Cataclysm Beta: Hunter talent overhaul

As promised, Blizzard has completed a massive overhaul of the talent system in the Cataclysm beta. It's a change of biblical proportions: only 31 points to the bottom of the trees, no more Mortal Shots, no more Hawk Eye, Explosive Shot for free at level 10, dogs and cats living together ... mass hysteria!
A lot of what we're seeing right now looks a little bit crude. We have vastly different numbers of talents in different trees as well as some truly odd choices of what talents remain and which ones were removed. Suffice it to say (as we always say), this is just the beta; this is a first implementation of the new talent system, and expect many changes moving forward.
Join me after the cut for a complete look at what the talent system overhaul is currently doing for hunters in the beta.
Talent specialization benefits
At level 10 when you get your first talent point, you'll be asked to specialize in one tree. Thereafter, you can only put talent points into your specialization tree until you get to the very bottom of the tree (which you'll reach at level 70). However, once you choose your tree, you'll get a free, super-awesome ability right there at level 10. In concept, this should be something that will really give you the feel of your tree and will scale with your level appropriately.
- All Trees Bonus hit chance (3% at lvl 80) and pushback reduction (70% at level 80)
- Beast Mastery Intimidation
- Marksman Aimed Shot
- Survival Explosive Shot
Implementation is somewhat hit and miss
While I was very excited about this idea -- giving spec-defining abilities to hunters at level 10 -- I'm a bit disappointed in the current implementation.
The reason I was so excited about this change is I felt that it would be a very good tool for teaching new hunters who are just leveling about their tree and class. Currently, the leveling system does not do a very good job of teaching hunters how to play their spec. Take a look at what your rotation is at level 80. The cornerstones of those rotations for MM and SV are not available until very high levels, so throughout the learning process the hunter is not given the most important tools they'll need when they reach the end game. They're not being taught how to play their spec; they're being taught something else, some half-formed rotations that they'll have to unlearn when they get to the end game.
Don't get me wrong: We're making big improvements on the hunter education already in Cataclysm. Pets are there from level 1. Steady Shot is there at level 3, which is a massive improvement. But what about the defining shots?
Blizzard has already identified the signature abilities of each spec in Cataclysm: Explosive Shot for SV, Chimera Shot for MM and Kill Command for BM. Let's try to focus on those! Let's take a look at the blueprint for each hunter spec at level 85 and then see how the leveling process trains them to do well at that.
For SV, Explosive Shot is spot on the money. We're there. Get them used to this shot for a while, then around level 30, they can buy their way into Lock & Load, then T.N.T. at 40. Now they're really getting used to the cornerstone of the SV rotation. SV is an example of fantastic implementation of the new system.
But Aimed Shot for MM? The MM Cataclysm rotation is all about refreshing Serpent Sting with Chimera Shot. With the shorter duration of Serpent Sting and the need to have focus set aside for the second Chimera Shot becomes available, this is a skill that we need teach upcoming MM hunters. As it is now this defining ability, their signature shot, will not be available to them until level 70.
BM is a tough call, I'll admit that, since the signature ability isn't specific to the BM tree. BM's Cataclysm rotation, as we discussed, is going to be all about converting Frenzy stacks into haste via Focus Fire and Kill Command. All of these abilities are (again) available fairly high up in the tree, so the leveling BM hunter will get to them on his own soon enough. Intimidation is certainly a good leveling talent for soloing, but I think every BM hunter would agree that Bestial Wrath feels more like a defining ability of the BM hunter. Let them get their big red pet on! Let them show off their pet out of the gate. However, this is really a matter of cool factor and not a matter of improving the intuitive learning experience, as it is with MM.
The talents
You can see the new hunter talent trees over at MMO-Champion.
Blizzard shared a couple of design goals with us regarding the talent system overhaul. The designers want to simplify the talent trees, to remove the boring talents that no one ever takes and also to remove many of the passive and must-have talents. They also wanted talents to be cooler and more desirable in general, so you aren't getting a new talent point and putting it in another 1% increase to crit, for example. Of course, we also have the earlier stated goal of giving some more choice in talents -- so there isn't necessarily a cookie-cutter build for each spec down to the very last talent point.
I think the perfect world implementation would provoke a mental conversation like this:
In a perfect implementation, you have more totally awesome talents that you want than you have talent points, and the advantage of those talents can't be boiled down into a mathematical formula to give you the right answer for every situation. This means that the talents would inherently have to be somewhat situational. A perfect example is the current Hawk Eye talent. The extra range is sweet, but no one takes it because there are mathematically superior DPS options. But what if our choice was between Hawk Eye and a talent that boosted our stamina? Now both are useful in different ways, but you can't mathematically prove which is best. In fact, the best choice probably depends on your individual play style -- a perfect situation.Hmm ... this talent is really cool!
Oh, but so is this one. I can see that being awesome in this situation I often find myself in.
Whoa! But look at that one -- that is awesomesauce! I must have it too!
Oh god, I can only get one of them! They're all so good ... I want them all. I can't decide between the shiny hunter goodness! Damn you, Ghostcrawler!
Unfortunately, I think the first draft of the hunter talent trees provoked a mental conversation more like this one:
I'm particularly surprised to see talents like Dazzled Prey still in there, as that certainly must qualify as one of those talents that no one ever took. Furthermore, our Hawk Eye range extension talent was removed -- if I have to take a talent that isn't a flat DPS advantage, that is a fantastic one. I'm also saddened that we don't see a stamina boost options anymore -- with mana mattering for our healers, that could be a legitimate choice for a non-DPS talent.Eh, they left that one in?
Blah, I suppose that maybe, sometime, that talent could possibly useful.
Whatever, I'll just toss the points wherever so I can get down to something that I might actually care about.
But again, this is just the very first implementation of the new talent system, and we can hope that these improve.
Did our DPS go down due to this change?
This question is a tough one to answer because of the mastery system. Previous to this beta patch, the mastery system was in effect. As far as I can tell despite constantly getting booted with "World Server Down" notices, the mastery system is not in effect now. So in addition to the talent changes, we're also looking at all that mastery goodness having temporarily gone away.
In target dummy tests, hunter DPS is vastly lower than it was before the change. Every shot is doing less damage, and the loss of the Mortal Shots talent makes our crit damage plummet. No longer will Aimed Shot one-shot everything in its path. I went from Aimed Shot crits averaging 24k on the dummy before the patch to averaging 16k now (level 80).
However, despite the loss of well over 1,000 DPS on the target dummy, a level 80 hunter in the same endgame Wrath gear is still doing more DPS in the Cataclysm beta than in Wrath. Our DPS is still going up, even without mastery implemented.
As a final note, I should point out that the namesake of this column you're reading, Scatter Shot, is no longer a talent. Is is now a base ability trainable by all hunters.
Scattered Shots is the WoW.com column dedicated to helping you learn everything it takes to be a hunter. See the Scattered Shots Resource Guide for a full listing of vital and entertaining hunter guides, including how to improve your heroic DPS, understand the impact of skill vs. gear, get started with Beast Mastery 101 and Marksman 101 and even solo bosses with some extreme soloing.
Filed under: Hunter, (Hunter) Scattered Shots






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Drakkenfyre Jul 15th 2010 1:12PM
Ban this idiot. He's posting that personal info on multiple stories just to get that guy harrassed.
Joshua Jul 15th 2010 1:08PM
Is it me, or are level 19 hunters going to hurt even more? I just hope level 10 Penance can counter that Explosive shot.
Ebylon Jul 15th 2010 1:08PM
Major props for channeling Bill Murray in the first paragraph.
Ronin Jul 16th 2010 10:05AM
Yes, because that's such a new, cool, underused meme... (I'm not criticizing Brian for using it, just seems funny to actually praise him for it).
Codie Jul 15th 2010 1:10PM
Frost, do you think because of the Tier 2 "Hunter vs. Wild" talent, we will be seeing MM and BM builds start to spec into that? Or do you think it might be nerfed because of the huge stamina increase in Cataclysm?
thebitterfig Jul 15th 2010 2:37PM
Right now, 8 points in SV looks pretty damn mandatory for BM. It seems like such a major amount of attack power, combined with 30% buff to serpent sting's damage and 3% flat damage boost (imp Serpent Sting seems stronger than imp tracking, imho). The only problem is that BM is a very bloated tree right now, and you don't get 10 free points to drop into other trees, which is what you'd need for HvsW and GftT to be maxed.
if they drop Ferocious Inspiration down to 1 point like arcane mages have, it'll free up the two points a BM hunter would need in order to get both talents. Of course, this presumes that both Kindred Spirits (10 increased max focus) and Invigoration (reverse GftT - pet autoattack crits give you focus) are mandatory. I can't see Invigoration being optional, but Kindred Spirits might be of limited PvE viability. It also looks like it'll be hard to pick up Animal Handler for the 10% Kill Command crit chance, and still get the other talents you might want...
The hunter trees really need work, IMHO.
Frostheim Jul 15th 2010 4:20PM
I don't know -- right now the top of the MM tree looks huge for BM. Keep in mind that the BM rotation is all about building up those Frenzy stacks, which is limited by your pet's ability to use it's focus dump attack.
Getting more focus (or free attacks with sic 'em) for your pet is vital. The higher you can build up those frenzy stacks, the more haste you are going to be able to get when you use Focus Fire. And right now Bestial Discipline is the only pet focus improvement you can get in the BM tree. Depending on how coefficients and everything wash out at the end of beta, I could see GftT and Sic 'Em considered must-have talents for BM builds.
Jack Spicer Jul 15th 2010 1:12PM
Intimidation at least will be very useful for low level hunters.
Joshua Jul 15th 2010 1:13PM
Agreed. I dropped my hunter at 73, didn't like it enough. But with all the changes I think I'll start fresh with a new one, and Intimidation is sure to help. Could probably tank low level dungeons with it even. Not that you'd need to with Paladins getting Avengers Shield at level 10.
Qot Jul 15th 2010 2:17PM
It's not bad for leveling, but I'm surprised they didn't put Beast Mastery in there. As for exotic pet training, I'm not sure about the other guys or changes that might happen, but you run into Chimeras in the low 20s if you're Horde (Stonetalon). I'm sure they could throw a few of the other types into the new zones or revamped areas of the old zones. Plus, if you got your bonus pet talents early, that would give BM a Beast Mastery feel from the start.
Intimidation is on a wicked long cooldown for a "defining" ability and it's one of the few defining abilities that would never be used in a raid setting (or at least I've never seen it used).
Dehvi Jul 15th 2010 11:05PM
There wouldn't be much point in adding the Beast Mastery in there, considering the staple of that talent is the exotic beasts you can train. You won't see those until Northrend though. Same with the extra talent points... it doesn't seem like it would be appropriate to give BM Hunters and instant 4 talent points for their pet.
As for having Intimidation being their signature ability instead of Kill Command, I think it makes perfect sense. Remember, these are the first things you get in your chosen tree, and their purpose is to teach you about how to handle your class. Blizzard has stated in many previous posts that their intention for the BM spec is to make using pet abilities more important to playing their class. Intimidation does a great job of that, especially for leveling Hunters. Kill Command just increases their DPS, it doesn't actually teach them to utilize their pets in situational settings.
Ronin Jul 16th 2010 10:15AM
I DIS-agree. I can count on one hand the number of times I needed intimidation while leveling my BM Hunter. Unless something changes to where it's needed more often, it seems bizarre to make _that_ our defining ability. And when not soloing, it becomes even less useful. About the only real need for it is in PvP.
Bestial Wrath would be much more helpful, as well as more iconic.
I'm also boggled by the comment, "You won't see those (exotic beasts) until Northrend though". Unless exotics disappear from Eastern Kingdoms and Kalimdor, that just isn't true. Why, you can get a Core Hound at level 12!
thecamohunter Jul 15th 2010 1:18PM
ya i think hunters are seriously getting beyond the nerf hammer because to get to the bottom of your tree for MM you have to take stuff that wont at all increase damage unless in pvp. and by the time you have the good stuff from surv you ran out of points so i dont know we'll have to see how this'll go over
Prances in Underpantss Jul 16th 2010 7:07AM
I'm glad I wasn't the only one unimpressed by the new MM tree. It just seems like there's nothing great there. Hopefully this changes, because I really like MM.
Also, very disappointed they took away Hawk Eye. I like it for pvp because I could hit from further away than other ranged attackers.
Donk Jul 15th 2010 1:26PM
BRK!
Pls make sure we dont suck in Cataclysm! ;)
We need very high dmg, (as all dps-only classes do).
Anthony Jul 15th 2010 1:29PM
When someone asks if Frost is a god, you say YES!
(Ghostbusters refs ftw.)
Thanks, Frost, for the thoughtful analysis as always.
mike Jul 15th 2010 1:38PM
Now I am wondering how will our soloing capabilities be? I love going into old instances and raids just to see what I can kill, and how far I can get
Gordal Jul 15th 2010 1:39PM
So since Hawk Eye was removed as a talent, will we get any range extension at all?
Gol Jul 15th 2010 1:42PM
My gut says that it will be a while b4 I am raiding in cata. I am going to have to learn my class from scratch-- am I alone in imagining hunterless raids for a while while people are off figuring this stuff out?
I am sure it will be fun, being a nub again, in the class that I have grown into- and that I play very much by 'feel'. I love the fluidity of current hunter game play. I just hope the changes do not make hunter play feel too mechanical.
I like running around, blowing stuff up, with my pet functioning like an extension of my toon.
wutsconflag Jul 15th 2010 1:57PM
Aimed Shot? Does that mean it's MM only, then? That doesn't even begin to make sense. Like Brian Wood, I agree that Chimera Shot should be the signature shot for MM.
O.o