Breakfast Topic: The illusion of choice
by Rich Maloy 
Jul 15th 2010 at 8:00AM
My shaman, Stoneybaby, hasn't respecced in ... I don't even know when, but I'm sure it's been many months. I have my raiding spec, in which I could move one or two points around -- should I take 2/3 Improved Shields or 3/3 Improved Shields? Ultimately, it makes little difference; I picked my raiding spec and my PvP spec, and I go forth with those until the game requires a change. I don't need a lot of choice because I won't use it.
On the other hand, my druid is a bit different. He's specced balance for AoE farming Chunk o' Mammoth (my wolves need their Spiced Mammoth Treats!) and feral bear for tanking alt raids. For raids, I either tank or I tank -- take your pick. He's mostly useless as DPS in raids because he doesn't have the proper hit, mana regen or focused damage talents; he's built to kill a dozen mobs at once out in the field. I like the choice so I can specialize in AoE farming.
In the case of my shaman, I really don't need that one- or two-point customization, and so lamenting the loss of deep, complex talent trees is just the loss of choice for the sake of choice. For my druid, I really do want and use the complexity of the current specs. Overall though, I think the slimmed-down trees will enrich the game without dumbing it down.
What about you? Do you really want deep choice in spec customization, or are you just lamenting the loss of the illusion of choice?
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Reader Comments (Page 1 of 6)
Angidget Jul 15th 2010 8:07AM
I'm reserving judgment. I like the idea of less complicated. But I want to be sure that there is some room for individualism within a given tree. And that remains to be seen.
thepiratester Jul 15th 2010 8:32AM
After playing around with the talent tress for all my toons I really like this change ( for most of my toons). Lets face it, every build is posted and ppl use them. So it’s not like ppl will be any less of an individual as they already are now. This change makes life easier for managing multiple toons and it’s streamlined.
What I dont like is the whole you have to dps to get mana back for my Shamy..that’s going to be a pain in the $%#!
- I heal cause I like to heal, when I want to dps I go in as dps - Duel spec is a wonderful add..I look forward to tri-spec!!! **** plz,plz,plz blizz =) ***
Aruhgulah Jul 15th 2010 9:00AM
Well, *what* individualism? Every spec is cookie-cutter; you're either specced a certain way or you lose raid/PVP abilities. There's no real choice.
Rubitard Jul 15th 2010 10:01AM
I think looking for individualism in a talent tree, particularly with all the other changes that are going into Cata, may be a fruitless effort. There will be other opportunities to distinguish yourself in conjunctions with the talent specs, such as the myriad new race/class combinations, etc.
Puntable Jul 15th 2010 10:06AM
"Everybody already has a cookie-cutter spec". People keep saying this but I'm sure it's not true. "Every RAIDER has a cookie-cutter spec" is what they want to say. I have 4 max-level characters that I play regularly, one of which is a "hard-core" raider. The other three do random dungeons and an occasional VoA or weekly-quest raid. None of them have a cookie-cutter spec. For example my Shaman healer is specced and glyphed for Fire Nova. It's not optimal for raiding but it sure as heck is more fun in dungeons.
Anon Jul 15th 2010 10:32AM
I hesitate to use the term but if they've gone this far to idiot-proof specs, why don't they just go all the way?
Unlock spells as you level. At 10, you choose your first spec. You're stuck with that unless you pay a modest fee. At 30 and 50 (numbers chosen because they seemed like convenient gaps between mounts), you may pick up a second and third spec.
Yeah, it does remove a lot of the RPG from MMORPG but the only thing that appears to be sacred is the idea of talent trees. Everything else is baked in. Why not whole specs?
Elmouth Jul 15th 2010 11:08AM
Its not so much the fact that we want more freedom with talents is the fact Blizzard promised more freedom with talents.
But then again, its not the first time they promised something only to "forget" about it later on.
There's no point to slimming down the trees. They're the exact same thing.
jrb Jul 16th 2010 9:07AM
when did blizzard promise freedom with talents. i don't remember it. I remember them saying they would be getting rid of the dull, boring, uninteresting, and flat stat modifying talents that get in the way of where you are now, and that really cool talent you get at..40...60.. when they said this everyone rejoiced, for what they said sounded great
now we're seeing this ideology being implemented people are grasping what it actually meant, and complaining... many of whom haven't played it, aren't running the beta, haven't seen how mastery affects your ability to do perform your class-role, and most of all aren't considering the talent system, and how complex and confusing it was to a new player.
the changes blizzard are introducing will have no affect on a player that is already versed with a class, and the talents it had pre-cata, so really. so, what is the problem?
klink-o Jul 15th 2010 8:10AM
The only thing I'm not a fan of with the new system is the whole 'must spend 31 or more points in one tree' thing. Sure it simplifies balancing and hopefully works towards they're goal of simplifying the leveling process, but I fear we'll lose a lot of the specialty builds people come up with for soloing old content or accomplishing other such feats.
Krinkle Jul 15th 2010 8:15AM
I fear the same thing as well. On my warrior I have a prot spec for tanking and a prot/fury hybrid spec for solo-ing old content. The hybrid spec depends on going into fury for Bloodthirst and going into prot for survival talents. That spec probably won't be usable in Cataclysm.
zubbiefish Jul 15th 2010 8:34AM
I'm with you here. 31 points before we can start spreading them around?
It's probably the best way to go but I sure will miss the option. Even if I never, ever, exercised the option to hybrid spec my way to max level, it would be nice to leave the option. The rest of the plan I'm all for.
Abbadon Jul 15th 2010 9:08AM
What I'm surprised they didn't do in the first place is this:
Instead of requiring you to pick a specialization at lv 10, make specialization an OPTION. If you choose to specialize, you get the passive bonus(es) of that tree and are required to follow the rules as they are now. However, if you choose not to specialize, you can put points where ever you please at the cost of not receiving any of the passive bonuses.
Very simple... There's a reward for specializing and the loss of such if one chooses a hybrid spec. But the important thing is that there's a CHOICE! It's still very early in the Beta, and I'm guessing we'll see something along these lines in the end.
PistolPeet Jul 15th 2010 10:53AM
@Abbadon
I think that's a fantastic idea. It has all the benefits of the current system, plus all the benefits of the new system and none of the drawbacks of either.
Lars Petersson Jul 15th 2010 11:50AM
@Abbadon:
That would be a fantastic idea.
My builds at 80 tend to be copied from either WoWwiki (In the past) or wowpopular.com (these days)...
But while levelling I tend to play around with my talents as some that are great for levelling are, IMO, useless for raiding (Frozen Power for example http://www.wowhead.com/spell=63373)
My first shammy to 80 levelled up with a hybrid elemental/Enhancement spec which worked great while levelling but would obviously be laughed at if I tried to raid with it...
Zanathos Jul 15th 2010 4:35PM
I'm not sure the choice to not specialize is really something that needs to be offered. Without specialization bonuses, spread out talent points are going to be less desirable than ever. The new system has some great positives. You get defining abilities and bonuses early in your character's life, which will presumably make playing more fun and hopefully teach class mechanics earlier. And it'll keep new players who don't really know what they're doing from spreading their points all over and unknowingly gimping themselves.
On the downside, you take away the choice to make inferior specs.
Glaras Jul 15th 2010 6:02PM
First, by the time you're soloing old content, you'll have over 31 points to spend, so you'll be able to reach that cutoff right away. Ditto for those of us who will be leveling from 80 to 85. We'll already have 38 points, so we can start picking talents from other trees right away (after dropping 31 points in your desired tree, of course).
As far as actually doing the extreme soling in Cat? Consider this a challenge. Can you actually do it anymore?
Who will be first to solo old instances under the new system? You, perhaps?
twelve Jul 15th 2010 8:12AM
Ghostcrawler promised me Freedom of Choice.
AnotherSivil Jul 15th 2010 8:36AM
http://www.playlist.com/searchbeta/tracks#freedom%20of%20choice/all/1
Vladeon Jul 15th 2010 8:37AM
You sure it wasn't Freedom From Choice?
Boz Jul 15th 2010 9:11AM
[Ghostcrawler]: Look, you've got it all wrong! You don't need to follow me, you don't need to follow anybody: You've got to think for yourselves; you are all individuals.
[Gamers] (in unison): Yes, we are all individuals.