Breakfast Topic: It's lonely at the top
by Jared Kuester 
Jul 6th 2010 at 8:00AM
Maybe some of you will understand where I'm coming from. I play a fury warrior, my favorite class that fits my playstyle in every way. I like to think of myself as a raging berserker painted in woad and the blood of my enemies. I'm a whirlwind of doom that will fight 'til his last dying breath against insurmountable odds.
But here is the problem that I'm facing: I'm number one in damage done and damage per second on nearly every fight. Now you may be thinking to yourself, "What's your problem? Doesn't that just mean you're doing your job?" Yes, it does -- but it also means that my raiding team isn't doing its job as well as myself. Now don't get me wrong, I've been with this team since I knew what end of the axe to even hold, and I consider all of them to be my friends. But I put in my time, got my gear, did my research and started topping the charts by an alarming amount. I thought that once I would get to this level of the game, I would have to struggle to keep my place among the elite, but that just isn't so. I don't see any of my fellow damage-dealers putting in the same effort that I'm putting in.
Now I'm faced with a decision. Do I stick with my friends and keep trying to motivate them to do better, or do I leave them behind and find myself a new guild with more competitive players? I've thought about this for quite some time and have discussed my feelings with our raid and guild leader, letting them know that I expect more out of my teammates and don't want to settle for "good enough." I think it's too late in the game to be switching guilds now, but if the trend continues come Cataclysm, I may need to find a new place to call home.
What do you think you would do if you were in the same position? Am I justified in expecting more out of my team? Would you ever leave your guild because you didn't feel like your raiding team wasn't meeting its true potential?
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 8)
Mike Jul 6th 2010 8:05AM
The game is, well, a game. A social game, one meant to play to have fun with your friends. You're clearly playing with your friends, and you seem to really enjoy Fury (can't blame you on that one), so it looks like you're having fun. All is good.
Rory Jul 6th 2010 8:46AM
Lets throw in a sports analogy. I like playing baseball with my friends. It's fun. However, they don't work nearly as hard as I do. They obviously don't have the same passion for the "game" that I do. I don't want to have to motivate my friends. Eventually anyone in this situation will stop enjoying the "game" and start looking at other teams who have their same passion. I suggest trying out another raiding guild.
vinniedcleaner Jul 6th 2010 8:55AM
This proves my point about the inane, same old topics.
boohoo... I put out more damage than my team... I wan them to be leet like me.... why don't they pick up the slack..... waaah
Are you having fun? Are you downing content? Are your teammates having fun? Then stop being a control freak and play the game, unless your idea of fun IS being a control freak, then I'd suggest you find a new hobby.
maxthehazy Jul 6th 2010 10:14AM
It appears that I will be making the unpopular comment here, but you should leave. First, you need to get rid of this "but we are friends" mentality. You are a group of people with supposedly similar goals, but it has become apparent to you that this isn't the case (if you did truly have similar goals the other members of your group would be putting out similar dps). There are plenty of hardcore guilds out there who have been bleeding members and would love to have a dedicated member who cares enough to put forth the minimal effort required to be a successful raider. I knew a guy recently who applied to a HC guild one morning, got accepted, server transferred and was raiding ICC hard modes that evening.
There is nothing wrong with setting your raiding goals and expecting to meet them. If your "friends" are unwilling to spend the five minutes that it takes to make sure they have the right spec and rotation to get their dps up to your level, there is nothing wrong with saying "I am going to leave and raid with people who put forth the same effort that I do." If these people are actually your "friends" they will support you and you will still get to spend time with them and run 5 mans together and do all that happy funtime stuff you always did... or you won't but at least then you would know how much they truly cared.
Mr. Tastix Jul 6th 2010 10:18AM
@maxthehazy: Why do you stuck quotes around the term "friends"? Just because they don't have fun being the best like Mr. Fury Warrior up here doesn't mean they're any less of his friends.
I've been in many guilds where the players were not as good or I or didn't have similar mindsets. So what? They still had fun, they played the way they wanted to and I respect that. I left those guilds, but I still consider them my friends.
Eyhk Jul 6th 2010 10:42AM
@vinniedcleaner
Just because you want a more competitive environment doesn't mean you are whining or being a control freak. It seems that his fellow raiders have exactly the mentality that you describe, as long as we are having fun, so what? So what if I don't buff and flask or research my specs, rotation and gear? So what if I'm doing less than optimal dps or stand in fires. So what if I auto-attack Saurfang and go for a smoke break? I'm having fun. To some people, that may be fun enough. To others, it may seem lazy and not much fun at all. To each his own. Don't judge because you don't have the will to "step your game up".
IMO it would be best to start researching other guilds to find people that have the same passion you have. You can always keep an alt in the guild to keep in touch or run raids with them when you aren't running on your main. Or you can stay in your guild with your friends, but start a separate 10 man more hand-picked to your liking to try out hard modes or LK. With Cataclysm already in closed-beta, its not going to be long till this stuff is obsolete. Have fun in the mean time, but make sure your long term goal will also be met without burning any bridges.
joshbuddha Jul 6th 2010 11:10AM
That is such a loaded question and has many variables that aren't really addressed...
Are you wiping repeatedly on content due to bosses enraging? Are you stuck farming normal modes for loots, because the rest of your guild doesn't want to put the work into progress? Or are you breezing through the content you are doing, but you are just winning in damage.
For an example my guild is 9/12 Heroic ICC25 and 11/12 heroic 10, our fury warrior is in the top 5 on most fights (top 3 since he got full on Shadowmourne) but our affliction warlock and arcane mage tend to consistently top damage, along with one of our hunters. However the top 10 in dps may fluctuate fight to fight with about a 750 dps difference between 1-10 then it falls off from 11 down to the tanks. Are you doing so much more damage than the rest of your team that the difference is abhorrent like several thousand dps above?
Do they use consumables? Are they slacking in not flasking, eating food buffs, or using pots for dps increases?
If refusing to use consumables for raiding is an issue then you may need to find a more serious guild. If the dps difference in the top and the next few down is such a crazy number, then you may need to move on. If you are stuck raiding content that is beneath you to farm for badges and normal gear because your guild doesn't feel like working on hard modes you may need to move on. If you feel like the game loses its fun because you are stuck doing content beneath you or carrying your guild then you get more apathetic and logging on feels like a chore, and you need to find a place you fit in better.
If you are just winning dps but your guild is succeeding at hard content, bringing their consumables, and overall work together and you have fun raiding with them, stop complaining help your friends guide them to places which can help them shore up their rotations, make better gem and gearing choices (cause high end players know how ilvl doesn't always mean the best piece), and maybe learn when to use their dps cooldowns. Half of this game is learning to manage cooldowns and use keybinds and macros, and maybe all they need is a shove in the right direction. Lrn2play nub doesn't help anyone, and never has just leads to bitter recrimination and a digression into insults. However, constructive criticism can cause people to improve if they are willing to take it.
Hoof Jul 6th 2010 11:57AM
I'm not sure how you can claim he's having fun.
Let's look at the facts.
The author is already curious about leaving the guild. That right there is all the reason he should need to know he should go through with it.
He still considers them his friends, what happens when Cataclysm rolls around and he continues to feel as if everyone is not as dedicated to playing well as he is? Well he start resenting them? Will he stop logging on entirely simply to avoid the problem? While he still considers them to be his friends is the best time to leave. Those that are truly his friends will understand his desire for more and wish him well, no bridges need be burned over this.
Rory is correct in my opinion, 100% correct. The author likes playing flag football with his friends, but he feels he's good enough to play in the NFL. When he plays with his friends he may have fun for now, but it's boring not having any competition. He wants more. His friends should support him.
Stevey Jul 6th 2010 11:58AM
You arnt really going to have to make a decision if any of your officers / guild leaders see this Breakfast Topic /gkick!
Shammytime Jul 6th 2010 1:37PM
@Stevey
If his guild leader/officers saw this post hopefully they would direct their attention to the comments and not solely the topic presented. By doing so they would see the suggestions to the author about his decision. These comments may enlighten the officers to other situations that may improve the raiding performance of the guild without the author having to make much more if any further active attempt to help improve his fellow raiders performance.
To the actual topic expecting more out of others is not in itself a bad thing but first the situations of every single person must be understood before it can decided if they are giving their all or not.
Rai Jul 6th 2010 8:07AM
If I would you, I would devote some time to trying to make your team as awesome as you.
matthewggrammer Jul 6th 2010 5:19PM
"Do I stick with my friends and keep trying to motivate them to do better, or do I leave them behind and find myself a new guild with more competitive players?"
It's safe to assume that your guildies don't play, research, and write about this game anywhere near as much as yourself. Stick with your friends, enjoy the top of the meter, and when you have extra time and a receptive player, research how to increase his/her DPS.
But stay with your friends.
Anwin Jul 6th 2010 12:38PM
I agree with this entirely, along with most of the commenters thus far. The biggest thing that a guild needs is teamwork and cooperation, which you should have plenty of in a guild of such close friends. Your guild-mates may not be as geared or skilled as you are, but they're still going to give you the best experiences. If you were to jump ship to a new guild, not only do you risk alienating your current guild-mates/friends, but you risk finding yourself stuck in a guild with people who you just don't "click" with as well.
In WoW, a lot of the game's best moments are enhanced when you're witnessing those moments with friends.
macster Jul 6th 2010 8:08AM
I guess the key question is - "are the bosses going down?". While I see the point about the others trailing your DPS, there's little motivation for them to be pushing themselves any more as long the shinies are dropping. PvE is about beating the game, not other players.
theRaptor Jul 6th 2010 8:23AM
If you are doing normal modes the bosses go down unless the raid is doing something horribly wrong. A blues only guild has cleared all of Ulduar and ToC and is like 6/12 into ICC last I checked. Wrath raiding doesn't require gear just the ability to follow dance steps.
So the only way many of us who aren't in hardmode guilds can stop DPS being boring is to push it and be competitive. The only way to really improve at something is to compete with people of similar skills.
Shnitzki Jul 6th 2010 8:47AM
Raptor if its the same one that I have been following they are actually 11/12 and have breached Phase 3 for Lich several times.
theRaptor Jul 6th 2010 8:56AM
I haven't checked on them in a while. I need to bookmark it so I can link it when my guildies cry about how we need to farm some more or wait for the ICC buff to increase. >.>
Eyhk Jul 6th 2010 10:54AM
The people in the guild you talk about are EXTREMELY competitive, do tons of research to eek as much performance from their blue-clad toons as humanly possible, and have a lot of passion for the game. The author explains that he did some research and got some gear and without much trouble topped the dps "by an alarming amount" meaning that the others aren't doing much at all.
The REAL question would be "Are you progressing?"
The same 7 bosses can be downed easily every week, but if you are stagnant, its not fun any more, which seems to be the case with the author.
fjwest Jul 6th 2010 8:09AM
I don't know the numbers involved or your equipment level, but warriors are very much top damage dealers when fully decked out in icc 25 hc gear.
Whilst other classes are capable of performing well, you should always be near number one. Along with fire mages of course.
Saying this, you may be lesser geared and then I'd say it's common in alot of guilds, including my own. It just comes down to why do you enjoy the game, the people? the competition? the numbers?
If you are still killing the bosses what does it matter, if you're not - then the question should be something else.
sinthar Jul 6th 2010 8:50AM
spoken like a true fire mage :)