Shifting Perspectives: Pulling 101: Assessing the group

For a long time, I've been kicking an article around on the art of the 5-man pull. Knowing how and when to pull is arguably the foundation of a smooth dungeon run, and it's certainly among the first skills that any tank needs to develop. While a not-insignificant portion of one's ability to pull cleanly only arrives courtesy of experience with a wide variety of players, there are a few rules that approach universal status. Moreover, I expect them to be equally useful when I hit the new Cataclysm dungeons and have to figure out how to tank for a group safely in a new environment with new mobs.
The more I wrote on pulling, the more I realized that the subject can be divided into two very distinct categories: what happens before you pull, and what happens while you're pulling. This week's column addresses the former. Everything I am about to tell you in this column is something that you, as an experienced tank, will eventually do in the space of a second without even realizing you're doing it.
Who's in your group?
As soon as you zone in, run a quick mental tally on your fellow players. With what classes are you going to be dealing? Who is your healer? Is there anyone there with an advanced PvE or PvP title suggesting that the player has a lot of experience?
What's their gear like?
I despise GearScore and the behavior it encourages, but there's something to be said for having a decent grasp of what your group's overall gear is like before you pull. You can download GearScore or Elitist Group if you really want, but most of the time you'll have a pretty good handle on what the group's gear is like simply by looking at them. Even if you're not familiar with what constitutes good gear for various classes, it's generally obvious if someone's rocking a four-piece tier set or a really impressive weapon.
What mobs will you be pulling?
Ahn'kahar Spell Flingers have a 6-second cast attack that will hit you for 80% of your health. Twilight Worshippers and Ring-Lord Sorceresses can wreck your group with a well-placed Flamestrike. Anub'ar Skirmishers drop aggro and can't be taunted back. Wretched Belchers have both a cone attack and a cleave that can kill a melee DPS low on health. Shadowy Mercenaries have a particular talent for Shadowstepping behind and poisoning your healers.
As DPS, you don't really need to know about any of this. As a healer, you'll be asked to compensate for it if the group can't or won't avoid the damage. As a tank, you are fantastic if you whisk a group through these pulls with a minimum amount of trouble from the more dangerous mobs. Know in advance what they do and spend abilities like Bash and Feral Charge wisely.
What walls or features allow you to break line of sight?
We're the only tank without a ranged silence, and even a silence doesn't help on any pull where you want the mobs away from a nearby patrol. Know in advance where you should move if you have to force a caster or ranged mob to come to you. If you're worried about making a clean pull, practice with the dungeon on normal mode first, many of which are soloable at 80. Or, better yet, practice with a BC heroic once you're keyed. The 70 heroics are generally trickier to pull than their counterparts in Wrath.
Whose threat do you need to be most worried about?
Any player who significantly outgears you is likely to be an aggro whore unless they're exceptionally sensitive to the issue of pulling off the tank or they do the dungeon half-naked to cripple their damage. The latter is amusing, but sadly, I don't see it much.
Five-mans are still my favorite part of the game, and I've run them for the better part of three years as both a ludicrously undergeared and ludicrously overgeared tank. This is what I've seen so far whenever threat's been a concern (and anyone with Cataclysm beta experience, please feel free to chime in on how the classes have changed in 5-mans there):
- Death knights are generally a non-issue as long as they're not in Frost Presence. Well-geared unholy knights can be problematic early in a pull.
- Our fellow druids vary, but moonkin tend to be more troublesome than cats due to the uneven nature of Eclipse procs.
- Hunters are a crapshoot. The experienced ones have almost always macroed Misdirection into their rotations and will quietly transfer a ton of free threat to you without fanfare. By contrast, inexperienced or bad hunters are champions at yanking aggro and sending a pull into disarray by Feigning Death only when a mob is already beating on them.
- Mage threat varies by spec, but well-geared mages are pretty good at producing a buttload of threat quickly. Fire tends to be the worst with inconvenient Hot Streak procs.
- Retribution paladins in good gear with a high-end weapon rocking the two-piece tier 10 bonus are hell. At equal levels of gear, they're about the same as death knights.
- Priests are generally a non-issue, I suspect because shadow often fares poorly on trash.
- Modern rogues are generally good about managing threat and, like hunters, usually macro Tricks of the Trade into their rotation. Rogues with two-piece tier 10 are virtually guaranteed to have done so.
- DPS shaman threat seems to have calmed down considerably since The Burning Crusade. They're not usually a problem these days.
- Well-geared warriors are absolute nightmares. I sincerely apologize to our fellow rage-using brethren, but you are the least appealing party member for an undergeared tank.
- Warlocks are hit-or-miss, but are easier to tank for since the demise of BC destruction spec. You're more likely to get an affliction or demonology 'lock in 5-mans these days, and neither spec has the soul-killing threat spikes of the BC destro warlock.
Every week, Shifting Perspectives treks across Azeroth in pursuit of truth, beauty and insight concerning the druid class. Sometimes it finds the latter, or something good enough for government work. Whether you're a bear, cat, moonkin, tree or stuck in caster form, we've got the skinny on druid changes in patch 3.3, a look at the disappearance of the bear tank and thoughts on why you should be playing the class (or why not).Filed under: Druid, (Druid) Shifting Perspectives






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Dave Jul 20th 2010 7:10PM
Incipient!
Dave Jul 20th 2010 10:58PM
Cue the downrate but....
No one noticed that is a synonym for first.
:P
Aoeadin Jul 20th 2010 11:53PM
The only reason you'd get downrated would be for not understanding the meaning of the word 'incipient'. It means 'in the beginning', 'fetal' or 'formative'. That is quite different to the meaning of 'first' and therefore it most certainly is not a synonym of it.
Dave Jul 21st 2010 9:01AM
I don't think you understand what a synonym means. All those things you listed are synonyms for first. Use your google-Fu.
Dave Jul 21st 2010 9:44AM
But I guess Thesaurus.com probably has NO idea what a synonym is. I mean it's not an internet lexicon. At all. Lexicon is a synonym for thesaurus.
http://thesaurus.com/browse/first
Badgerlikespeed Jul 31st 2010 3:23AM
Umm, Dave...
http://thesaurus.com/browse/incipient
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/incipient
Dictionaries are your friend, especially if you want to argue meanings...
theRaptor Jul 20th 2010 7:11PM
"Priests are generally a non-issue, I suspect because shadow often fares poorly on trash."
Terrible Shadow Priests maybe. Sure if the trash is down in 2-3 seconds Shadow is poor but at that point pulling off the tank is irrelevant anyway. VT spam and Mind Sear makes the damage charts soar (especially on raid trash) and I often keep fade on cool down.
However, what I am seeing on my fresh 80 warrior is Shadow Priests using Mind Sear on two mob pulls (for the uninformed, Mind Sear doesn't damage the target just everything around that target) like the bone giants in FoS. Which would explain why Shadow Priests have a reputation for poor trash performance.
themark0fevil Jul 21st 2010 8:36AM
As a Priest main, I have to say no, no and no. Completely inaccurate, regarding "bad shadow priests." The truth is, shadow priests have quite possibly the *worst* ramp-up time for damage (5 stacks of Shadow Weaving, and then 10 stacks of Cultivated Power, with Muradin's Spyglass), and on top of that, are a dot-centric class. What do I do on heroic trash? Spam Mind Flay. Why? Not because of 4pc T-10, but because it's the only thing I can do that's going to dish out any sort of damage unless there are more than 4 mobs alive at the same time, in which case, lolsear.
Think of it this way.
Did mob die before dot ran out?
No? Good job. Repeat with next mob.
Yes? You wasted your mana even casting the spell.
Arbolamante Jul 20th 2010 7:14PM
Worst pull in the 5-mans is the room in DTK that has the abominations and several undead trolls. What is with tanks who pull the whole room at once? That's a challenge to heal even in ICC gear, and most people are running randoms because they are not, in fact, fully ICC geared. Some people is nuts.
Arbolamante Jul 20th 2010 7:17PM
Ah yes, I should read more closely - the aforementioned Wretched Belchers. Add a whole room of undead trolls and your healer is in for lots of fun.
MrJackSauce Jul 20th 2010 7:20PM
A challenge to heal/tank is exactly why people do it. I only do it if the healer is as geared or more as me. Or if I know the healer can do it. I've seen some tanks though... /facepalm.
Moeru Jul 20th 2010 7:48PM
I do it all the time as a pally tank and I've healed it on my druid.
Bad tanks make bad pulls. Good tanks make good pulls, no matter what it is. I've had 5 trash pull on Jegoda and no one even died. If you know how to pull you can make impressive pulls that work. Problem is, people think gear makes you able to do it. So that's when you get tanks who bitch you didn't heal their yo-yo health bars.
mark Jul 20th 2010 7:56PM
it depends on how well geared your tank is
and what kind of tank
my overgeared bear hits 80k HP with survival up
frenzied regen then means 24k self heal over 10 sec
+ 4% (3.2k) per 6 sec cd on improved leader of the pack (garunteed crit swipe on that many)
barkskin for 20% less taken (12 sec)
4 set bonus for 12% less taken (10 sec)
throw in massive armour and over 50% dodge...
i can take it with a undergeared healer if my dps kill them fast enough
mark Jul 20th 2010 7:57PM
its also one of the few places i still use AP reduction in a heroic
Hirumared Jul 20th 2010 8:59PM
I remember a tank pulling that entire room while I was gearing up my fresh lv80 priest, good thing I had Divine Hymn off cooldown lol.
vespers Jul 20th 2010 9:33PM
Well.. I do it for fun. I stopped tanking on my pally a couple months ago to learn healing, but my tank gear and skill is high enough that running heroics in any way that isn't a bit stupid wasn't fun.
zubbiefish Jul 21st 2010 9:15AM
It can be a fun little challenge for the healer, if they know it's comming.
Nothing, and I mean NOTHING, is more frustrating for me as a healer, than when a tank assumes. They don't know if I've been phoning it in for the 1st bit of DTK (for example) or if the DPS will behave when we get there. They don't know if that fire mage that didn't do anything for the 1st two pulls will suddnly come alive and yank the aggro of one of the mobs in the pack you're holding. There's no way to know if you just blaze ahead without a word and scoot out of LoS while I'm looting, or don't read the chat when I tell you the phone rang, or, or, or...
Dungeons and Raids are a team sport. If you're the All Star Ball Hog Supremotankasaurus, who trusts in their mondo gear score to get it all done, and something goes sideways anyhow maybe it's not the DPS, or the heals. Maybe it's you. I'll tell you right now, I'm in there for my 2 frosties, and I want the last boss dead with as little fuss as possible. Maybe you CAN get away with pulling 1/2 the place and popping a CD until I get my act together but most tanks can't. Don't pull a stunt like the DTK room deal, not without warning.
Dameblanche Jul 21st 2010 9:37AM
Well, it's not only the tank who is to blame in this room. Rule number one for DPS should always be: do not run ahead of the tank, even not when he has pulled.
There is a reason why I stand still after my pull and let the mobs run to me and my consecration. Because I know I am directing the mobs to a place where everybody will be safe.
Running ahead of me like a headless chicken will make us wipe, no matter how careful my pull was.
KPB Jul 21st 2010 11:18AM
Did a DTK recently were we had this problem. Had an Unholy dk tank. Yes, it really was an Unholy tanking spec with tanking gear. He had his ghoul leap on a mob to pull that room and ended up with the entire room. Not surprisingly it did not go well. He didn't hold aggro on everything. Was positioning the belchers wrong so that most of the group was eating the spray and the melee were eating the cleave. Had he managed to hold aggro and position things correctly it might have been manageable as my Shaman is moderately ICC25 geared, so out-gears the instance by a bit.
Snuzzle Jul 28th 2010 4:57PM
Ah yes, I still remember a time when I was levelling up my baby heally priest through that dungeon. The tank (I don't even recall his class, but it's not important) ran headlong into that room three times, and three times we wiped. Instead of doing the smart thing like pulling less or being more cautious in another way, after the third wipe he dropped group saying, "Sorry guys, guess I am not geared enough for this."
It was then that I realized that new tanks think that's just what tanks DO. Tanks just charge in and pull and that's just how you tank. Because all they ever see on their mains is overgeared 80s in heroics doing that.
At least he didn't blame me. Cataclysm can't come soon enough.