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7-04-2010 @ 3:31AM
After doing a comparison between the current talents and those found on the wowhead cataclysm talent calculator, I found quite a few differences in the fire tree. So much so, in fact, that I might actually consider going Fire for PvP. Yes, I know, that's heresy, but check out what you get when a deep fire build is coupled with the hotness provided by the Arcane tree.Here's what my build looks like now:http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#of0G0G0bhoZ0EffsbcoizrhstIncineration was 2/4/6% and is now 3/6/9%. It's not in my build, but that's a nice improvement.Burning Soul moved to tier 2 and no longer reduces threat.World in Flames was 2/4/6% and is now 3/6/9%. Considering the number of spells this affects, it seems like a good investment.Improved Scorch increases the critical strike chance of Scorch by 30%. Yes, it no longer affects Fireball and Frostfire Bolt by 3% but this spell is cheap, provides the 5% chance for spells to crit debuff and when you want a Hot Streak to proc, this seems like a great way to achieve that.Burning Determination moved to tier 5 and no longer sucks. Instead of making you immune to silence effects for a time it regenerates mana to the tune of 3% of your maximum mana every 5 seconds. Now when I spec for PvP it's all about burst your opponent and who cares about mana so I didn't take this talent in the build, but this could be very powerful and really nice for PvE purposes.Playing With Fire used to increase spell damage by 3% and the spell damage you take by 3%. It now reduces the cooldown of Blast Wave by 6 seconds when you are hit by melee. This seems like a PURE PvP talent (when you PvE you're not supposed to be hit by anything, especially not melee since you usually get 1-shot) and yet it's a prerequisite for Combustion which seems like you'd want to take this even for PvE. Anyhow, I look forward to having Blast Wave in PvP and knocking people into space at the flag spawn location in Eye of the Storm!Critical Mass used to increase crit chance by 6% for all fire spells but now increases damage done by 1/2/3% based upon how many Fire DoTs you have on the target up to a maximum of 9%. Considering the Fire Mastery "Flashburn" and how it makes all fire spells to have a DoT component now, this seems easy to achieve but I think it's more of a PvE talent. Regardless I'd love to hear Mr. Belt pontificate on it.Fire Power used to increase the damage of fire spells by 2/4/6/8/10% but now applies to the DoT affects of your fire spells by a whopping 5/10/15/20/25% and considering that all fire spells have a DoT due to mastery when you go deep fire, this combined with Ignite could make some large numbers appear in your scrolling battle text.Combustion used to increase the chance to crit by 50% and increase this by 10% until you got 3 crits, but now it increases it by 100% for 1 spell, but when that spells hits (and crits and thus procs Ignite and Fire Power, and has a DoT effect due to Mastery) all the DoTs of all the spells currently ticking on the target are grouped into the "Combustion Effect" which then ticks for TEN SECONDS. One crispy Warlock coming up!Pyromaniac used to increase the chance to crit by 3% and allowed 50% mana regen while casting. It now increases spell haste by 5/10/15% if 3 or more targets are taking damage from your Fire DoTs. Does this mean that if you cast Flamestrike on a group of targets and you get at least 3 to be affected by it, you now have 15% haste while the DoT of Flamestrike burns for 8 seconds? If so, check out the Firestarter talent and imagine running into a group and using Blast Wave, getting an instant cast and mana free Flamestrike to make them burn while they are dazed for 6 seconds and thus granting yourself an immediate 15% haste to start destroying everyone. Wow. Maybe I need to reconsider my build?Hot Streak used to require 2 critical strikes IN A ROW, regardless of how much time elapses between those 2, to grant an instant cast pyroblast. It now requires 2 crits WITHIN 4 SECONDS. The new talent also indicates that your Fire spells will no longer trigger Arcane Missiles (which apparently is triggered from time to time by any Mage spells and might be zero or low mana cost?) so we miss out on that. Is that a reason to not take this? Can you cast Fireball then spam Scorch quickly (with its large crit chance) to get a Hot Streak whenever you want?Burnout used to give 10/20/30/40/50% critical strike damage bonus to all spells but now increases the range of Fire Blast by 3/6/9/12/15 yards and causes the new Flame Orb to explode at the end to AoE those within 10 yards for a fairly significant amount. Since I assume Flame Orb will not go through walls, this might be a great spell for confined areas (WSG flag rooms?) when you can almost purposely shoot it into a wall to make it detonate. Increasing the range of Fire Blast greatly increases its usefulness in PvP and makes me want to consider reducing its cooldown and is why I put 3 points into Impact as stuns are very powerful in PvP (I've never spent points in Impact so I don't know if this is a silly thing to do or not).=====For Arcane the Improved Polymorph has already been mentioned and looks like a real PvP winner.Torment the Weak currently gives 4/8/12% damage increase when targets are snared and this has been reduced to 2/4/6% which is a shadow of its former self. Blizzard said this talent was overpowered and that it was a must-have so I'm not surprised they changed it. Is it still worth going for or should those points be invested elsewhere?Presence of Mind. Just wanted to mention that at level 85 you can have a deep Fire build and still get this talent which is wonderful for Pyroblast and Polymorph in PvP.=====Anyhow, I went overboard here and really just wanted to show that there are MANY differences in the Fire talents from what I've seen. I'm really excited about the direction things are going with the Mage and would like to hear others talk about talent builds even though we know all of this can change during the beta.Thanks for reading!
7-04-2010 @ 5:01AM
The reason why Fire isn't considered a PvP spec in WotLK is because it doesn't have the control and survivability of Frost/Arcane or Arcane/Frost. However that's mostly because of Arena. Fire has always been usable in Battlegrounds because a talent spec is less important in Pugs than it is in a specifically orchestrated Arena Team like the ever popular Rogue/Mage/Priest.I looked through your talent tree and made some revisions.http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#obcG0uobhaZfVcbsbIoVuohstMostly I moved around first tier talents that didn't mesh well or are unnecessary.In Arcane you chose Arcane Focus over Improved Missiles. I would argue against that because of the same reasons you've already mentioned about mana. Burst is supposed to be less important in Cataclysm but we don't have much to go on at the moment, so until we know for sure I wouldn't put a lot of importance in mana efficiency. Instead I'm going to put points into Improved Missiles so that if I'm locked out of Fire, or casting Frost Bolt, I will have more powerful missiles.Moving down the tree.Arcane Repulsion, this talent I changed to 1 point, and put 1 point into Focus Magic. Arcane Repulsion will surely be a nice talent but we don't really need more than 2 seconds and 4 yards do we?As for Focus Magic, well extra crit speaks for itself doesn't it? Okay well if it doesn't than consider how useful this is coupled with Hot Streak. Besides the healer you throw this on will love you. Yeah you're fire, you want to stay stuck to a healers hip, might as well give them a reason to like you.Arcane Mind 4 points. This isn't throw away. This isn't throw away because Int = Sp in Cataclysm. So this means more damage, and more mana, and maybe more crit but crit may no longer be effected by Int in Cataclysm so who knows. But we do know you get spellpower from Int.On to fire.Removed Improved Fireball for a few reasons.One, you won't be using fireball.If you're talented with Hot Streak, you're going to want to be using Scorch and Fire Blast for those insane instant Pyroblasts [followed by a second insane POM-PB :) ].Two, a shorter cool down on Fire Blast is just great in PvP. And as said above more ideal for Hot Streak than Fireball.Three Incineration = all crits, all the time. Which is again great for Hot Streak.Okay moving down the list.Removed the points in Burning Soul and Impact, some of those points went to Arcane Mind. Three points went into Critical Mass, because this has better synergy with Hot Streak-PB. I've never once in a pvp situation thought to myself, "Gee I wish I had taken those push back talents." Maybe I'm the only one but I've never seen them useful for PvP.The remainder of the Fire talent points were chosen with utility in mind, and the fact that there just aren't that many opportunities outside of the Warsong Flag room or choke points in Alterac Valley to use things like flame strike. So I avoided those talents as well. I did switch out Fiery Payback in favor of Pyromaniac because that added spell haste, that should theoretically always be up if you're dotting things, will be more useful than a reduced cast time for Pyroblast, especially if the entire talent set up is to take advantage of Hot Streak. It means you can weight your gear around needing less haste. Heck even besides that that 15% haste is just nice and less situational than Fiery Payback.Anyway, that's my two copper. I pass the torch back to you Anonymous.
7-04-2010 @ 8:55AM
I thought they changed POM so it couldn't be used with PB?I was actually attacked by a fire mage in EotS today. It was very strange. I killed it of course because they have no real defense but they can still dish out a bit of damage with the insta pyros.
7-04-2010 @ 12:45PM
Thanks to input from Luke, I've updated my PvP build again:http://cata.wowhead.com/talent#of0G0G0bhoZfVsfsbcoVubGst=====Arcane:The reason I didn't take Improved Missiles is because with this build, you will never cast Arcane Missiles so these 3 points spent here are a waste. If you invest in Hot Streak then it says your Fire spells will no longer trigger Arcane Missiles. If you look at the description of Arcane Missiles you'll see that this spell cannot be cast whenever you want, but has a 30% chance to "activate" when you cast other spells:http://cata.wowhead.com/spell=5143While it's true you might cast a non-Fire spell and get AM to "activate" it seems rare and thus investing these 3 points into Arcane Focus (and I have no idea how often spells are going to be resisted but to put these 3 points in any other place makes no sense) is the only logical thing to do in my opinion.I didn't put a point in Focus Magic because I don't now (for PvP) because I found that the only time I used it was before the battle began -- that ONE time when I could examine those in my group and assign it properly. In the heat of battle when I get resurrected, I buff myself and start killing and there isn't always a worthy friend nearby to receive this spell. It's a great spell, but using it in PvP is something I find difficult so I specced out of it.While I'm a friend of Arcane Mind (my current PvP spec is deep arcane and I have this filled out 5/5) I think its use here is less optimal then investing more deeply in the primary tree which is Fire. I've always felt that talent builds should emphasize a single tree very deeply, then build on that with 11 (Icy Veins) or 21 (PoM) invested in another tree. Anyhow, yes you would gain more int which means a larger mana pool and more spell power and possibly more crit as it does now, but I put these points into Fire.=====Fire:I appreciate your input and agree that Fireball is likely never to be cast and thus I moved the 5 points in the first tier to the others. I love a shorter cooldown on Fire Blast since it is so powerful now (41 yard range now and with Impact procced, a 2 second stun which I am still going with) and more crit on Fire Blast and Scorch is pure win as you said. Not using Fireball provides a stealthier approach since Fire Blast and Scorch instantly hit their target and make it difficult for your opponent to know where it came from (which is why I PvP with Arcane now since Arcane Blast is similarly anonymous). Only when Hot Streak procs or you can PoM pyro do you give your position away.I put my last talent point into Burning Soul because you will take damage while casting and I think this might really help. I invested heavily in my current Arcane PvP build to get a similar benefit and I think it's really beneficial.I'm sticking with Impact since we will be casting Fire Blast a lot (reduced cooldown). A stun is so powerful not only because the person is incapacitated for 2 seconds but because when it lands they might have been mid-cast -- it's like a bonus Counterspell. If a healer is targeted and was about to complete a large heal, this is huge and can turn the tide and lead to their death. It's also really annoying for them and disorienting. Convince me not to invest here if you dare!The problem with Critical Mass is that I think it's primarily a PvE talent. We won't be casting Fireball or Frostfire Bolt in PvP and thus this talent only benefits Pyroblast which is why I'm passing on it.I removed the points in Blazing Speed because a 10% chance to proc is just not enough.I fully invested in Pyromaniac because I'm optimistic I will be able to get DoTs hitting 3 or more targets in PvP. I usually concentrate on one target, but the synergy with the 2 points invested in Firestarter to instantly (and zero mana) put Flamestrike under a group of opponents makes me think I can get this to benefit me much more easily. So much so, that I might even consider casting Blast Wave or Dragon's Breath at NO TARGET just to proc the instant and free Flamestrike to get the 15% haste. Yes, I'm crazy like that.I really like Molten Fury because it seems like your opponent gets so close to death then escapes -- I want my spells to finish you off in PvP right now so getting a 12% damage bonus when they are under 35% health seems like a no-brainer for PvP to me.I removed the points in Fiery Payback because it just doesn't seem so beneficial as I first thought. Reducing damage by 20% is nice but I've pretty much given up survivability with a Fire build (with Arcane I have instant cast invisibility, Prismatic Cloak, improved mana shield, improved resistances and on and on). Making Pyroblast cast faster is nice, but likely not to change the outcome when you're looking death in the face (PoM pyro is called for at this point). And a small chance for your enemy to be disarmed... well, what if your enemy is a spell caster? Not going to make much of a difference.Firestarter is an experiment but it offers synergy with many other Fire talents that I find it very interesting. Time will tell, but I'm keeping it there for now.=====All in all, a good learning experience and thank you for your comments. I think the build got much better. I look forward to anyone's comments to improve a Fire PvP build and hope Mr. Belt might join in with his wisdom now or in a future column.Thanks for reading!
7-05-2010 @ 2:32AM
I think they'll decide to switch Critical Mass and Playing With Fire, though they could decide to unlink them from Combustion altogether, which would be even cooler.As for Combustion itself, it sounds awesome. You get a crit on the target plus Ignite, as you said, but then because of Fire's Mastery, any other spell you cast on the target* gets combined into the Combustion dot... thus clearing space for more Mastery dots! You get a longer 10 second dot, plus another set of dots, more than doubling your dot damage on the target! Sexy.*Does Living Bomb count? If it does assimilate Living Bomb, does that count as a dispel?... would using Combustion cause a Living Bomb explosion on top of everything else? Fear my pyromaniac power!And as for using Fire in PvP, sure, most people don't do it because it isn't as efficient as Arcane or Frost, but people do it even now because of its crazy playstyle. With the changes to Imp Scorch, range on Fire Blast, Flame Orb, and being able to grab Arcane Repulsion... wow. You may see viable Fire builds. Sure, it won't be as efficient as Arcane or Frost even still, but the gap has been narrowed.
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