Gold Capped: GDKP raiding for fun and profit

A very interesting form of raiding has been gaining popularity. GDKP stands, literally, for "gold dragon kill points." It's a badly named system, but essentially, it means that instead of some effort-based DKP system, people participating in the raid use real currency: gold.
So what is this GDKP thing, anyway?
In a GDKP raid, all items of value, whether they're BoP gear, Primordial Saronite, BoE drops, Precious's Ribbon or quest items, are auctioned off in an open bidding system to all participants. The person willing to pay the most for it will get the item in exchange for gold, and at the end of the night, all the gold that was collected is divided out among the raiders.
How can I trust this guy?
The system sounds simple, but the first question on everyone's mind is one of trust. Once you're in a GDKP run, the first thing you need to ask for is the rules. In writing, in game. The most worrying part of a GDKP run is that one person holds all the money until it's redistributed. You have to trust that person, and if a year of reading the Drama Mamas has taught me anything, it's that there are some people in this game who aren't worth trusting -- and sometimes it's hard to tell who they are.
The solution to this problem is usually pasted along with any description of a GDKP run: there are at least two blue posts where Blizzard said that they would consider running off with all the money a "scam," assuming the rules were clearly stated in game (not in Vent only).
AredekThe Game Master staff does not frequently intervene in looting disputes; however, we may provide assistance if a player blatantly attempts to scam others by promising a loot method that is not upheld. [...] If the looting method is not upheld, open an in-game petition so that our Game Master staff may review the issue further and take appropriate action in accordance with our policies.
LombalanosIn an incident where a Master Looter fails to maintain such a "cash for drops" agreement and disappears with money belonging to players, we would investigate such an incident as a scam.
Now, this doesn't mean that Blizzard condones this type of loot system. In fact, they seem to prefer that we just raid with friends. Also, with the massive amounts of other forms of spam, griefing, hacking, etc. that they have to deal with, if you do get stolen from by a GDKP leader, you may well have a hard time getting Blizzard's attention on the situation, let alone getting your money back.
The much more practical solution is to run with groups run by people who have something to lose, people who raid in a serious guild that cares about its image. Also, consider not putting up much of a fight if a reputable leader announces in the beginning of the raid that they plan on skimming some BoE pieces or saronites from the pot. This compensation makes them far less likely to blatantly steal. It's human nature.
So a combination of factors will keep the average GDKP participant safe: the deterring effect of the threat of GM account action, the cost of changing servers and possibly character names to be able to interact with other end-game raiders again, and any kickbacks for organizing the raid seem to, on average, keep pot theft to a minimum.
I like this, but nobody does them on my realm.
This system can be awesome for raiders who don't have time to farm (or better yet, auctioneer), as they will get paid for raiding. It's also awesome for people who have cash to spend on upgrades, but not the gear to get into the content they want to see. It's still a relatively new concept, though. How can you go about jump-starting one of these?
Evangelize. If you really want to start a GDKP run, you have to educate people about how it works. Be prepared to answer a lot of questions, and get the help of like-minded individuals. Advertise for a while before the first run in your realm forums.
Target your audience. You will need a lot of skilled raiders willing to raid for money. You also need people with money. The balance between the two will determine how far your run gets every week. Conveniently, Blizzard adds a monthly 5% DPS/healing/health bonus to the mix, which allows you to take weaker (and hopefully, richer) players, thereby increasing the average raider's pot. Consider talking to some of the raiders in your realm's strong raiding guilds. They may have alts they want to gear or be willing to come when they get benched. Either way, they'll know the fights and generally be more skilled than your run-of-the-mill trade chat pickup. If you can get one able to unlock ICC hard modes, you'll even be able to get lootship down, which is probably easier than Saurfang normal and generates a much larger pot than lootship normal mode.
Pick a good time. Schedule the run for a time slot that doesn't prevent raiders in the big raiding guilds from coming.
Many people run GDKP groups by hand with a shared spreadsheet or just noting down the successful bid amounts on paper; however, check out this addon if you want something more automated. Make sure to test it somewhere you can't spam trade, though, as there have been reports of the addon wigging out and spamming in a loop.
Only the skilled should get end-game rewards!
GDKP as a concept causes a lot of debate. It seems simple to me; however, there is a lot of opposition in certain camps, and some realms' cultures and average players aren't immediately enthusiastic. Here are some of the common counterarguments I hear about the GDKP system:
End-game PvE gear is for skilled players only, and gold doesn't equate to raiding skill. People shouldn't be able to waltz into a 25-man ICC group, stand in Defiles and buy a best-in-slot weapon for 30,000g. My response to this is that nobody is forcing anyone into anything. Hypothetical buyers are costing themselves 30,000g that they won't be able to use in Cataclysm and getting only gear that will be near worthless in a couple of months. In addition, while the skill of obtaining gold isn't related to raiding, the converse is also true. That's over 1,000g for every single raider in there, which represents a couple of hours less of dailies and farming.
It's not fair, because instead of gear going to people who raid the best or the most, it's going to people who may be completely unskilled but be good at making gold. The only difference between a standard DKP loot system and the GDKP system is that when you get outbid by someone, instead of consoling yourself by saying, "Ah well, they had to work harder for it, and I'm that much closer to next in line," you can say, "Ah well, they had to work hard for that gold, and now that I've taken it from them, I can buy the next one or something else." Instead of imaginary work based points that disappear when your guild stops raiding, you get hard cash that you can use to avoid grinding, buy gear (auction house BoE or GDKP loot) or spend on vanity stuff.
Finding the balance
If a GDKP group is to succeed, it needs to have some players who are so strong that they can carry any less geared and experienced players. I've heard horror stories of groups that had such a low average performance that they didn't progress far, and none of the bad players had enough money to bid much on the gear. The few good players who were basically doing all the work barely got more than they would have by doing dailies or farming. Balance is everything! If the group has some really weak players, consider raising the minimum bid, make sure they bring enough cash to make the run worth it to everyone and make sure you have the heavy hitters to progress to where the money is.
Also, no matter how much money you have, if you stand in a Defile, you will wipe the raid. In fact, there are several points in most any raid where a single key-turning Doofus McMoneybags can cost everyone a repair bill. Enforce minimum raiding skill standards, and consider having a penalty for if someone repeats a mistake too often or seems incapable of learning how to not wipe the raid on Festergut.
Filed under: Economy, Gold Capped






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
shadowhowl1900 Jun 14th 2010 7:07PM
imo, these are more successful than normal PuGs just cause people here want more gold. More boss kills=more loots=more gold.
and on my server, not sure about others, a GDKP had progressed farther into ICC25 than most guilds
Woot Jun 14th 2010 11:28PM
Ya our guild is currently 11/12 in Heroic ICC. We run a GDKP that gets 11/12 in Normal. On average each player makes ~6k gold. So spending 3 hours a week in ICC turns out to be very lucrative
JaneLame Jun 15th 2010 6:22AM
In normal pugs, people fake a DC or "have to go eat dinner". Two leavers can cause a raid to disband, and it's impossible to replace players after bosses are already dead because nobody wants to get saved.
GDKP is amazing because it SOLVED that problem! If you fake a DC, you're not entitled to a share of the final gold pot.
I only wish there were GDKP runs on my server.
Iirdan Jun 15th 2010 10:04AM
Further, replacing people for GDKP runs is even better.
/2 LF1M DPS ICC25 GDKP only Lich King left, you get a share of the pot ~6k gold!
You'd be surprised how many whispers you get.
feniks9174 Jun 14th 2010 7:18PM
I really wish my server did this. There have been a couple start up attempts, but people just didn't seem interested or gave the "it'll never work on this server" excuse.
JaneLame Jun 15th 2010 6:35AM
Furthermore, a lot of puggers are just casual players who don't have a lot of gold to bid on items. So they rather no participate, even if it's just for the money.
Pyromelter Jun 14th 2010 7:30PM
I love GDKP, and run a weekly one with one of my alts leading. On my server, Alliance side has 6/12 hardmodes in icc25 down, and horde has 10/12 normal (with 2 HM's down) in terms of GDKP progression. Would put each in the top 50 of guilds on my server if it counted as a guild on wowprogress.
Also, I feel the GDKP is the most equitable way to handle loot. If someone outbids you on an item you want this week, you will have their gold to bid on the same item next week, plus you won't be bidding against that person.
Also on my server, we pay a 5,000g cut off the top to anyone who unlocks heroic modes for a raid. A person doesn't have to be in the raid or get locked to unlock heroic mode. It gets made up for by the fact that heroic Althor's Abacus and Dislodged Foreign object will go for north of 20k gold.
Wolfcat Jun 14th 2010 7:33PM
I've been in a few of these. And turned down for a few.
One thing people need to remember is that you won't make much gold at all if the only people you're bringing are those who are already close to fully geared.
I ran in a GDKP ICC 25 where almost nothing was sold, and people then just bid on the DE mats. Bring a mix of people...those looking for a piece or two or just frost...and those looking to get a bunch of gear. You need people to bid, otherwise, what's the point of a run like this?
I understand a minimum requirement...I mean, no, don't bring somebody newly 80 or whatever or in the wrong gear, but don't turn down people just because their gear isn't above 5.5k or you won't make any money.
I recently (few weeks) transferred servers and haven't found a single GDKP run announced in that time...I really wish I could find one. Even if you don't end up winning the item you want, you end up with some gold.
[mb] Jun 14th 2010 7:32PM
We have a guildie (we call him Nord) on Boulderfist that seems to know just about everyone on the server.
Naturally, he has the best GDKP runs for ToC and ICC.
In ToC we make about 1k gold depending if the trinkets drop.
As for ICC, the record so far is 10k with 10/12 bosses killed and 3 hard modes completed.
On average though, its about 5k for ICC.
peon47 Jun 14th 2010 7:39PM
My guild had a question about this, so I asked a GM on the EU realms what would happen if someone ran off with the gold. They pretty much said that they'd take the gold off the scammer, but they wouldn't give it out to the raid, as they dont support GDKP.
And that's ONLY if they can determine it was a scam, with loot rules and chatlogs and so on.
Naphomci Jun 15th 2010 12:22AM
This is probably another case of the "keep trying until you find a GM willing to" issue. There have been many people on the forums that have gotten the opposite answer.
Pyromelter Jun 14th 2010 7:39PM
A little more info: On my server, GDKP PUGs are stratified. There are some farm runs that do 6/12 icc25; there are other progress runs where they do a "best effort" with the idea of actually killing Lich King. None on the horde side (my side) has gotten down sindragosa in 25man yet, but there are 2-3 runs that are consistently getting Putricide and Blood Queen down, and the pots for these raids will net each raider 5-7k each. The more farm runs will get you from 2-4k gold at the end.
Regarding lowly geared players, we basically don't take fresh 80s in greens, even on farm runs. The progression raids take only people that are geared for ICC25 (based on wow-heroes, if you go there and there is only green and yellow, and no red on the bar, then you are approved for possible inclusion on progression runs). The lower farm runs will take lesser geared people, but full enchants and epic gems are still required.
GoldRaidManager is the addon Basil posted above, and it works wonderfully. There is a bit of a learning curve to it though, and it helps to have people in the raid that are checking the gold numbers along with the raid leader for accuracy. Someone I know as a raid leader ended up losing 20k gold because of a snafu with the program. So it helps to have someone double-checking your numbers.
Regarding loot rules: The addon has a macro that will spam raid chat for loot rules. We go a step further and spell out in plain english that the items will be auctioned for gold, with the pot split at the end.
Final note: I have never, ever seen anyone complain about the fairness of GDKP. Even if you win no loot during a run, you win gold. No one ever walks away empty-handed from a GDKP. You can't say that about any other type of PUG.
Bergtre Jun 14th 2010 7:41PM
This system seems like the wet dream of all Chinese gold seller firms... :(
If Blizz wanted raiding gear to be available to everyone, they'd make all drops be BoE. They don't, partly becuase it would make piles of gold the best way to get good gear, not skills. One of the consequences of that is that gold buying would explode and you'd basically have to buy gold to stay competitive.
This is a step in the wrong direction, and anyone who don't like people's account being stolen by gold sellers should biycot it. Blizz should do what they can to limit it rather than condone it.
Basil Berntsen Jun 14th 2010 7:50PM
Gold sellers make money when you use your ill gotten gains on NPC gold sinks. That means nobody else gets your money, and it exits the economy. Something like this actually harms them, because I'll bet a huge part of their client base are just regular players who don't have time to "farm" for gold. Well, this is an alternative.
Pyromelter Jun 14th 2010 7:59PM
Your argument is valid, and IMO is the only argument that can be made against GDKP type runs... that you can buy gold, then buy gear. But hey, guess what? You can already do that!!! There are plenty of out-in-the-open websites where they advertise that they will run you though ulduar, toc, icc for a certain real-world dollar amounts, not to mention you can buy gold to get things like primordial saronites and all the BoE epics out there (Blood Queen's Crimson Choker, anyone?)
In a recent GDKP run, Tiny Abom in a Jar went for 42k gold. Based on what the gold spammers spam in our trade chat, that would work itself out to $168 real-life dollars. If you're gonna spend that amount of cheese, you're not going to do it in a GDKP run.
The bottom line is that GDKP doesn't foster gold buying any more than the traveler tundra's mammoth does, or 25 primordial saronites, or BOE epics like Crimson Choker. You also have to be decent enough to kill the bosses, and there are plenty of raid leaders (like myself) that will not hesitate to kick someone if they are being real d-bags.
Invader Zog Jun 14th 2010 8:12PM
I don't see how GDPK runs in any way shape or form help Gold selling firms. Most GDKPs are either hosted by legitimate Guilds or by PUG raid leaders who have built up reputation over time.
The gold is disbursed to all of the players. The net result is that by participating in the content you will either be rewarded with gold or gear. If you don't get the gear drop you wanted, you get Gold that you can use towards increasing your likelihood of getting the gear next time.
GDKP is an excellent system for pugs because traditional DKP systems only work when you have a Guild (i.e. the same group of people participating every single week) and creating an internal currency system for the run can then make sense.
The alternative to a GDKP is "one need/one greed"/etc and those systems have a lot of "fairness" issues as well.
If you don't like GDPKs, then don't participate. I for one will rarely participate in any pug raids on my alts that are not GDKPs because the GDKP runs I have been on have been far more successful and drama free.
Invader Zog Jun 14th 2010 8:03PM
I'm a big fan of GDPK runs. I have two experiences worth sharing.
1. I was a part of a run where the organizer ran off with the pot at the end. There were warning signs we should have been aware of (it was a freshly geared 80 without any Guild affiliation). We submitted the information to the GMs and after a week or so they distributed to everyone in the raid what their fair share should have been. I would have loved to have found out what sort of punishment/etc the a**hole received, but they don't release that. It's also a shame I can't find out what other toons the person plays on since I am sure they are still on our server.
2. I had one day that I ran on a number of different GDKPs that w/ higher transactional volumes (i.e. bought a fair number of items and the GDKPs also paid out relatively high gold amounts). I ended up getting my account banner briefly because this flagged some of Blizzard's automated fraud detection algorithms (i.e. they thought I was a gold seller). I ended up placing a call into Blizzard and after 45 minutes on hold, got through to a CSR who got things worked out a few hours later.
Edge Jun 14th 2010 7:57PM
One question I was curious about when reading this. How can you know if someone in the group is purposefully raising the bids for the group on purpose, just to get everyone more money? It could be someone that is in the guild, but not on this particular toon, and it could be that they bid for it, but never give the money because they never intended on spending the money, only try to raise the bid prices for the rest of the group (so essentially the entire group was involved in the fraud). I would imagine part of it is if you bid you don't get money, and if you get money, you don't bid, but that still leaves the question of a guild using a non-guild alt to do the fraud.
Pyromelter Jun 14th 2010 8:11PM
The way the gold raid addon works, it would not allow someone to do that. The addon works in a way such that the winning bid is added to the pot which gets split at the end. The master looter has all of the raid's money (the pot), so if someone who was a straw bidder won a bid, and didn't pay, that would come out of the master looter's pocket. No one in their right mind would do that. And if you are referring to a collusion where the winning item doesn't get paid for and goes to a certain person, and then the master looter decides to not add that auction into the pot, that is why you have someone double-checking all the auctions. Another person double-checking the loot logs and bids would notice that right away, and the raid leader or group of people would be rightly ostracized from ever running GDKP again.
Regarding someone intentionally raising bids as a "bluff," in other words bidding to force someone to pay higher for an item, there is nothing wrong with that. The only problem would come if someone gets called on their bluff and could not pay for the item. You win it, you buy it, I don't care if you are a mage who bid 2500 on Bryntroll to make that DK pay 3000 for it... if that DK doesn't bid 3k, then you are buying that 2h axe for 2500. We have had people do that where it's worked, and we've had cases where it's backfired (like a warlock bidding on heroic gunship mail bracers, and the hunter chose not to outbid him).
Basil Berntsen Jun 14th 2010 8:50PM
Doesn't matter- if they're bidding, that's a commitment to buy it. If they win and refuse to buy it, they get kicked and replaced, and lose anything they earned. If they risk a bid to inflate the earnings of 24 other people, that's actually a service to the others and a risk to themselves.