Wrath Retrospective: What we learned from death knights, page 2

Death knight DPS
Tanking is not the only aspect of PvE that death knights have held a significant impact on shaping: there is also the wide changes that death knights have brought on the DPS scene. WotLK has been an amazing change of philosophy for WoW with the bring the player not the class (BtPntC) design, yet it has also caused many of the issues that we have seen today. BtPntC hinges upon two distinct principles of equality: damage equality and utility equality.
To many players, damage equality is of the utmost importance. I think we can all agree that damage is one of the key driving forces of virtually every combat based game out there; healing is nice, soaking damage is all well and good, but it is the raw power of a character, it is their ability to blast things to bits, that is really exciting. Death knights have shown us many a problems that can exist within damage equality, particularly in regards with melee attacks.
Unholy has been one of the prime DPS specs of choice throughout much of the death knight community. Blood and frost are to be respected, and they've demonstrated many things in their own right (in fact, frost is my personal favorite); however, it's been unholy that has demonstrated a key facet of damage the most. I am, of course, referring to mixed damage attacks -- those attacks which are based both physical and magical. Scourge Strike more than anything else has been the best indication of how difficult it is to properly balance out these effects. Magical damage is based around the principle of how it ignores armor; which is an excessively powerful mechanic that often goes ignored by many players. Allowing a melee class to wield magical abilities isn't a strange or new concept, but it is a difficult concept to balance effectively.
At its most basic premise, original RPGs operated in a sort of rock-paper-scissors method; magi beat warriors, warriors beat rogues, rogues beat magi. In the beginning of WoW, that was actually the basic premise of how PvP operated - more on this later - however WoW has evolved beyond such a basic form since then; melee classes overall are rarely restricted to physical attacks. Aside from warriors, nearly every melee class in the game deals some form of magical damage. Death knights moved further beyond what any other melee class has before; they are the perfect combination of physical and magical. Only blood differed from this in any way, which is why it isn't surprising that blood is becoming a tanking tree in the next expansion. By focusing solely on the duality of the death knight class, Blizzard has shown they can make this duality work, but it takes time, it takes work. This is often frustrating for players, understandably so, but in this case we must have patience.
Beyond damage equality, there is also balancing the utility that classes bring. This is the second principle of BtPntC; spreading out utility, homogenizing utility, in an effort to allow for leeway in class choice when it comes to filling out a raid group. That being said, we have quickly learned that not all utility is created equal. It isn't merely enough that various classes are able to provide a specific buff within whatever capacity it is that they can; the method in which that utility is brought must also be done equally in order for the philosophy to be successful. Although death knights might not be the perfect example of this, elemental shaman with Totem of Wrath and demonology warlocks with Demonic Pact might be better, the lack of power in the death knight's unbalanced utility is predominately caused by the lack of encounter design to support it. Ebon Plague is, at the core, perfectly balanced in respects to Earth and Moon, although both are far superior to Curse of the Elements, but Ebon Plague has one mechanic which neither of the others do -- the capacity to be spread to multiple targets with only a single press of a button.
Pestilence and the way it interacts with Ebon Plague is a huge breach in the equality of class utility. If there had been any examples of boss encounters with a significant number of clustered adds where this imbalance had made a difference. I do not feel that I can stress the capacity for this mechanic to have been such a stringent requirement enough; had a more creative workaround not been developed, unholy death knights would have certainly been required for dealing with Vile Spirits on heroic Lich King. Even though it never really became a major issue, Blizzard learned quickly of this issue, sadly, though, they haven't addressed the core of it. They are, slowly, with Cataclysm, and that is a good change.

As much as I postulate on the PvE aspect of the game, that is but a fraction of everything that encompasses WoW. Although I am not a PvP expert in the sense that I don't carry around a gladiator rank, nor do I have a top rated team, I do follow the balancing mechanics of PvP very closely. The most interesting thing about PvP balance is how everything hinges upon such a thin thread; even minor little changes to a certain class can have a widespread impact on what teams, classes, and specs are considered to be viable. For everything that the death knight class has taught us about PvE balance, we have learned so much more about PvP balance from them.
Death knights were created virtually as a direct counter class. During the last days of TBC PvP, restoration druids were the king of kings when it came to healing. Their strength now is debatable, but back then no one could deny the awesome power that druids held. Blizzard made a very big slip when they originally developed death knights -- they were clearly made to overthrow the druid overlords of the time.
The flaw of counter classes
Designing a class to directly counter another class is a terrible design plan. This may not seem obvious, or perhaps it does to you, but within a PvP system as complex as WoW's counter classes simply cannot exist. To some extent, it may seem sensible; however, it could quickly turn into an arms race of how many classes a specific spec can counter, and then there's the class representation imbalance as well. There's a very good reason why PvP cannot be balanced around the high end. Beyond the basic flaws such as skill or other human reasons, there is the most basic human reason of all; that certain players of certain classes are simply more likely to engage in PvP than others. Just to throw out an example, say rogues are more likely to play in PvP; this would mean that any class or spec specifically designed to counter rogues would be at an advantage in terms of creating a stronger team, which would lead to a population imbalance against rogues and their direct counter classes. Eventually this would lead to a higher number of players switching to the class that counters the class which counters rogues, and so on and so on would the cycle repeat itself.
Each class needs to be designed to have certain flaws, certain weakness, and also certain strengths that they can capitalize upon. These weaknesses and these strengths can make them better suited at handling certain classes but never should it allow them to so dominate another class that they will always win no matter the variable of skill. Death knights have taught us this excessively. They were designed to counter restoration druids, and it showed. The representation of restoration druids didn't just drop significantly, it cratered, they completely fell off the face of the earth, or Azeroth if you like. This is why death knights were changed, for better or worse: because Blizzard realized that designing classes to specifically counter others is not a wise choice.
The dispel problem
Dispels are a huge PvP issue; they have been for a very long time. Ever since the on set of arenas, dispels have been under attack for the power that they hold. Blizzard realized this at the time; they thought about change, yet nothing was really implemented for WotLK. Perhaps, at the time, they figured that merely increasing the number of armaments within the race would actually lead to an equalizing effect; sadly it did not. Death knights were actually rather integral in showing this as they were perhaps the weakest class when it came to being vulnerable to dispels.
Thankfully this is finally being fixed, to what degree we cannot yet be certain, yet we can be certain that Blizzard has learned from the flaws that death knights have highlighted.
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Reader Comments (Page 4 of 4)
zdave Jun 23rd 2010 4:25PM
WTB a healing hero class. don't say paladins.
on topic though, i do love my blood dk tank. there's just something about doing more healing than the healer (in some cases) that i enjoy. most of those small amount of cases can be attributed to me blasting through heroics and my self healing being instant.
also for speedy heroics, i think most tanks are speccing further into the unholy tree for Morbidity and maybe Epidemic and Unholy Command.
Joester Jun 23rd 2010 6:18PM
What did I learn about DKs? 90% of them are retards.
Seriously Dumb Knights, stop asking for Titans Grip, a Shield, or Mortal Strike.
ROLL WARRIOR FFS!
Stop QQing.
Redielin Jun 23rd 2010 8:27PM
Resto Druid fell off the face of the PVP earth because of the change in the health:damage:healing ratios. It had a whole lot to do with the fact that unless you had a 100% immunity cooldown in season 5, you were unable to compete. It had little to do directly with Death Knights. Same reason Warriors, disc priests, and Warlocks fell off the map then too.
As a main spec hybrid DPS myself (shadow Priest), I think the amount of consternation over the hybrid tax in PVE is overrated. I've seen Boomkin, Shadowpriests, and other hybrids be quite competitive with pures in most situations. When we're talking hybrid tax, we aren't talking 10%. We're talking maybe 1-2%. I'm sure that someone is going to pipe up with some quote somewhere saying it should always be 5% or 10% or something. Malarky. If you aren't competing on some fight, the moment you say "its because of my class" is the moment you *stop getting better*. Stop making excuses for yourself; you are only holding yourself back. Go out there, do some research, and figure out how to squeeze that last bit of DPS out of your character.
There are some cases where specs fall so far behind that raids just stop taking them. (for example: shadow priests in t9). Don't wait for your class to get buffs. Go out there and get better. Go out and find someone in a better guild than yours who can do twice the dps you can in the same gear. Find someone from a spec that is similar to yours (I have a warlock tutor that I bounce ideas off of, for instance) and learn from them. But don't make excuses for your poor performance. There's way too much of that in WOW already.
Also, DPS is like running away from a bear. You don't have to be the guy at the top of the meters, just as long as you aren't consistently the guy on the bottom getting beat by someone with half the gear you have. Or worse, the guy eating turf because you stood in fire.
falc Jun 25th 2010 9:28AM
Honestly tho.
Don't you feel that it is the pure DPS classes who have gotten the bad end of the stick in this expansion.
Wasn't the hybrid tax supposed to DEFEND the pure classes from being excluded from raids? By giving the classes just that edge?
There was a nice post on wow.com that put together 3.3.3 best dps classes in raids - http://www.wow.com/2010/05/06/icc-dps-analysis-by-spec/
So the people who actually can cry FOUL are the warlocks for being behind every damn hybrid out there except for DK-s who can also cry foul for being behind every other damn hybrid.
So i'm sorry but the conclusion here is that to top the meters on my lock in any raid you have to work that much harder. And people are wondering why the warlock population is the lowest in wow of all the classes?
Farthing Jun 28th 2010 10:04PM
"Hybrid tax" needs to be axed.
Blizzard has difficulty enough making balanced classes. Asking certain classes to come out behind adds a needless complication that is rather silly to the design process, and hurts both raid and pvp viability. Pure dps classes will always be SLIGHTLY less desirable than hybrids simply because the versatility of dual spec makes hybrids more useful.
At the end of the day, you still need half your 10 man raid composed of dps, and almost 2/3 of the raid in 25 man. Coupled with the fact that if you don't diversify your class base in the raid you are more likely to get wasted gear drops, there is no reason to worry about being a pure dps class. Asking for a hybrid task is only hurting a group's ability to do an encounter, or beat another team.
Farthing Jun 28th 2010 9:43PM
Reasons for Death Knight Hate Explained:
Death Knights, being new, received special treatment to work them into the game.
As a Death Knight, you are given everything at the start. Other classes have to work VERY hard to get these compared to Death Knights, even by todays LFG tool standards. If you work for months to earn enough money to buy you
Death Knights, are everyone's concern.
Because Death Knights are given so much at the start, they are FAR more attractive as a second character than ANY other class in the game in terms of effort required. Further, the power level they possessed at the beginning of Wrath was such that many people who weren't initally interested in the class flocked to it after seeing what it could do. Secondly, it had the novelty of being the first class added to the game, so everyone was focused on the Death Knight for almost the first half of the expansion.
Death Knights received more tweaking attention
How much of this is a result of the previous item is debatable, but because so much balancing was required for Death Knights, as all the abilities were untested, the entire class was repeatedly overhauled until everything was where Blizzard wanted it. Other classes did not receive this overhaul, largely because it wasn't needed, but like any first child watching a parent look after its younger sibling jealously takes over.
Death Knights are like Jedi.
Throughout most of the story in WCIII and even WoW, Death Knights have been almost invincible forces of power. If you saw a (NPC) Death Knight, something BIG was going on. Rivendare was probably the first most would take down, and he was at the VERY end of a challenging dungeon and was a HUGE challenge unto himself. Even in BC we run into Teron Gorefiend and he manipuates players and becomes a raid-boss. Death Knights were something that struck awe into players, so their abilities were designed to do the same. However, as many star wars games have learned, when you introduce a playable version of such a powerful iconic group, either everyone plays one, or something has to be lost.
Did you think we had forgotten? Did you think we had forgiven?
Some people like to hold grudges. The memory of being ludicrously overrun by ANY class especially when you feel you did your best is something that is hard to swallow (in PVE or PVP). People don't want to give up, so instead of blaming themselves, they will blame the balancing system. As any player that has been around long enough will tell you, many initial assumptions like this are wrong. However if there is even a small adjustment to a class that serves as a nerf, often people that have been beaten by that class will jump on the nerf and claim that it's not enough. First impressions last and Death Knights certainly made a big one.
Redielin Jun 29th 2010 4:32AM
I play a shadowpriest. You'll notice on that list, warlocks and shadowpriests are pretty close on those charts, usually warlocks pulling a little ahead. We do similar DPS because our playstyle (especially affliction). That playstyle (DOTS) is really powerful when there are lots of adds, and both adds and bosses take a really long time to die. What it lacks are powerful cooldowns you can line up, at least, in comparison to, say, Mages, Hunters, and (combat) rogues.
Now a couple things about that list. Reading that article and saying "well, this is a list of the best DPS specs in raids" is the wrong way to read it. It's overly simplistic. What he is saying is that there is a 5-10% window most DPS classes sit in. If you're in this window, that is about as balanced as you're going to get. Another way to read it is, if you're in that 10% window, then your place on the meters is more about your skill than your class. For instance, say you're a warlock or shadow priest, and your skill puts you in the "top" DPS parse, whereas the rest of your raid is in the "average" range. That puts you at or close to the top: the top Spriest is doing 10k DPS, and if you put him in the average group, that puts him on top. The difference between that 10k DPS and the approx 7.5k DPS normal shadowpriests are doing? Some of it would be gear, perhaps, but since those parses are all from pre-heroic modes, the gear window between the two are actually quite small. Both are wearing 264 loot. One is just doing a lot better with the same gear.
I've seen this in reality. We have a lot of Paladins. A *lot* of Paladins. So our DKs, for instance, got their 4pc t10.264 gear *a lot* sooner than our Mages and Warlocks. They also got some pretty nice trinkets quicker, because there were a lot fewer melee sharing trinkets than casters (as is generally the case since most raids bring more ranged than melee). These guys were wearing gear half a tier better than us, with better trinkets, and our top Warlock and I *always* beat our DK on the meters. Was this guy bad? Yes, he was.
Our other DK did 10 times better than he ever did. But we beat the "good" DK most of the time as well. Skill counts for a lot, really.
I have a problem with that article. The problem is, whenever you start comparing classes, people start making excuses for themselves by pointing to articles like that and saying "its my class!" when really, the article itself contradicts this. Don't make excuses for yourself. You're basically refusing to get better. If you're in that 10% window, then skill is what you are lacking not class or gear. The people who have something to complain about are the specs in the low range, BM Hunters, Arms Warriors, Frost Mages and so forth.
Our top DPSers are a Warlock and a Hunter. Sometimes, our rogue gets up there, but usually I can beat our rogues and mages on my Shadowpriest. Does that make these players bad? Well, in my *average* raid, I definitely take my DPS more seriously than some other players. However, some of our rogues are pretty serious too, but they can't hold a candle to me on fights like Putricide, or even Rotface. Festergut is a different story.
Basically, unless your raid is made up of 25 of the baddest badasses, you should be able to top the DPS meters with a decent dose of skill (and good trinkets, trinkets make a huge difference) and gear. You can control one of those factors (skill). Stop QQing about your class and making excuses for yourself and go get better. Unless you play a frost mage. Then you have something to QQ about. (then said Mage should go spec Fire or Arcane right away.)
JD Jun 29th 2010 2:17PM
Well considering any "good" player can get an idea of rotations and what to use andnot use from talents. DK's starting at 58 isn't a big deal at all. I have an 80 DK that took me a year to level 70-80 that im now pulling 18-20k dps on trash in icc and 11k on bosses all without ever looking up rotations or reading DK blogs.