The Daily Blues
by Gregg Reece 
Jul 20th 2010 at 12:30AM
Ghostcrawler talks today about tank effective health and why people don't gem for dodge. Something about dragon breath hurts.
Table of Contents
- Ghostcrawler on the effective health of tanks
- Battleground extra honor and how it works
- Maintenance and the reason for its odd time
- Other
Ghostcrawler
Ghostcrawler -- Effective health of tanksI'm not sure that serious tanks will ever gem dodge or parry at the expense of Stamina to any great degree. As long as dragons breathe, there will be elements of encounters where health is more useful than avoidance.
However, I think avoidance overall will still be more valuable in Cataclysm than it is on Live today when your healers risk running out of mana. The theoretical tank with a huge health pool and 0% avoidance should feel like a liability instead of the holy grail it is viewed as today.
We're trying to shake [some] tanks out of the mentality that something is garbage unless it improves health or armor. That's not the same as saying that tanks will value dodge and parry and view health and armor as garbage instead.
However, I think avoidance overall will still be more valuable in Cataclysm than it is on Live today when your healers risk running out of mana. The theoretical tank with a huge health pool and 0% avoidance should feel like a liability instead of the holy grail it is viewed as today.
We're trying to shake [some] tanks out of the mentality that something is garbage unless it improves health or armor. That's not the same as saying that tanks will value dodge and parry and view health and armor as garbage instead.
Ghostcrawler -- Effective health of tanksQuote:
I don't think the point is to make avoidance so much better than stamina--the point is to make avoidance better than it is NOW, to the point where you would want to use an ilvl 277 Corpse Tongue Coin over an ilvl 200 Black Heart. Right now no one who knew what they were doing would pick the former.
In any case, tanking cannot always be broken down into what offers you the most benefit via a spreadsheet like DPS can.
I don't think the point is to make avoidance so much better than stamina--the point is to make avoidance better than it is NOW, to the point where you would want to use an ilvl 277 Corpse Tongue Coin over an ilvl 200 Black Heart. Right now no one who knew what they were doing would pick the former.
In any case, tanking cannot always be broken down into what offers you the most benefit via a spreadsheet like DPS can.
Yes. Especially that last sentence. :)
Ghostcrawler -- Effective health of tanksQuote:
If you have to use your inefficient heal too much, you will go OOM.
If you take too much damage, you force your healers to use their inefficient heals more.
Avoidance reduces damage. Stamina does not.
If you have to use your inefficient heal too much, you will go OOM.
If you take too much damage, you force your healers to use their inefficient heals more.
Avoidance reduces damage. Stamina does not.
I think the issue is that some players are rejecting the notion that mana will ever matter, in which case there is no reason to approach surviving as a tank any different than you do today. There's not much we can do to disabuse anyone of that notion until they see the content.
Ghostcrawler -- Effective health of tanksQuote:
So it's the dragons' fault. Why can't you give us something we can stack and get on gear which will reduce magical damage taken? Perhaps a "mitigation rating" which will reduce all damage taken, like resilience does in PvP, though at a rate less than armor or avoidance reduces physical damage.
So it's the dragons' fault. Why can't you give us something we can stack and get on gear which will reduce magical damage taken? Perhaps a "mitigation rating" which will reduce all damage taken, like resilience does in PvP, though at a rate less than armor or avoidance reduces physical damage.
Couple of reasons. One, every boss (well, with a couple of weird exceptions) does physical damage, but there are plenty of bosses that do only physical damage. Second, we want the dragon breathing to be a scary moment that requires you and the healers to consider using your cooldowns. I realize the strategy of a tank is to try and do whatever you can to make those moments not scary, but as soon as you accomplish that, then the fights become a lot less exciting. Roller coasters that move slowly might feel more safe, but they're not as much fun. We have to nail that sometimes narrow line between letting you prepare for a fight without minimizing the danger (assuming its appropriate for your level of progression, etc.)
Battlegrounds
LylirraThe quick answer is no, you shouldn't receive double rewards for completing your first Random Battleground if that Battleground also happens to be under the effects of the Call to Arms bonuses.
Zarhym goes into much further detail in his full post here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=23307931060&sid=1 :)
Quote:
When using the Random Battleground option, players will not receive additional rewards if the Battleground chosen is under the effects of the Call to Arms bonuses. In other words, the bonuses do not stack. In addition, if a player has been rewarded 30 Honorable Kills worth of bonus Honor currency and 25 Arena points from either the Random Battleground system, or the Call to Arms Battleground, he or she will be rewarded 15 Honorable Kills worth of bonus Honor currency and no Arena points that day for each additional victory. This applies whether the Random Battleground system is used, or the Call to Arms Battleground is chosen specifically, as a player cannot be rewarded the full amount of bonus Honor and the 25 Arena points more than once per day.
When using the Random Battleground option, players will not receive additional rewards if the Battleground chosen is under the effects of the Call to Arms bonuses. In other words, the bonuses do not stack. In addition, if a player has been rewarded 30 Honorable Kills worth of bonus Honor currency and 25 Arena points from either the Random Battleground system, or the Call to Arms Battleground, he or she will be rewarded 15 Honorable Kills worth of bonus Honor currency and no Arena points that day for each additional victory. This applies whether the Random Battleground system is used, or the Call to Arms Battleground is chosen specifically, as a player cannot be rewarded the full amount of bonus Honor and the 25 Arena points more than once per day.
Zarhym goes into much further detail in his full post here: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=23307931060&sid=1 :)
Maintenance
Bashiok -- Odd times for maintenance this weekWe're changing the normal time to align with a scheduled maintenance our ISP will be performing on the network our game servers use. The idea being that if we were to have our maintenance at the normal 5am time, the game wouldn't be playable anyway due to the ISP network maintenance, so we're trying overlap them instead of dragging out the entire downtime unnecessarily.
We apologize for the inconvenience, we realize it isn't ideal for all players, and we try to minimize downtime and impact wherever and whenever possible.
We apologize for the inconvenience, we realize it isn't ideal for all players, and we try to minimize downtime and impact wherever and whenever possible.
Bashiok -- Extended Maintenance on the following realmsThe realms listed below will be undergoing a 24 hour extended maintenance to prepare them for the upcoming expansion. They'll be brought down tonight at 12:01 AM PDT, July 20 and will remain down until approximately 12:01 AM PDT, July 21.
All realms not listed below will undergo their Tuesday maintenance on July 20, at 1:00 AM PDT, and be down until approximately 7:00 AM PDT.
Aerie Peak
Altar of Storms
Alterac Mountains
Andorhal
Anetheron
Anvilmar
Archimonde
Area 52
Arygos
Auchindoun
Azuremyst
Black Dragonflight
Blackwing Lair
Blade's Edge
Blood Furnace
Coilfang
Dalaran
Dalvengyr
Dawnbringer
Deathwing
Demon Soul
Dentarg
Doomhammer
Duskwood
Executus
Exodar
Fizzcrank
Galakrond
Ghostlands
Gnomeregan
Grizzly Hills
Haomarush
Icecrown
Jaedenar
Kel'Thuzad
Khadgar
Lethon
Mal'Ganis
Norgannon
Onyxia
Scilla
Sentinels
Shattered Halls
Steamwheedle Cartel
Tanaris
Terokkar
The Scryers
The Underbog
The Venture Co
Thrall
Turalyon
Uldaman
Undermine
Velen
Ysera
Ysondre
Zangarmarsh
Zuluhed
All realms not listed below will undergo their Tuesday maintenance on July 20, at 1:00 AM PDT, and be down until approximately 7:00 AM PDT.
Aerie Peak
Altar of Storms
Alterac Mountains
Andorhal
Anetheron
Anvilmar
Archimonde
Area 52
Arygos
Auchindoun
Azuremyst
Black Dragonflight
Blackwing Lair
Blade's Edge
Blood Furnace
Coilfang
Dalaran
Dalvengyr
Dawnbringer
Deathwing
Demon Soul
Dentarg
Doomhammer
Duskwood
Executus
Exodar
Fizzcrank
Galakrond
Ghostlands
Gnomeregan
Grizzly Hills
Haomarush
Icecrown
Jaedenar
Kel'Thuzad
Khadgar
Lethon
Mal'Ganis
Norgannon
Onyxia
Scilla
Sentinels
Shattered Halls
Steamwheedle Cartel
Tanaris
Terokkar
The Scryers
The Underbog
The Venture Co
Thrall
Turalyon
Uldaman
Undermine
Velen
Ysera
Ysondre
Zangarmarsh
Zuluhed
Other
Lylirra -- Tabard of the Argent Dawn:Beloved though it is, there are no current plans to reintroduce the Tabard of the Argent Dawn.
Zarhym -- Where Blues mine their truesilver and mithrilI tried several different places for Mithril Ore specifically on my death knight, but found Tanaris to be the most reliable. Oh, how I miss the days of catching him up on professions. :)
Filed under: The Daily Blues
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Mgssidley Jul 20th 2010 1:08AM
Does anyone have the URL where I can enter my phone number and get WoW.com SMS updates? Sorry to be posting here but I have been looking everywhere for it.
Viper007Bond Jul 20th 2010 1:12AM
If you're gonna troll, at least be good at it. You failed epicly, sir.
Chubz Jul 20th 2010 2:03AM
Whenever I need Mithril Ore quick I hit the Badlands. Usually walk away with 100+ Mith and Iron Ore and 40+ Truesilver Ore after about an hour of farming.
RetPallyJil Jul 20th 2010 2:03AM
No way. Alterac for mithril. Always.
Pyromelter Jul 20th 2010 5:30AM
There really is no "best" place for mithril. Mithril is almost always the most expensive ore, and the biggest bottleneck for miners when skilling it up.
Wowhead lists The Hinterlands as the place with the most mithril nodes, and this matches my experience. The problem with the hinterlands is that there are mobs in every nook and cranny, and there are a lot of hills and trails you have to go through to get to all those places. Tanaris is much more wide open and you can mine without as much hassle from NPC's.
Any other place is viable as was mentioned. Blasted Lands is great because you can port right there from a home city. Badlands and searing gorge both have some good nodes to bang on. Alterac doesn't have as many nodes but is much smaller and easier to make a full circuit. You can also go to Searing Gorge and Desolace and be almost assured there will be no one competing with you there.
The bottom line is that mining for mithril means you are going somewhere far out of the way in some crappy nook and cranny place that no one really wants to go to. You're best off trying to make some gold another way and just overpaying for it.
CaryEverett Jul 20th 2010 7:07AM
If you're level 80, Tanaris is definitely my favorite.
You can pop your way down into the Silithid holes, and get a ton of Mithril in close proximity where low level players cannot go very easily.
I've leveled multiple miners in WoW, and I can always get to Thorium after only a single trip into both the Gaping Chasm and the Noxious Lair.
spamofchaz Jul 20th 2010 2:55PM
I hate bug caves. I don't care if I'm at level or at 80, I will not go into those tunnels. It's not a phobia or anything, I just hate how they force you to go in one direction only, no choices. And that node (or ! or ?) you see on your screen that's riiiight there? Nope, you have to loop around through three more rooms to get there.
Plus, say you do clean out a tunnel system - you can't start over, you have to try and remember your way out - crossing over node-free territory and wasting time.
Nope, no tunnels for me.
N-train Jul 20th 2010 2:06AM
As a tank, I approve of them trying to make avoidance useful!
Neirin Jul 20th 2010 11:45AM
In BC tanks had insane levels of avoidance. Pallys and warriors had to make sure they never took a full hit (i.e. everything was either dodged, parried, or blocked) and Druids could hit 102.5% dodge in t4. A BoE blue was BiS for bears basically into Sunwell. Compared to that, the rampant stam stacking of Wrath is at least a little better. Hopefully Cata will be able to get the balance right.
minimagicman Jul 20th 2010 1:06PM
@ neirin
Your information is extremely inaccurate. I only remember this because I was trying to make an avoidance tank, but in order to get 99% avoidance (highest possible at the time) you had to have pieces of black temple, sunwell, and one quest reward piece of gear. Also, you had to have every buff/debuff that effected hit/dodge such as hunters sting and boomkins dot.
Also, avoidance was a much better stat back then because of crushing blows which affected all levels, and if you got crushed by a boss the fight was over.
Hope this might put things in perspective for some LK raiders
~Mini
Mgssidley Jul 20th 2010 2:06AM
Who are you?
Vlisa Jul 20th 2010 2:44AM
Yay for no Durotan ^.^
arcaneterror Jul 20th 2010 3:10AM
As someone who's main is on Durotan, I can say there are few reasons to celebrate it, stinking hellhole that it is.
Vlisa Jul 20th 2010 4:46AM
Ahh... I think it growns on you after a while... like fungus.
Cute fungus! Σ:3
Al Jul 20th 2010 4:00AM
Naturally they saw no reason to mention the shutdown change on the Oceanic General forum. At least they can recycle last year's lip service B.S about improving service and communication for the upcoming Blizzcon.
Jay Jul 20th 2010 4:15AM
It was on the service status forum.
6pm sucks, but it's only one week.
Al Jul 20th 2010 4:29AM
Hmm. Given how the Oceanic General was their token effort to 'better communication' with us, still displeased.
I'll just file it with "Took them 6 months to acknowledge (no explanation or apology) removing our instance servers", "5 months, still no anything on Holiday events no longer starting at local time" and all the other crap, and remind myself my time runs out on Saturday.
icepyro Jul 20th 2010 4:03AM
I didn't even know that Corpse Tongue Coin existed. What math justifies it's itemization? If they want tanks to have avoidance and not just EH, then itemizing this way is definitely not the answer. The Black Heart is a very clear winner to me and not just because of how I value stats. I will never be convinced that 4.37% dodge is worth 126 stam and 580 armor on a proc. Sure, the proc on CTC is guaranteed when I reach 35% vs a 25% chance on TBH, but really even with the ICDs I will likely get more procs out of TBH even if the healers are barely keeping me up. Not to mention that dodge suffers diminishing returns while stam gets boosted by standard buffs and talents. So really that's like 2.x% dodge vs 157 stam when counting Blessing of Kings and talents. If that is on a 52k or less health tank, that stam makes up more than 3%. Think about it.
Pyromelter Jul 20th 2010 5:25AM
My icc25-geared death knight tank is still using Essence of Gossamer as his mainstay trinket (and i "borrow" the Corroded Skeleton Key when I ranged tank keleseth or need a boost in pure health... then I trade it back).
The heroic version of Unidentifiable organ is absolutely money; the tank trinket from Sindragosa is absolutely stellar, ironically it's best use is for... tanking sindragosa.
The corpse tongue coin is still a very good trinket, but yes, the black heart is better, which is kind of sad when you think about the itemization.
Bain Jul 20th 2010 8:23AM
corpse tongue coin is brilliant for add tanking on anub arak in togc.
shame its bloody awful for anything else.