The Daily Blues
by Adam Holisky 
Jul 20th 2010 at 11:59PM
In which Ghostcrawler talks a lot about one subject.
Table of Contents
Ghostcrawler
Ghostcrawler -- Effective Health in CataclysmQuote:
Ok, a friend and i were discussing paladin tanking and he said that the avoidance stats would be gemmed for in cataclysm. I said EH would always be king after x important stat ( like def rating or whatever is applicable) is achieved. I see things from the "i'd rather survive that huge hit with more health" than "maybe i'll that huge hit that would kill me" school of thought but i'm always open to being utterly wrong.
So, from the beta so far which theory is more correct - eh or dodge?
A mountain dew is resting on your answers!
Ok, a friend and i were discussing paladin tanking and he said that the avoidance stats would be gemmed for in cataclysm. I said EH would always be king after x important stat ( like def rating or whatever is applicable) is achieved. I see things from the "i'd rather survive that huge hit with more health" than "maybe i'll that huge hit that would kill me" school of thought but i'm always open to being utterly wrong.
So, from the beta so far which theory is more correct - eh or dodge?
A mountain dew is resting on your answers!
I'm not sure that serious tanks will ever gem dodge or parry at the expense of Stamina to any great degree. As long as dragons breathe, there will be elements of encounters where health is more useful than avoidance.
However, I think avoidance overall will still be more valuable in Cataclysm than it is on Live today when your healers risk running out of mana. The theoretical tank with a huge health pool and 0% avoidance should feel like a liability instead of the holy grail it is viewed as today.
We're trying to shake [some] tanks out of the mentality that something is garbage unless it improves health or armor. That's not the same as saying that tanks will value dodge and parry and view health and armor as garbage instead.
--
Quote:
I don't think the point is to make avoidance so much better than stamina--the point is to make avoidance better than it is NOW, to the point where you would want to use an ilvl 277 Corpse Tongue Coin over an ilvl 200 Black Heart. Right now no one who knew what they were doing would pick the former.
In any case, tanking cannot always be broken down into what offers you the most benefit via a spreadsheet like DPS can.
I don't think the point is to make avoidance so much better than stamina--the point is to make avoidance better than it is NOW, to the point where you would want to use an ilvl 277 Corpse Tongue Coin over an ilvl 200 Black Heart. Right now no one who knew what they were doing would pick the former.
In any case, tanking cannot always be broken down into what offers you the most benefit via a spreadsheet like DPS can.
Yes. Especially that last sentence. :)
--
Quote:
If you have to use your inefficient heal too much, you will go OOM.
If you take too much damage, you force your healers to use their inefficient heals more.
Avoidance reduces damage. Stamina does not.
If you have to use your inefficient heal too much, you will go OOM.
If you take too much damage, you force your healers to use their inefficient heals more.
Avoidance reduces damage. Stamina does not.
I think the issue is that some players are rejecting the notion that mana will ever matter, in which case there is no reason to approach surviving as a tank any different than you do today. There's not much we can do to disabuse anyone of that notion until they see the content.
--
Quote:
So it's the dragons' fault. Why can't you give us something we can stack and get on gear which will reduce magical damage taken? Perhaps a "mitigation rating" which will reduce all damage taken, like resilience does in PvP, though at a rate less than armor or avoidance reduces physical damage.
So it's the dragons' fault. Why can't you give us something we can stack and get on gear which will reduce magical damage taken? Perhaps a "mitigation rating" which will reduce all damage taken, like resilience does in PvP, though at a rate less than armor or avoidance reduces physical damage.
Couple of reasons. One, every boss (well, with a couple of weird exceptions) does physical damage, but there are plenty of bosses that do only physical damage. Second, we want the dragon breathing to be a scary moment that requires you and the healers to consider using your cooldowns. I realize the strategy of a tank is to try and do whatever you can to make those moments not scary, but as soon as you accomplish that, then the fights become a lot less exciting. Roller coasters that move slowly might feel more safe, but they're not as much fun. We have to nail that sometimes narrow line between letting you prepare for a fight without minimizing the danger (assuming its appropriate for your level of progression, etc.)
--
Quote:
But, the bottom line is, I still won. Your healers won't go oom if you stack stamina.
But, the bottom line is, I still won. Your healers won't go oom if you stack stamina.
This isn't what I was trying to say above. I was saying I'm not sure tanks will swap over to gemming avoidance instead of health. But we would like to see avoidance trinkets valued instead of skipped over as they are today. Our goal is for tanking guides a year from now to say "your gear should have a mix of avoidance and mitigation."
Healers will definitely run out of mana, or our entire combat model won't work. When healers don't care about mana, then fast expensive heals aren't expensive... they are just fast heals. DPS classes won't value survival-oriented talents because they'll know the healers can keep them alive. Regen stats on gear and regen talents will be skipped over, because regen isn't important when your pool never risks emptying. In vanilla and BC, mana mattered more. That's all we're taking about here.
--
Quote:
Specifically to cataclysm, it depends on how it is implemented. Even if the tank dies in 7-8 hits, if avoidance is relied on too much, the RNG can still kill you.
Specifically to cataclysm, it depends on how it is implemented. Even if the tank dies in 7-8 hits, if avoidance is relied on too much, the RNG can still kill you.
Only if your strategy is for your healers to heal you once every 7-8 hits. Even if your healers were asleep through 4 of those hits, they should be able to wake up, realize how quickly your health is going down, and get a few heal bombs on you to slowly bring you back up. Failing to get a dodge 7 hits in a row won't ever kill you unless the healers are silenced. However, failing to get a dodge 7 hits in a row will cause your healers to waste a lot of mana.
Other
Valnoth -- AQ mounts outside of AQ? No.Quote:
Now that Cataclysm has occurred, has there been any thought on allowing the ground Silithid mounts (Red, Blue, Green, Yellow) to be used in the normal world environment?
Now that Cataclysm has occurred, has there been any thought on allowing the ground Silithid mounts (Red, Blue, Green, Yellow) to be used in the normal world environment?
We have no plans to do this now or in the foreseeable future.
Blizzard
StarCraft II forums closingWith the launch of the new StarCraft II community site these forums will be closed on July 27. Any previous sticky topics or information that you'd like to keep will need to be backed up and transferred to the new site or they will be lost. To clarify: the forum is being removed and posts deleted on July 27.
Once the beta comes to an end on July 19 we'll be wiping all beta information which means that posting on the StarCraft II beta forums, and the new StarCraft II community site will not be possible until the game's release. Posting on the general non-beta StarCraft II forums, and this World of Warcraft hosted StarCraft II forum, will continue to be available until July 27.
To post on the new StarCraft II community site you'll need to purchase StarCraft II, log in on launch day, and create a character. Logging in to the retail game to create a character won't be possible until the game launches on July 27.
We'd like to thank everyone for their participation here, feedback, and assistance in testing the game. It's been an amazing process for us, and we're looking forward to seeing you on the new site once the game releases. StarCraft II is all of ours to be proud of, and the quality and fun of the game reflects the dedication of the community and testers. Thank you again.
Check out the StarCraft II community site if you haven't already, and we'll see you online July 27!
http://beta-us.battle.net/sc2/en/
Once the beta comes to an end on July 19 we'll be wiping all beta information which means that posting on the StarCraft II beta forums, and the new StarCraft II community site will not be possible until the game's release. Posting on the general non-beta StarCraft II forums, and this World of Warcraft hosted StarCraft II forum, will continue to be available until July 27.
To post on the new StarCraft II community site you'll need to purchase StarCraft II, log in on launch day, and create a character. Logging in to the retail game to create a character won't be possible until the game launches on July 27.
We'd like to thank everyone for their participation here, feedback, and assistance in testing the game. It's been an amazing process for us, and we're looking forward to seeing you on the new site once the game releases. StarCraft II is all of ours to be proud of, and the quality and fun of the game reflects the dedication of the community and testers. Thank you again.
Check out the StarCraft II community site if you haven't already, and we'll see you online July 27!
http://beta-us.battle.net/sc2/en/
Filed under: The Daily Blues
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Iirdan Jul 21st 2010 12:34AM
"Now that Cataclysm has occurred, has there been any thought on allowing the ground Silithid mounts (Red, Blue, Green, Yellow) to be used in the normal world environment?
We have no plans to do this now or in the foreseeable future. "
http://yfrog.com/n8lulzghostcrawlerj
kazeko.fuuga Jul 21st 2010 12:44AM
Lol, nice pic
Those mounts would be awesome to have. Too bad.
Iirdan Jul 21st 2010 12:47AM
Yeah, I don't understand why not. It would take away nothing from the game, and it's just a fun addition.
Thayer Jul 21st 2010 9:02AM
Lore reasons. You have a silithid mount because you picked up a resonating crystal that lets you control it (the item that teaches the mount). The resonating crystals don't work outside AQ because there are no other crystals for it to resonate with. I didn't read this anywhere, I have no source to quote, that's just me thinking it through. Feel free to come up with a reason why I'm wrong, but it makes perfect sense to me.
V Magius Jul 21st 2010 9:47AM
@Thayer - acceptable theory. We could still have Silithid mounts. We have to kill enough of them running around. They could tame one of those and put a mount vendor in Silithus. Could be like the Netherwing or Raptor mount. Or, they could just give it to us without hoops to jump through.
zdave Jul 21st 2010 1:02AM
i've never seen it, but the black one http://www.wowhead.com/item=21176 can be used outside the instance.
Pwekl Jul 21st 2010 1:20AM
The reason you've never seen it, and the reason it can be used outside the instance, is because that mount is a reward for opening the gates. (or hitting the gong withing 12 hours of the gates opening.) At this point, I'm almost certain less of those mounts exist than there are servers. (Since AQ is open by default on new servers now)
zdave Jul 21st 2010 1:24AM
just sayin :P
i think the real reason i don't see many is that i'm on faildenar (jaedenar), and while the server is old enough to have been around for the event, either the people that got the title left the server or nobody got the title. neither would suprise me.
i think it was a 10hour window, though.
KrisseyB Jul 21st 2010 8:31AM
We have 2 on malfurion. Someone who had one server transfered. Sorry other server ; )