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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsGold Capped Ask an Auctioneer: My first mailbag
by Basil Berntsen 
Jul 21st 2010 at 10:00PM
I've gotten quite the mail bag of questions emailed to me. I'm going to select a few and answer them approximately whenever I feel like it. Remember when writing your question that if you want to remain anonymous, all you need to do is ask!
The first question comes to us from Mahgo, from Dath'Remar (US):
I am emailing your for some advice regarding making gold on the auction house. I have most professions at max level.
I currently use Auctioneer to undercut when I am selling what I make. Do you have any advice or could you please point me for some help regarding niche markets, or how to tackle the whole market?
You're well set for more markets than any one person probably has time for. To start off with, make a point of scheduling your easy money. A few of the professions you've listed have cooldowns that have profitability baked in. Alchemy has epic gem transmutes, tailoring has bag cooldowns and jewelcrafting has the daily token quest that can net you a Dragon's Eye. Arrange your time so that you can do these very profitable activities as often as they're available. It's not scalable, but it's a sure thing.
Secondly, it's good to hear that you're using an addon to help with this. Auctioneering would be a massive pain in the neck if we couldn't automate stuff like buying and selling. You should consider adding Lilsparky's Workshop to your list so you can focus your crafting time on the most profitable markets. I posted a guide in my blacksmithing piece about how to use it. I assume you're looking for niche markets because they're generally more profitable, so skip the "niche" requirement and just go for profitable.
That said, if you're looking for niche markets because you want to avoid the heavy competition, you might want to look into blue quality gems and BoA enchant scrolls.
Cash for an epic flyer
Varkul from Azuremyst writes:
You're where a lot of us started off. I'm glad to hear you say that you're aware of how much (or little) you spend, as this is by far the biggest hurdle for most players. I'm not going to advise that you scrimp, though. You should be able to increase your income enough that you can afford not only your epic flyer, but also the little luxuries that people tend to want.I'm trying to get my epic flyer on my first 80 and it's painfully slow. I can only seem to stay at 1.5k g, and I don't buy anything. Can I have some advice on how to make the extra 2.5k (I have the rep bonus) as fast as I can so I will be ready for Cataclysm?
Start off by reading my casual auctioneering post. Pay particularly close attention to the "materials conversion" section. Basically, buying eternal elementals and selling them in crystallized form (you can right click on, for example, an Eternal Fire to make 10 Crystallized Fires) is slow but steady profits on most realm. There are a couple of different markets that work this way and require no up-front investment in a trade skill. The demand and profits are generated by the fact that some people really only want one or two of them and are willing to pay more so they don't have leftovers.
Also, while you didn't mention your trade skills, if one of your skills happens to be a gathering profession, consider farming out the money you need. Obviously without an epic flyer, doing it in Northrend or Outland would be tedious; however, assuming you have the fast land mount, consider farming in the high-level areas of the old world. Some older farmables will sell for more than their modern counterparts, simply because people need them to level professions.
Item listing totals
Vorin from Kilrogg writes:
I don't think Auctioneer supports that out of the box. As for your second question, however, I'd strongly suggest you take a look at my guide to using the snatch feature.Is there a way to get Auctioneer to tell you how many times you've listed a specific item? Either via a search or a tooltip note? Also, I would love a quick rundown on the Snatch List. I've heard it praised, but have yet to figure it out, nor have I found a simple explanation on its use.
Well, that's it, folks! This is as much wisdom as I can stuff in under my word limit. Stay tuned for more of the same, and keep sending me questions!
[Image credit: Stephoto]
Maximize your profits with more advice from Gold Capped, plus the author's Call to Auction podcast. Do you have questions about selling, reselling and building your financial empire on the auction house? Basil is now taking questions for a special series, "Ask an auctioneer"; email basil@wow.com. Filed under: Gold Capped
Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
SunGod228 Jul 22nd 2010 9:58AM
While this is a valid gold making option, just be really careful.
Its 100% legal for people to snipe your auctions when doing cross faction trading like this.
MDrules Jul 22nd 2010 10:14AM
I do this all the time, and was wondering if this violates the ToS at all. It seems like if Blizzard didn't care if this was done at all that you'd be able to buy it thru the neutral AH without having to someone else help out.
Basil Berntsen Jul 22nd 2010 11:53AM
This does not break the ToS, and in the above linked post I wrote on it, I cover some techniques that you can use to limit your sniping losses. Just so long as you lose less than the neutral AH cut on average, you're in the money ;)
SumDuud Jul 22nd 2010 4:04PM
I've made well over 20k gold from cross faction market discrepancies. I've also had some ninjas (most ever was 2k worth of runed orbs), but I still come out ahead. One of those high risk high reward scenarios. But moving stuff during off peak hours helps reduce the risk.
Khirsah Jul 22nd 2010 8:24PM
thanks for the link to the previous article. I'm relatively new to this site, and must have missed that one. Sorry for stepping on your toes, Basil. :)
Ghost Dancer Jul 22nd 2010 2:28AM
Just a quick but important note about undercutting. Don't do it. No really, please don't undecut others on the AH. This is pretty obvious but most people seem to miss the point, but each time a seller undercuts the rest, the market price drops. I've seen the price on some gems drop by 50-100 G in a week, making them non-profitable and ultimately all the sellers lose out as result.
If there are only a few existing items of what you are selling there is no need to undercut, your item will likely be sold anyway. If there are lots of the item already on sale, see how quickly they are being purchased and consider selling something else instead.
Ironically, the greed that makes people undercut means they make less money in the long run, so please look at the big picture and think before you sell :)
Snag Jul 22nd 2010 3:16AM
I don't agree at all the undercutting ruins the market. As someone who has been working in the glyph market for awhile now undercutting is just part of the game. The thing is to not be obnoxious about how much you undercut by.
I've found on my server there are about 2 or 3 major players in the glyph market and a handful of smaller players. We undercut and get undercut numerous times each day (5 or 6 or even more) on hundeds of auction at a time. The trick to undercutting (and keeping a healthy market) is to undercut by a very small amount. In the glyph market I undercut by 73c. The thing you want is to be on the top of the list (lowest price). If I'm 73c lower then people will by mine.
If I keep the undercut amount small (and so do my competitors) then the market value drop happens at a much slower rate. all of us in the glyph market are in it to make money and it's in out best interest to keep the prices at a higher (but reasonable) level all around.
That said even in the "regular" market I undercut by only 1s. No reason to go higher than that. The normal person searching the auction house only cares which item it at the top (cheapest) not how much cheaper it is.
Ghost Dancer Jul 22nd 2010 3:43AM
That certainly helps reduce the problem.
What I did not make clear in my first post is that I was referring to the buyout price not the bid price, since most sales tend to come from buyouts. Lowering the bid price will put you top of the list, but as you say you only need do this by a small amount.
The problem arises when people undercut the buyout prices - like I said, I've seen market prices plummet because of this.
Lars Petersson Jul 22nd 2010 6:01AM
On that note, I don't particularly care if my competition don't sell anything because I undercut them, what I care about is whether I sell my goods.
If I don't undercut, then I don't sell. The solution? Undercut my competitors. (http://www.wow.com/2010/03/17/the-art-of-pricing/)
Or to put it another way, what is more profitable?:
1) To put something on the AH, not selling it and having wasted the AH fee
2) Put something on the AH, undercut your competition adn sell it for a profit.
I'm reasonably certain that it's 2).
In some rare cases you can get away with overcutting (http://www.wow.com/2010/03/22/time-is-money-overcutting-in-times-of-scarcity/) but as a geenral rule, that's not a way to make money.
I am active both in the large and active markets, such as glyphs, and the slightly more highend craftables, ilvl 245 items) and I can promise you that if I didn't undercut, I wouldn't have been able to afford epic flying on every toon + Cold weather flying + BoE epics the moment they hit 80...
Ghost Dancer Jul 22nd 2010 6:18AM
*sigh* You have missed the point.
I saved up 16K for the Tundra Mammoth in just a few weeks. Most of the money came from selling gems and I didn't undercut anyone (on buyout prices). However, I did make less money toward the end as market prices dropped BECAUSE people were undercutting.
Not caring about your competitors means that you are doing yourself out of money as I explained in my previous posts. The only time you won't sell something is if the AH is flooded with that particular item, in which case sell something else. The more people that undercut, the quicker the prices drop.
I used to sell the epic rings & neck items (way back when) but within a month or so the price dropped from around 2k to 1k - all the sellers lost out here because some people are greedy, there was no need to undercut as the market was not exactly flooded with them at the time.
My point is that you will make more money at a quickler rate by not undercutting the buyout price. I've done it, it works.
jrizutko Jul 22nd 2010 11:30AM
@Ghost Dancer
You seem to think there is a right and wrong price that you know and others are screwing up. You've got it completely backwards. No one is ruining the market. They're just making a profit by moving their goods. Maybe they could maximize their profits better, but so could you. Either take advantage of them or find a more efficient way to make gold. You don't have any special right to make gold at the AH without facing competition.
Ghost Dancer Jul 22nd 2010 11:42AM
@jrizutko
You have made a lot of assumptions about me & what I said, and all of them are wrong :-p
Perhaps my meaning was not clear but I was making a suggestion, based on my experience, that can help everyone to make more money. I never set the price of anything, I just sell things for the SAME price as everyone else.
Maybe some people have had different experiences, but on my realm at least, everything I have said holds true.
Boobah Jul 22nd 2010 12:45PM
You'll have to forgive us, then, because you sound an awful lot like the folk who come around to complain that their personal fiefdom in the marketplace is DOOMED because Basil mentioned it.
The fact is that undercutting can make the difference between making a sale or having to relist later. It's also true that more people are likely to buy if the price is lower. And that while lower prices for finished goods makes life a little more difficult for the people providing them, their customers rejoice. Finally, if the undercutting bugs you that much, and costs you that much, and you think the market will support a higher price... why aren't you scooping up the bargains yourself and relisting them at the correct price? Seems like easy money.
Ghost Dancer Jul 22nd 2010 1:08PM
@Boobah
Nope, that was not my intent. I have made a lot of money on the AH (without undercutting), and when prices drop too much due to other sellers, I just sell something else instead. In fact I have made enough money for everything I want and more, so I don't bother selling anythign anymore as there is simply no need for me to do so.
At the end of the day people will do what they do, I was just offering a suggestion, based on experience, for a way to increase profit for all concerned.
Khirsah Jul 22nd 2010 8:30PM
Remember that undercutting works both ways. It is detrimental when you are trying to sell something and make a profit, but it is very helpful when you are trying to buy something on the cheap. And yes, I am guilty of complaining at both ends of the spectrum.
JKWood Jul 22nd 2010 10:57PM
@Ghost Dancer:
The Law of Supply and Demand states that, in any given market, the maximum revenue is to be found by balancing the price such that Supply is as close as possible to Demand. If you list your items too high, you'll make more money per sale, but less sales overall, and thus lose money. If you list your items too low, then you will make more sales overall, but won't make enough overall to meet the demand. The key is to map out your demand curve and supply curve, find the point where they meet, and establish your price there. This is how economics works, whether you're talking about real markets or in-game markets.
How can we accomplish this? Market experimentation. If you list to begin with at your maximum price without even examining current prices, you may find yourself way above market prices, and you're out your listing fee when nobody buys it. If you sell at your minimum price without examining current prices, then you'll screw yourself out of money you may have made. The easiest route to getting a decent price is to examine current market prices, then undercut by a slight amount. Over time, you'll find that you can adjust a little bit to determine at what price people will generally buy - ramp up the price a little at a time until you miss a sale, then you'll know the range people are looking for.
As far as extreme undercutting goes, it's a simple matter to buy up all the low-priced auctions and essentially reset the market by listing it all yourself for a "proper" price.
Zanathos Jul 23rd 2010 3:13AM
Imploring people not to undercut hasn't stopped them for the past five years.
logicalfundy Jul 23rd 2010 12:57PM
I hate to say this - but most people just don't care. You're living in a world where most people are not interested in treating this like an economics simulation, and only really go to the AH to sell items they don't want.
Especially on a high population server like the one I'm on - there's really no controlling the price. Most people who are selling are not interested in doing a lot of work to make a profit.
. . . and sometimes volume IS more important than price. A lot of real life industries thrive on mass production, which allows you to sell huge volumes - at a low price!
It's not a bad thing to get more profit by volume rather than by individual profit margin.
In fact, I would argue that a lot of items in the AH will actually get you *more* profit from volume sales rather than from high prices. A lot of profession based items are easy to turn into large volume businesses.
If you price things TOO high, you risk having your customers move towards making the items themselves, rather than buying at the AH. Then you're left with items you'll never sell because customers will never buy them.
You have to look at supply AND demand - you can't just look at one and ignore the other. Demand is elastic in this game - it can change, and change easily.
Njay Jul 22nd 2010 3:13AM
I don't do any farming... just stand in AH and watch the ebb and flow of materials... I'm gold capped just from whoring it up in there and NEVER undercut.
I know the game so well now that i can sell certain green armors for 88g a pop.
Watch the AH, understand what professions need to level and pwn it!
Rockstaert Jul 22nd 2010 4:26AM
The only market i'm actively participating in is the epic gem business. I started this when (how surprisingly) me alchemist got the epic gem transmutes. After a while i noticed the flow of prices on raw and cut gems. Right now i mainly focus on Cardinal Rubies and the cut Runed and Bold ones. By just being patient it is really easy to buy all of these around 100g when supply is high and sell them again for prices around 125g when supply is low. Sometimes prices even drop to 90g and rise to 140g.
The trick is to always be patient and don't be afraid to be stuck with 100 cut/uncut gems for a week when price stays low for a while. Untill the expension really is breathing down our necks, prices will always go up again. People will always get new gear, if it aren't the top end raiders anymore, it will be raiders with slower progressio or alts.
Rockstaert