on wow.com to remove it.
Sinthar Jun 15th 2010 11:31AM
@ Luke
I have to agree with Kamshad, please keep reading and commenting - you are one of the best commenters i have seen on wow.com, and denying your insight to others would be a real shame.
@Kamshad
about your post - i realise now the arrogance coming over was unintential and i apologie if i overstated the case. It is something (coming over as arrogent) that i have done too in the past - and probably will in the future, but inadvertantly - as you have done. I also must apologise as i feel my post comes over too overbearing and self righteous.
As to the definitions of elitist and casual - you certainly did not cause me any distress - but i felt it needed to be raised as the 'casual vs Elitist' arguements normally cause more problems than they solve - mostly as casuals could easily view that as a statement that they are not skilled (I am casual also btw).
I must complement you on your humour - laughing at oneself is a sure fire way of showing you have perspective. Semantics is the word i THINK you are looking for - but as i am dyslexic im not sure. (and yes typing this lot and spell checking it is a nightmare).
@ Kamshad & Luke
Many thanks for a decent conversation put reasonably.
@wscotthinds
Your statement shows a complete lack of morales to me tbh. I hope never to have any dealings with you in game or in RL. It is also incorrect - i know a fair few teams who COULD have sold spots - but didnt, so not 'everybody' was doing it. Also the mob mentality of 'everyones doing it so i will' just shows the level of the people you are with, and their relative morality also.
Your post is obnoxious and insulting tbh. You assume much and condemn based on that. Feel free to try to flame - as you sir are a troll imo. I will not reply to you again. Have a nice life.
Oriflame Jun 14th 2010 11:36PM
Chase gets a more epic flaming than the time he suggested warrior PVP fixes that would have gimpped tanking prot warriors?
In 3... 2...
VSUReaper Jun 15th 2010 12:01AM
Lol I remember that. 100s (if not 1000s) of warriors cried out and demanded his head to be served on their shield.
Bvannas Jun 15th 2010 2:47AM
Was curious and looked it up, the warrior rage there is brilliant, thanks for pointing me to it.
Heres the link for those that want a laugh
http://www.wow.com/2010/01/11/blood-sport-protection-warriors-overpowered/
Mccullough Jun 15th 2010 7:14AM
After reading that thread i can see why people demanded his head on a shield. Hes very stubborn and very LALALA CANT HEAR YOU with his argument. Also the slide into sarcasm because hes lost said argument he wont be a part of is just charming.
Sleutel Jun 15th 2010 9:04AM
That was when I stopped really taking Moore seriously. It's one thing to suggest poorly thought-out changes because you don't understand PvE mechanics; it's another entirely to keep insisting you're right when you have a bunch of readers AND fellow staff members telling you you're mistaken (and explaining in detail how and why). When all of your comments on *your own article* are getting downvoted into nigh-illegibility, that should *probably* be a cue for you to reevaluate your position.
My last comment on that post was:
"I know very little of PvP mechanics, and would not presume to comment on what effect changes would have for Arena play. I think it would be your credit if you would admit that you are overall much too unfamiliar with PvE mechanics to comment on what would or would not constitute a class-breaking nerf for Prot Warriors in PvE."
After responding to all of my posts up to that point, Moore (shockingly) never responded to that one. He also failed to follow up on his "If [what you are saying about silence mechanics] is [true] I'll gladly eat this point and retract this statement."
JoeRandom Jun 15th 2010 12:04AM
Well, kudos for being honest about your shady past business practices. And Kids, before you start tearing him down for past failures, at least admit it takes balls to say "Hey, I've done wrong" in public.
But I gotta say, if I were Blizz, I wouldn't just strip your chars, they woud be banned altogether.
Natsumi Jun 15th 2010 1:52PM
Most people's point is that he DIDN'T say what he did was wrong. He in fact said he would do it AGAIN.
Transit Jun 15th 2010 12:04AM
Well finally you got elo up there,t....
But now you are talking about fixes, so "The Fixx" would have been more appropriate, no?
j/k :-D