Cataclysm: Reaching uncrittable

All in all, the stat is kinda boring, as while it does still do nice things after you reach the defense cap of 690 rating (or 540 skill), most people don't bother with it and stack stamina or other avoidance. So Blizzard decided that they're going to get rid of it.
Around BlizzCon 2009, we were told that the crit reduction we formerly got from defense rating was going to be tied into things that were available to all members of each tanking class. Examples used were baking it into Bear Form for druids, Righteous Fury for paladins, Defensive Stance for warriors and Frost Presence (or rather, Blood Presence in Cataclysm) for death knights. That means that if a retribution paladin or arms warrior wanted to tank, all he'd need to do was swap to vaguely appropriate gear (or just over to a sword and shield), pop his respective abilities, and away he'd go. That's not how it appears things went down, though.
With the NDA now lifted, we've been able to see what they've decided. At level 40, you can choose to talent into Survival of the Fittest (three points) for druids, Holy Shield (one point) for paladins, Safeguard (two points) for warriors and Improved Blood Presence (two points) for death knights. The reasoning behind this appears to be one of health pools. With the re-itemization in the expansion, non-tanks will have a higher stamina budget all around and incoming damage even if you are critically hit won't one-/two-shot you.
Quote:
The thing I'm wondering now is what's the stance on tanking now? Is it ONLY for those who are setup specifically to tank?
The thing I'm wondering now is what's the stance on tanking now? Is it ONLY for those who are setup specifically to tank?
With the higher health pools, a non-Protection / Blood / Feral should be able to tank most non-heroic dungeons. You'll get crit, but the crits won't kill you. In fact, that is more reason to keep crit immunity to the dedicated tanks.
So this means that non-heroic dungeons should still be tankable by non-tank-specced players, leaving heroics to those who have put more dedication into that role.
However, one little discrepancy that I've pointed out but glossed over earlier is still about those talents. In order to be crit-immune, you must be level 40 for a paladin, level 46 for a warrior, level 41 for a death knight (yes, I know they start at 55, but 32 talent points worth in the blood tree), or level 37 for a feral druid. This might cause a small bit of trouble while leveling through Scarlet Monastery and honestly doesn't matter in the grand scheme of things when you're dealing with 76 talent points at level 85.
However, perceived differences are still differences in the community. There have been many flame threads from DPS specs comparing how much hit or threat reduction one class gets compared to another or even how many talent points must be spent to do it. I have a feeling that we're going to see the same complaints coming from the tanking community.
One possible solution to this would be letting the first point convey that 6% crit reduction while the other features of that talent scale appropriately points. This would mean that all four tanks would be able to achieve the same needed ability with the same dedication into the talent tree and thus at the same level for druids, paladins and warriors.
As will be repeated over and over for the coming months, we are still in beta, and all of this could drastically change or be baked into other features of the class. The crit reduction could be changed in some way between now and launch, or we could end up listening to the tanking forum bicker back and forth about it while waiting around for the Deathwing raid in patch 4.3 to drop. For now, the magic 8 ball says, "Reply hazy, try again."
World of Warcraft: Cataclysm will destroy Azeroth as we know it. Nothing will be the same. In WoW.com's Guide to Cataclysm, you can find out everything you need to know about WoW's third expansion. From goblins and worgens to mastery and guild changes, it's all there for your cataclysmic enjoyment.Filed under: Druid, Paladin, Warrior, Death Knight






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
GnomishMight Jul 2nd 2010 9:07AM
I'm more offended that warriors are forced to take safeguard, while the other tanks get their uncrittability from otherwise viable talents.
crschmidt Jul 2nd 2010 9:14AM
"The warrior crit immunity is on Imp Defensive Stance in the newest versions of the talent trees." -- http://blue.mmo-champion.com/t/25626046202/prot-warrior-dk-tree-confusion/
Enkylanos Jul 2nd 2010 9:18AM
Based on the latest post I've seen from GC, they've moved warrior crit immunity is to Improved Defensive Stance in the newest versions of the talent trees.
And in the latest Cataclysm trees I've seen, that talent is only 2nd tier, meaning you could have it maxed as low as level 16.
Sleutel Jul 2nd 2010 10:03AM
That was exactly my reaction. IMO, our uncritability should have been tied into Toughness, which is currently half-good (more armor) and half-bad (lowered duration of speed reduction). Instead, they hammered into an already bad talent that no one takes for good reason. So now there are TWO talents that half-suck that we're going to be forced to waste points in.
Here's a thought, Blizzard: Move the uncritability from Safeguard to Toughness and the speed reduction duration from Toughness to Safeguard. Then, Toughness is a great PvE tanking talent and Safeguard is a great PvP one.
iceveiled Jul 2nd 2010 10:28AM
Why be upset? Warrior tanks have always had to work harder for our success. Being the REAL tank class for WoW takes effort.
Natsumi Jul 2nd 2010 11:27AM
If that's the case then you could actually pull off a TG Fury Tank spec, you wouldn't have all the cool gadgets that a Prot Warrior has, but you'd be crit Immune and do some decent threat.
Mr. Tastix Jul 2nd 2010 11:59AM
@iceveiled: That's just ignorant. Okay, Warriors may have started out as the "real" or "pure" tanking classes, but that's not the case anymore. Stop shoving your e-peen down other tanks throats.
I don't agree with how easy the other tanks get it (this is coming from a Paladins perspective, and really, Paladin tanking is easy but boring as hell because of it) but that doesn't make them any less of a tank.
Bløød Jul 2nd 2010 2:37PM
im offended my uncrittable ability as a pally is "baked" into a 10 sec spell i have to continuously spam, miss one click and you get your ass critted off by a boss, that's stupid
should be on righteous fury like they originally said instead of holy shield
Finnicks Jul 2nd 2010 3:18PM
@Blood
That's what Ardent Defender is for. Wiggleroom! :3
Edge Jul 2nd 2010 4:53PM
@Blood Dude they aren't going to make you "turn on" crit immunity, once you take the talent it is always on, the rest of the tooltip refers to just the shield part of the talent.
Bløød Jul 2nd 2010 5:08PM
@edge
well that's a relief if that's true, the tooltip needs better clarification from what mmochamp shows
Arkhill Jul 2nd 2010 6:10PM
@Gnomish-
Safeguard is a great talent if you use it right. Why do you think Warriors were brought to the early H LK 25 kills? Safeguard.
SG is amazing if you want an extra cooldown to apply to the MT if you are a Warrior OT.
@Blood-
From some of the very recent posts on the beta forum, Holy Shield might be a passive ability with a lower block %chance.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=25399740987&sid=2000
(Every post after the original response is a joke)
Grak Jul 5th 2010 11:24AM
"iceveiled
Why be upset? Warrior tanks have always had to work harder for our success. Being the REAL tank class for WoW takes effort."
Truly spoken like someone who has never had to tank as a Bear.
JKWood Jul 6th 2010 2:14PM
@Blood Since when has Blizzard EVER written decent tooltips for Paladins? I spent 20 levels wondering why Holy Wrath never seemed to do any damage in groups...
Sleutel Jul 6th 2010 9:28PM
Why did legitimate commentary based on the posted trees get downrated? If Warrior uncrittability HAD stayed on Safeguard, it would indeed have been fairly terrible.
Dril Jul 2nd 2010 9:08AM
I don't want non-specced, uninformed, and normally-dpsing players tanking for me. Why? Most will fuck it up, and just queue as tank for a quick dungeon. Leave tanking to the people who spec for it and research it, and keep everyone else out. (This is from someone who plays a tank and a healer.)
Luci Jul 2nd 2010 9:14AM
Also a good point.
A lot of ppl don't have the proper respect for the leadership aspect of being a tank. A good tank is also a good leader who has a good understanding of the game and of specific dungeons. Whether its right or wrong, being the one who is first to rush into battle sets the pace for the rest of the group.
Samutz Jul 2nd 2010 9:26AM
@Dril:
Agreed. It's bad enough that I have to put up with mid-level ret paladins or arms/fury warriors trying to tank without shields while I'm leveling my dps and healer alts. I don't want that mentality spreading in to my high level dungeons too.
Dave Jul 2nd 2010 9:49AM
Hear hear
shadowhowl1900 Jul 2nd 2010 9:53AM
as much as you make excellent points, they did make a point that the non-tanks can only do as much as a non-heroic dungeon. and will only last for 5 lvls really. after that, its all heroics and raids