by Alex Ziebart 
Jun 29th 2010 at 11:45PM
Filed under: Cataclysm
| Event | Date |
|---|---|
| Love Is In the Air | 2/2 - 2/15 |
| Blackrock Foundry Normal and Heroic open | 2/3 |
| Darkmoon Faire | 2/8 - 2/15 |
| Blackrock Foundry Mythic opens | 2/10 |
| Lunar Festival | 2/16 - 3/2 |
| Blackrock Foundry LFR wing 1 opens | 2/17 |
| Blackrock Foundry LFR wing 2 opens | 2/24 |
| Darkmoon Faire | 3/1 - 3/8 |
| Blackrock Foundry LFR wing 3 opens | 3/10 |
| Blackrock Foundry LFR wing 4 opens | 3/24 |
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
ash Jun 29th 2010 11:53PM
It looks more and more like the Old Ones are going to be playing a larger role than I previously expected. I wonder where they are going to fit in the scheme of things. If Deathwing is the Arthas to Cataclysm will we face him pretty much last? In which case where does that leave room for tackling the Old Ones? Are we going to have Ulduar 2.0 in Cataclysm?
Shassar Jun 30th 2010 12:23AM
I think it's more like Deathwing has strong ties with the Old Gods; instead of fighting them on the sidelines like Arthas, Deathwing will probably be allied/friendly to the Old Gods seeing as they're the ones who corrupted Neltharion in the first place (accoding to the Yogg encounter).
Etreya Jun 30th 2010 7:00AM
you have to remember that the elementals of azeroth once worshipped and revered the Old Gods before the titans came along and banished them. So it wouldn't suprise me if Elemental Lords like Neptulon had faceless ones stalking their halls.
Grovinofdarkhour Jun 30th 2010 10:52AM
I think this is their unofficial theme song.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpmWIyjilQo
Noah Jun 29th 2010 11:55PM
Ok, this is unrelated to the screenshot, unfortunately, but I wanted to ask this in the Queue today (which there was none). Since I'm leaving tomorrow for a while, I figure this is the only time to share this little discussion point:
As new Cataclysm information is released, often to make the game more accessible and to have a higher fun-versus-grind ratio, I’ve been thinking about what is lost in the process. As each zone becomes more linear, the quests seem more constricting. With autocomplete quests and every part of the zone used in a certain order, it appears to me like the world is becoming less of a world to explore — less like when I first went through the game. Those old questlines that encompass multiple zones or grueling amounts of work are also said to be some of the “most epic in the game,” and those dungeons, such as BRD, that are sprawling and confusing are also said to be some of the coolest. For every one of those that are lost to ToC’s and for huge raids that are brought down to 6 bosses, or linear pathways, or environments that are too accessible, so that there is nothing hidden or unmarked, you lose some of the *wonder* that you would have had otherwise. Part of what makes the world seem so lifelike is how organic and UN-developed it is. Northrend feels less so.
Blizzard has said many times, of course, that gameplay > lore always, but to me, this isn’t really lore. This is the *world* in the World of Warcraft. When you lose some of the world — they can throw you right over to the boss without trash that adds to the environment, or stop making you move around the world to find your questgiver, and countless other things — you lose some of the immersion. And when the immersion is gone, a thought can run through your head: “Why am I doing all this, anyway?”
Food for thought.
matthewggrammer Jun 30th 2010 12:04AM
You can quit playing anytime you like. And I'm not saying that to be mean. Food for thought.
I'm sure Blizz knows ToC was a failure. It was. Naxx wasn't like ToC. Nor was Uldaur, nor ICC. Hell, even OS wasn't.
I agree, ToC sucked. But it wasn't the entire expansion.
For me, I like how every mob is tied to a quest. I like not having to go back to the questgiver. I enjoy what makes the game fun, and that's the act of doing the quest, or killing the boss, or blowing through the trash. The act of running back to the quest giver, or the trash pull that takes longer to set up than kill, or even the boss that takes a month to farm out because you lose if someone dies before phase 4 (or whatever) ... that's not enjoyable.
I don't want to be spoonfed. At the same time, I don't want to have to drive to the store to buy a spoon everytime I do something in game.
Oh, and I don't mind if everyone around me gets to enjoy the parts of the game I enjoy, too. ICC-buff? Fantastic idea. Let everyone see the content, and good for them, you know?
Cyanea Jun 30th 2010 12:31AM
You know...I've been playing this game for a good two years. I thought I enjoyed questlines like the ones you describe. I really honestly thought I did. I thought they were the best part about levelling in the old world.
I levelled with a friend and we didn't have the luxury of RaF. It was the first time I went through the old world in about a year. We went through a good portion of the zones that I went through levelling my first few characters, and the excitement at going through those old questlines faded very, VERY quickly. For every awesome quest that we did that I got to experience again, there were ten absolute bullshit quests. Remember the quest chain in STV that has you run all the way up to old DALARAN just to talk to some guy? (That's fun as Alliance, by the way seeing as the nearest flight point is still a 10-minute mount ride away) Or how about the fact that in some zones, there were never really enough quests to level fully and you had to bounce between three or four zones doing one or two yellow/orange level quest in each before going to another one? (Horde 30s and Alliance 40s come to mind) What about the dozens of quest chains that have you killing X mobs, but you have to fight off 2-3 of Mob Y everytime you killed Mob X...only to be given a quest to go and kill Mob Y next? (Fucking harpies in Stonetalon, man...) Or quests that had you run to zones on the other side of the continent to fight mobs 5-10 levels above you? (A Horde quest in Feralas comes to mind among others). My personal favorites were the quest chains that had you fight your way into a cave or a castle or something, take something, fight your way back out, and then get sent BACK in for the next one in the chain (that troll place in Hinterlands is the worst offender).
But once you get to Outland, things improve dramatically. Northrend moreso. Blizz has learned a LOT about writing and designing quests from the earliest days of vanilla, and I'm eager to see them put that to the vanilla zones. You claim that changing the quests in the old world will strip it of its epicness? Are you trying to say that Northrend doesn't have it's own epicness? The Alliance chain in Borean where you help out Tharassian? Helping the gods in Zul'drak? The Wrathgate? Can you imagine questchains like that in the old world? I think between WoW at launch and Wrath of the Lich King, Blizzard learned that they didn't need to force players to travel a lot, creating a sense of a wide-wide world to create that sense of epicness. I think they realized they can do it with things like storylines, with cutscenes, with phasing, and with videos. They don't need to resort to bullshit like having you travel to other continents just to continue the chain.
Nobody likes change. I levelled that character through the Plaguelands with my friend and I realized with a twinge of sadness that it's likely going to be the last time that I'll ever do the Cauldron quests, or the questchain for Tirion in EPL or the Uther quests. The Plaguelands are my favorite two zones in the old world, and seeing some of the changes Blizz has in store has me worried. But them changing those zones aren't going to take away the memories of doing the quests, like ninjaing my way through undead to do a cauldron quest six levels above me or trying to sneak into Andorhal's inn to get that book without grabbing Araj and his contingent. And as much as I want to see those quests stay in the game forever, I realize that I've done them at least six or seven times by now and as much as I love them...it's time for some new stuff.
N-train Jun 30th 2010 1:02AM
I think this is a case (referring back to a Breakfast Topic a couple days ago) where Blizzard simply can't please everyone.
Not everyone likes to explore and get immersed, and now Blizzard is simply giving the people who do not want that kind of experience the option to get out of it. I spent hours flying around Storm Peaks after leveling there cause I thought it looked so cool, and just because the questlines are linear and take less travel to complete doesn't stop you from exploring to your heart's content, you just simply won't be required by the game to do so.
Also, as we all look at things like the auto-complete function and the smaller raids, one has to remember to do so with a new perspective, cause that's exactly what they're trying to accomplish in Cata. The "kill x mobs" quests are in sharp decline, and quests like the Wrathgate and with vehicles and with phasing are going to be much more popular in Cata.
In the end, I wouldn't necessarily jump to the conclusion that a change in the game that you dislike is going to be a huge flaw in the game (especially since we don't have a lot of details on these changes yet). Plenty of people don't see any loss in their enjoyment with an auto-complete feature, and in the end, Blizzard has to make a call knowing someone is going to walk away unhappy.
Possum Jun 30th 2010 3:22AM
I'm one for the preferring not to be on railroad tracks vote.
whoops Jun 30th 2010 3:28AM
All of these changes share a common theme. The dungeon finder and the increasingly linear dungeon and raid designs are the two most defining ones currently in-game.
All of these changes make WoW a more entertaining game.
They also make WoW a less believable world.
Are they good? Are they bad?
I almost wish that wow was split into two games-
The first being designed first and foremost as a game- player convenience coming before immersion. That means the dungeon finder, "hallway" raids with minimal trash, little to no leveling grind, and perhaps even an option to start at max level!
The second being designed first and foremost as a fantasy world for the players to explore. The best weapons aren't necessarily guarded by the most challenging enemy, and the amount of trash in or layout of a dungeon is determined by what would be realistic to have patrolling around.
This would essentially be splitting WoW into an online shooter with mmo gameplay (game 1) and morrowind (game 2). It's completely unrealistic for so many reasons. Instead, Blizzard has constantly been doing a balancing act between the two extremes. We are simply moving a bit closer towards game 1.
Hih Jun 30th 2010 3:38AM
@Cyan: That quest you're referring to in Feralas? I'm pretty sure I know which one you're referring to. The one where you have to travel to Hinterlands and kill Moonkin? They changed that (along with its precursor that has you fed-ex a head to Orgrimmar and back) so that the chain is all done in zone. Feralas easily became my favorite old world zone to level at that point.
Vodkamartini Jun 30th 2010 4:04AM
On the subject of streamlining quests: It was apparent in Burning Crusade. How many quests did you have going from one end of Outland to another?
I will miss the lack of logic in Vanilla -- "Hey, I'm a Goblin Caravan Driver in the deep jungle of Un'Goro, but can you go kill some dragons in a sunken temple that's been lost for thousands of years on the other side of the world and bring me back some essence of theirs that I can put in a bug spray can so I can kill these stupid walking plants?" (I may be mixing up my Sunken Temple quests here btw, but you get the idea).
As for the TOC hate, yeah, it lacked Ulduar's beauty (I regret never beating that joint, and I love the music in the background) but to me it was the raid version of Violet Hold or CoT: Black Morass. It tried to have its own atmosphere, but it was meh. I have to admit, OS or Vault had more drama.
GrumblyStuff Jun 30th 2010 5:07AM
I'll miss non-flying mount areas. They're the only places that retain some sense of unknown and danger. There's no quick way in or out. You know this as you go hunting mobs and it becomes all too clear when you meet someone of the other faction.
@Cyanea
Yep, those quests sucked. How many times did I scream at the quest giver that I just killed 30 of mob Y doing the previous quest? Just ask my neighbors....
But auto-completing quests? That's as lame as porting to and from dungeons and BGs from any where in the worl- oh, right. Still, it's lame. ...unless they do it by having a quest item drop from mob X or mob Y. Quest text could be your character musing to him/herself.
"Gah! Too many @#$%in' harpies! I don't care if he only wanted revenge on the Scavenging Harpies, I'm gonna take out these Nesting Harpies too! I'll just take back some feathers as proof."
It's not like it's hard to come up with this stuff.
You, adventurer! I seek the mystical tome of MURGGRLRLRLR! You must swim out to the Forbidden Reef and steal it from the Bloodfin Murlocs! This is of the utmost importance! Return at once!
Alright, waddle out to sea. Caster murloc drops a magic item that lets you understand Murgulese. You find the book and read it. Hey, new quest to kill some murlocs before they summon the hydra spirit or something.
This is what I hope they do. "Auto-completing" sounds much more... lame. It sounds like something you could choose to use or not via options menu and entirely artificial to the game world. There's nothing wrong with completing quests in the field but not every quest needs to be like that. Even STV kill-a-thon quests could be done in a reasonable manner.
Whatshisface gives you a list of animals to butcher which seems unnecessary since it has every animal in area on it. Kill tigers, check. Scratch that off (quest completed). Kill bigger tigers, check. Quest completed. Kill even bigger tigers, check. Kill biggest, etc.
Same deal with giving raids a max number of bosses. It's just too rigid. No need to set into stone. Just do wings as necessary and as applicable.
TR Jun 30th 2010 5:17AM
@Cyanea
Oh yeah. You're thinking of Magical Analysis when Revilgaz sends you to Ansirem outside old Dalaran and you have to ride through most of Hillsbrad to get to him. Another perfect example: Morgan Stern in Dustwallow Marsh who sends you to eastern edge of Swamp of Sorrows to get him some crawler legs. Or Archmage Xylem in the ass end of Azshara who sends you to Sunken Temple.
Then there was killing Defias trappers and smugglers while avoiding the Defias pillagers and looters around them while simulataneously avoiding wandering mobs only to have to go back and kill the pillagers and looters next. Anything even remotely near Murlocs!!!
I do miss the exploration though. I know it was supposed to be the point of the location, but Icecrown seems basically empty by comparison, and a lot of the mobs there (like the ranks of elites outside some one of the ICC gates) have no quest tie-ins. :(
Noah Jun 30th 2010 7:49AM
Ok, now I'm back, and I'll try it iterate a few more points from my original post for clarity:
*Northrend quests can be epic
*I won't be quitting any time soon
*I'm not looking for challenge here
*I hate meaningless FedEx quests too
The point I'm trying to make is that when Blizzard tries to use linear storytelling in their world (forcing you to do certain quests in a certain order rather than others), it constricts their world down to a path, rather than a land to explore. There is a balance here which is almost impossible to maintain between storytelling/gameplay/environment. By forcing the environment to one path and removing places to explore that aren't found in the questlines or dungeons that you can get truly lost in, you lose some of the mystery and wonder of the game. This isn't a bad thing from a gameplay or design perspective necessarily, but it does make the game feel less organic. It feels less like the player moving through a world and living in it than it does like a player moving its way through Blizzard's stories (which are still very good) linearly. To me, I'd like Blizzard to create the environment, with good quests that tell stories, but not ones that have you travelling through the zone in a certain way to tell.
otheus Jun 30th 2010 10:42AM
I feel similar hesitancy in letting gameplay affect the lore and milieu of the gameworld, but with autocompleting quests our characters will level-up much more often out in the field killing things, where the gains of a new level are the most noticeable, helpful, and fun.
Cyanea Jun 30th 2010 11:03AM
I honestly think they're going to be mixing and matching zones a lot more than you predict. A human character isn't going to travel in one unbroken chain from Elwynn to Westfall to Darkshire to (I don't know...I haven't played Alliance in a year) and finally end up in Outland. There's likely going to be a massive amount of variation in how you can level two different characters of the same race.
I mean, take for example Alliance chains in Northrend. Say you start at the Fjord at 68. You spend two levels there, before someone gives you a breadcrumb quest to go to Dragonblight. You can go there, OR you can stay at the Fjord. Say you decide to go to Dragonblight. You do the Star's Rest quests which have you go to Wintergarde. There's a long questchain you can do there, or you can take another breadcrumb quest to send you to Grizzly Hills. From Grizzly, you can go to Zul'drak following the Drakuru chain, and then from there you have either Sholazar or Storm Peaks (both lead from Dalaran). That's multiple different options in a continent that only has eight questable zones. The old world has 21 in just Eastern Kingdoms alone, and that includes zones that are likely getting a heavy refit like the Blasted Lands and Alterac Mountains.
Sure, there's going to be no more TRUE exploration by which I mean finishing all of the quests in one zone with no breadcrumb quest to another...but WoW is increasingly becoming a game that requires outside help to play. Questing guides, WoWWiki, and then at eighty: Elitist Jerks. I think Blizz is on the right track in trying to reduce the amount of external research you need to do to play.
Cyanea Jun 30th 2010 11:17AM
@GrumblyStuff
I really highly doubt they're going to be doing autocomplete for EVERY QUESTCHAIN in the game. For one, it'd be pretty difficult to organize and for two, it'd remove the ability for you do to "related side quests" ("Hey adventurer. I need you to go off to this place out in the middle of nowhere and get this book for me! Have fun!" "Psst! I heard you were going to Out of the Way Place. Kill some doods for me while you're there?" "Yeah! Me too?").
I think it's just going to be for the annoying ones...the..."go to the Murloc encampment and get our gear back and then kill 20 murlocs in the camp as the next quest" will likely become: your character gets sent out to rescue some guy's equipment, you kill a murloc in your way and the quest text pops up to say something like, "Murlocs seem to be infesting this small dock. You're positive Joe Schmoe will reward you for thinning their ranks as well." and you get the quest to kill those murlocs as well as rescue the dude's gear.
Blizz is great when it comes to questchains and quest lore. They're not going to blow their reputation abusing this new feature. If they do...well...then I'll eat my hat. But I highly doubt it.
Draniest Jun 30th 2010 12:01AM
Ummmmm.... that's what's in the Master's Glaive. From some of the leaked stuff that was available, that's the exact model of the being-excavated tentacle thing in Darkshore and another one in Twilight Highlands... except, it's not dead, and not giant. Speculation?
Lemons Jun 30th 2010 1:30AM
It's really not an exact replica of the old god corpse out at the master's glaive, but I will say it's very close. It would certainly be set a precedence if an old god's servants were simply mini versions of himself because the servants of Yogg-Saron and C'thun certainly look nothing like their masters.