Drama Mamas: Rowing in opposite directions
by Lisa Poisso 
Jun 18th 2010 at 2:00PM
Sometimes there are good reasons that people don't make the same choices as you do. What you might consider to be a perfectly reasonable rationale for jumping ship and moving to a new guild sometimes holds no water for someone who's rowing a different direction in another dinghy. This week, the Drama Mamas take slightly different tacks with a reader who thinks her friend is lost at sea.
Dear Drama Mamas,
Back in January, I left a guild that I'd been an officer of for years. I left because due to internal personal issues, many of the guild members had grown apart and all that was left was myself, the GL, and one other person. In addition, the GL joined with a raid that one of her friends ran which effectively destroyed our own guild's raids. However, since then I've kept in close contact with the guild members who had left before me even though they don't speak with each other. I'm not concerned with trying to reunite the old gang because some of their issues are just too large for a game to erase.
My issue is this: the old guild leader and I are great friends which has carried over to RL. She still keeps her guild even though it's effectively dead and only has one active member. The people she surrounds herself with in-game are not good for her, however. She raid that she runs with creates a huge amount of stress for her, especially the raid leader that is simply a giant jerk. She's slowly losing her love for the game due to these people that she's begun running with.
I am part of a new guild that is absolutely fantastic, much like the old guild used to be before it fell apart. I think she'd not only be a perfect fit but she'd find herself creating an entire new group of friends that are much more positive. However, she isn't responsive to my talks. How can I help her to let go of her dead guild and break away from her negative friends?
Ony (not the dragon; I was first)
Drama Mama Lisa: Ony, give up the strat lectures. Very few people respond well to the virtual Wing Buffet of a lecture on how the way they play is wrong or how your way is better. What your friend has built in your absence (despite whatever you think about it) is meaningful and important to her – other friendships and relationships, a sense of responsibility, leadership, nostalgia ... You can't Tail Sweep that aside with words, no matter how well-intentioned they may be.The key to this encounter, Ony, is more DoTs -- more DoTs, more DoTs, more DoTs please. You can't lead this dragon out of the fire, but you can quench her thirst with your own drink. Offer her a tall, refreshing glass of no-strings-attached fun. Show her the brighter side of raiding by inviting her along for some raids or events with your guild. Do not, under any circumstances, present these as anything more than fun for fun's sake. This isn't an audition or an interview. Nobody should feel any sense of obligation. Think DoTs -- cast an example of what raiding could be like for her, and then let the idea tick, tick, tick away ...
At that point, since you two are real-life friends, any passing comments you make about your own raids, guildmates and happenings will have a frame of reference for her. You can bring things up more naturally in conversation. In the meantime, try to carve out some in-game time for the two of you; perhaps you could start a new pair of characters together, a "get-away" pair. The idea is to enjoy your friendship with all the doors wide open -- but no pressure, no manipulation, no strings.
If your friend finds your idea of fun to be appealing, rest assured that she'll perk up and look toward that open door. If not, you'll have made the most of your shared time in WoW. Until then, your job is to be there with a hug if she decides to step through that door and join you.
Drama Mama Robin: Ony, I don't want to speak ill of your friend, but I have my reservations about bringing her into your new guild. The phrases that worry me are:
- "some of their issues are just too large for a game to erase"
- "the GL joined with a raid that one of her friends ran which effectively destroyed our own guild's raids"
- "She still keeps her guild even though it's effectively dead and only has one active member."
- "The people she surrounds herself with in-game are not good for her."
These set off big drama alarms. I'm sure she's a good friend to you and is a skilled raider, but I don't necessarily think she's a fit for your "absolutely fantastic" guild. I think that her not wanting to join you is probably for the best.
I'm a huge fan of Lisa's getaway idea. Make a duo off server to hang out with her and otherwise just let the guild recruitment go. That way you get to enjoy the best parts of your friend without bringing her drama to your great guild.
Drama buster of the week
If your actions could even remotely be described as "antics," consider the possibility that you could be making an arse of yourself. Make sure others are laughing with you and not at you -- your ongoing reputation (trying to join a PUG raid or new guild?) and fellow players' comfort levels (hoping to slide into that main tank slot?) will thank you.
Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at dramamamas@wow.com.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Toranja Jun 18th 2010 2:10PM
BAHAHAHAHAHA SO MANY PUNS! Loved it.
Grovinofdarkhour Jun 18th 2010 2:15PM
That bear? Looks to me like... he's on a boat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7yfISlGLNU
Rubitard Jun 19th 2010 7:57AM
Bare durids is can be on boatz. No needz Seel.
Rubitard Jun 18th 2010 2:41PM
What, you couldn't shoehorn in a whelp cave reference, there Lisa P? I keeed! I keeed!
Love your article as always; voices of reason in an otherwise mad world (of Warcraft).
zubbiefish Jun 18th 2010 4:05PM
I'm with Robin on this one.
Sometimes rose coloured glasses affect how we view our friends. Sometimes, the drama is them no matter how much we think it may not be. Sometimes...
I went through one of these things. I chose the dramatist, as it turns out, and, although I will forever lay in the bed that I made, regret my eyewear.
That's all in the past but if I knew then what I know now I'd have played it differently.
Extend your hand in friendship. Do not screw up your enjoymet of the game because of it.
Drama is as drama does.
Scooter Jun 18th 2010 5:41PM
Ah, this is a very common problem in WoW and is a part of a life lesson your friend will have to learn on her own. This lesson I've been preaching in one form or another since I quit M.U.D.'S. The lesson is learning the value of the time your spending.
Just remember, so long as your friend isn't ruining her life its best not to be forceful. Take Lisa's advice and offer her a more enjoyable way to spend her time. Eventually she will bite.
However, If your friend is neglecting something serious such as her job, family, grades, etc then let the people close to her know.
Ard Jun 18th 2010 6:00PM
Isn't this why alts exist? She doesn't have to give up her old guild at all and it's unreasonable to ask her to. All she has to do is roll another alt or dust one off. It's not an all or nothing situation.
Eisengel Jun 18th 2010 6:03PM
To start, all of the below is entirely conjecture, please do not take it as a blueprint or guarantee.
To me this sounds a lot to me like Avoidant Personality Disorder, possibly Schizoid. These people tend to be very private, relatively uncommunicative and standoffish - but usually really want to be a socially-accepted and liked person. They're often driven to constantly accomplish goals and then exceed their previous goals because that gives them quantitative personal validation. In short, they feel very uncomfortable with themselves, and usually really want to be a social person, but just can't figure out how to. They often turn to exact, quantitative measures of performance (ding! you just leveled - ding! you beat the boss... etc) to derive personal value. This drive can cause such people to gain ranks and levels of distinction (guild leader) not necessarily because they want them, but because they need to achieve the next level.
They also may feel comfortable and have a certain rapport/sympatico with 'misfits' or people who don't fit in to most other situations.
Dealing with people like this can be difficult. They may know what they want to do, but may lack the stamina and may be honestly frightened by moving to a new social situation. They tend to like predictable situations and environments, even if they are unhappy in them. In their mind they may be happier with a boring or bad environment that they are used to, than with a potentially great environment or situation that is new. The act of moving into and committing to a new environment where they don't know the personalities, the running gags, who likes whom, who doesn't like whom - in general all the little elements of being the newcomer to an established group - can generate massive stress and cause them to withdraw, to pull back so that they don't feel vulnerable, which usually results in people viewing them as strange, arrogant, distant or weird, which can often guarantee them a low social standing.
The best way to motivate someone like this to join a group is often through job or duty. If you find time to play with them say, "Wow, you're really good at X. You know, our raid really needs a good X, but we can't find one. I could ask if you could sub in some time," or some variation on that theme. This alleviates the pressure on your friend two ways:
1. They're there to fill the X role. That's their job. They have a defined function and can judge their performance. There is no defined way to be a 'guild member', but there is a defined way to be an 'off tank' or 'healer'... etc. They don't have the difficulty of figuring out who they are, where they fit or how to act because they have a title/label/position.
2. Low pressure since the arrangement is temporary. They know that once the raid is done, they can take off for their usual corner again. This is not an all-or-nothing move. Over time they can begin to learn how to interact in the group, and the group won't expect as much interaction with them since they're 'just a sub'. if the group is generally positive, respectful and appreciative, your friend may warm to them. This will likely take some time.
If they join, they will likely push to be a guild officer. You may want to see if they can instead be a class lead or role lead. This gives them recognition as an 'expert' and a rank of distinction, however they are not responsible for ironing out or dealing with personality problems or disputes. It gives them a quantified way to benefit the guild; their knowledge of a class/spec/role.
To conclude, however, all of the above is entirely conjecture, please do not take it as a blueprint or guarantee.
Prissa Jun 18th 2010 7:56PM
Omg you just described me. Curious how you generally can't put people into little tabbed boxes like that, but this time...
Gambit5555 Jun 18th 2010 8:14PM
Damn Eisengel, I was just about to say the exact same thing
Meg Jun 19th 2010 7:02PM
You can't diagnose (even conjecturally) a personality disorder from a 3-paragraph letter that isn't even from the subject's view. It's borderline insulting.
Kylenne Jun 18th 2010 6:35PM
Sometimes there's just too many whelps to handle. :(
Matthew Jun 18th 2010 6:47PM
My old guild fell apart, but we all keep in contact with the chat channel feature. very cool.
Hollow Leviathan Jun 18th 2010 6:56PM
Lisa's drama mama picture...distracts me. Maybe talk to your tailor about letting out an inch for a certain portion of your dress? That's, uh, quite snug.
Gambit5555 Jun 18th 2010 8:16PM
....
RobynM Jun 18th 2010 8:23PM
I have to strongly disagree with Robin on this one. None of those points presumes that the person Ony is writing about is a drama factory.
1) "some of their issues are just too large for a game to erase" clearly refers to the old guild's membership as a whole and not the GL in specific.
2) "the GL joined with a raid that one of her friends ran which effectively destroyed our own guild's raids" - In context, this could be read as happening after the guild had grown apart. Also, as is stated there, the GL had at least one friend in this other raid, which is extremely likely to have been a major motivating factor in her jumping from a sinking ship.
3) "She still keeps her guild even though it's effectively dead and only has one active member." - This is a drama warning sign? Really? Maybe it's a cute name and she doesn't want it to die. Maybe, like me, she's of a sentimental nature and doesn't feel comfortable letting go of that last souvenir of the old guild. Or maybe, like a bazillion other people in WoW who have one-person guilds, she's simply making good use of the guild bank.
4) "The people she surrounds herself with in-game are not good for her." - First, this is purely a value judgment on Ony's part. However, even if it does happen to be true, perhaps GL's friend in the other raid stuck their neck out to get her in and she doesn't feel comfortable leaving them in the lurch.
Lisa's got the right of it - Ony needs to back off. Make some you-and-her characters, maybe offer to help build up an alt who could join up *if she wants to*. Go with the fun angle, DO NOT harp on how awful the people she's currently raiding with are or how much better off she'd be in the new guild. Finally, Ony may have to accept that GL isn't going to join up and let the whole thing drop.