Drama Mamas: Friends behaving badly
by Robin Torres 
Jul 23rd 2010 at 2:00PM
We often explain bad behavior in game (and on the internet in general) with anonymity (NSFW link). This just does not apply to the letters we answer this week. The friends behaving badly know the letter writers in "real life," and it is that phrase that seems to be the problem. If WoW were just a game and not real people interacting in real situations, it wouldn't cause real drama for us to tackle each week. This disconnect between proper behavior in the physical world and Azeroth just doesn't make sense when you know your guildies in both places. But sense or not, it happens -- and these letters are just two examples of a common problem.
Dear Drama Mamas,
I am in a very grave pickle. I have been the officer and raid leader in an ICC-guild for a while now, and the guild has up until now respected me. I say up until now because I did something I have regretted since - I invited a real-life friend of mine into the guild.
Since my friend has joined, he has been an absolute impossible thing to control. He believes that having an officer as his friend makes him immune to criticism, and has insulted offended and belittled just about everyone so far, including me. He thinks we're all rubbish, he thinks he can do better and he just sits there, refusing to raid, refusing to chip in, he just criticises endlessly. Sometimes it's simple sarcasm, sometimes it's been full-on rage rants in Ventrilo.
I have tried to talk to him, reason with him. I've told him that he never behaves like this in real life and there's no need for it in WoW. I've explained he's making it hard for me to do my job in the guild. I've even warned him that if he continues on, I will kick him myself - but to no avail.
This is a guild I have helped build over many months, and am proud of being a part of, but my friend is utterly impossible and I do worry that if I kick him, this is going to be a big problem in our real-life friendship. But likewise, the guild knows he is a friend of mine and they see my unwillingness to do anything as a bad thing. Whichever way, I'm losing right now and I don't know where to place my chips next. I do feel like I'm on the verge of doing something I will probably regret for a long time to come, but I ask you, gorgeous Drama Mamas, is there any hope for a peaceful resolution here?
With much sadness,
Emotionally Conflicted Hunter
Hey there Drama Mamas!
I'll make this short and sweet.
I am an officer of a guild of people I know in real life, and the GM is my boyfriend. We've set out everything for the guild within the span of two weeks, from vent to a website to rules. However there's one thing you can't smooth out easily: inconsideration.
The thing is, even though it's listed clearly in the guild rules to be considerate of other people, in or out of guild, we still have people ninjaing things in heroic runs, even if it's all guildies, or not inviting others to dungeon runs even though they're tanks. In the time of two weeks, a group of friends who used to be tightly knit are isolating themselves from others.
The worst part however, is that it's hard to reprimand anyone about it. Both my boyfriend and I have been talking to people about it, but instead of dealing with it like mature individuals, they're throwing tantrums. We're being accused of unfairness, given excuses like "I need to need the green BoEs for my epic flying", and just flat out ignored as credible authority just because we know them in real life.
This whole situation is creating problems in my personal relationship with my boyfriend, and my friendships with the guild members as a whole. There is virtually no respect between members, and I can't take any more.
This is my plea to you Drama Mamas. How do I teach my friends and guildies respect?
Signed,
Depressed Druid
Drama Mama Robin: Hunter and Druid, your friends are not treating you like friends. So if there is any real-life fallout from this, it is their doing -- not yours. But fear of the fallout should not prevent you from acting according to your principles in-game. This isn't just your leisure time these "friends" are affecting; the good guildies and other players on your realm are suffering as well. You can't control your friends or teach them respect. You can show them their behavior is unacceptable by dissociating from them in game. Here are some things to try:
- Tell them your out of game friendship is suffering. Tell them that your friendship is important to you and you think that your playstyles are unfortunately incompatible. Tell them that you'd rather not have a game come between you.
- Ask them to leave. Your officer/leader status means you get to keep the guild and they need to find a new in-game home. Tell them that it would mean a lot to you if they leave the guild so that you can remain friends outside of Azeroth.
- Use Real ID. This is exactly what Real ID is intended for: real friends who already know how to contact you in the physical world. Of course, if you have issues with the security of it, don't use it. But otherwise, you can just exchange Battle.net emails and tell your friends that you still hope to be able to chat with them regardless of what character or realm they are on. Is that a subtle hint that they might be happier on another realm? Not completely intentionally, but it sure would be nice if they took their funsucking ways elsewhere.
- If all else fails, force the issue. If your friends won't leave on their own accord, you need to end the guild relationship yourself. Hunter, just like parenting, punishment doesn't work unless you carry it out. You need to /gremove your friend if he won't remove himself. Druid, you and your boyfriend should find a new guild home. I know it's hard to give up a guild you created, but a guild is only as good as the guildies in it. Let your friends continue their reputation as selfish ninjas as they obviously want to do. The damage has already been done to your guild name anyway.
Drama Mama Lisa: The creators of so-called "guilds of friends" all too frequently assume that real-life relationships preclude the need for ground rules. BZZZZT -- aggro, aggro, the mob's right over there. Buckle down with the other officers and write up some basic guidelines for conduct and loot, including clear consequences for what happens when lines get crossed. Post these for everyone to see (you do have forums, right?) and then enforce them without regard to offline relationships. Druid, you've said your guild established rules -- so apply them! The alternative, as you've seen, is not pretty.Ultimately, this kerfuffle comes down to a lack of respect. If your friends wouldn't treat you this way to your face, why do they do it in game? It's not cute, and it's not funny. I realize that both of you, Hunter and Druid, are concerned about risking real-life friendships by addressing this situation. Unfortunately, I'd question whether those friendships are quite as solid as you'd thought, given these folks' utter disregard for your feelings and your hard work in the guild. If they can't wrap their brains around that, perhaps a little breathing room wouldn't be such a bad thing.
Drama Buster of the Week
If you are a guild officer or leader and are about to demote, kick or promote someone, warn guildchat before you do it. The impression people get from the action before you explain lingers on after even the most reasonable explanations. It can often mean the difference between zero drama and having to deal with a fracas caused by multiple kneejerk reactions.
Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at dramamamas@wow.com.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Jawn Jul 23rd 2010 2:19PM
"Unfortunately, I'd question whether those friendships are quite as solid as you'd thought, given these folks' utter disregard for your feelings and your hard work in the guild."
This. I'm sure a lot of people would be shocked to learn exactly how some the people they call friends really think/feel. If you are just someone there so that ~they~ can have a good time, it'll end up showing somewhere along the line in your relation with them. Even if it's something as silly-dumb as a game. WoW being a game is ~never~ an excuse for being inconsiderate. At least, not for people ~i'd~ like to have as friends.
Kylenne Jul 23rd 2010 3:01PM
In my experience, WoW (and the internet in general) has an uncanny way of exposing people's true colors. As someone wiser than me once said, it's how you behave when you think it doesn't matter that really shows your true character as a person.
Scooter Jul 23rd 2010 3:35PM
You've made a very "black and white" statement Kylenne. People are rarely so clean cut as they can be categorized in such a way. There are many things I just don't like about my friends. Just because I've said them out loud doesn't mean I think that's all there is to them. Hell, I encourage my friends to talk about me whether its good or bad things. It helps people get certain frustrations out of their system.
That being said Jawn does have a good point. WoW is not an excuse for being a jerk.
BooCat Jul 23rd 2010 3:49PM
I don't see why anyone need to invite a real life friend in a guild to begin with, unless they are bringing elite skills and a will to raid.
Hollow Leviathan Jul 23rd 2010 3:58PM
Boocat: Guilds are not merely bridges to raid epics for everyone.
BooCat Jul 23rd 2010 4:03PM
@Hollow Leviathan
If it's a raiding guild and your RL friend is not willing to raiding, there is no point of he/her being in the guild in the first place.
Kylenne Jul 23rd 2010 4:15PM
@Scooter: You're completely missing the point of what I said; there's nothing "black or white" to this, at all. The very real fact is that far too often, people online use the excuse "it's just the internet" to act like assholes because they don't understand or care that there are other human beings on the other side of the screen. There's no real consequences, after all (in their eyes, at least--for the people on the receiving end of their bad behavior, it's a much different story). On WoW, it can be even worse, because then you get the "lol it's a game" on top of the usual internet anonymity. It's the GIFT on steroids.
Hell, even if it's never happened to you personally in your circle of friends, all you need to do is hop in LFD for a few runs to see exactly that kind of mentality in action. Purple pixels tend to bring out the worst in people. I've had to drop more than one friendship (and one romantic relationship) because people I thought I knew better stirred up pointless drama, doing and saying things they never would in meatspace because they believed they'd get away with it, or it wasn't "important" (lol it's just a game).
There is no compartmentalizing behavior like that. Nobody's perfect, obviously. But life experience has taught me that if someone's the type of person to be abusive or shitty in one circumstance, they're generally going to behave that way elsewhere. I maintain that the best judge of a person's character is how they behave when no one's looking, when they think there's no consequences for what they do or say. That's when a lot of ugliness can come out about a person (or, conversely, a lot of unexpected kindness).
BB Crisp Jul 23rd 2010 8:26PM
"The true test of a man's character is what he does when no one is watching." - John Wooden
kia Jul 23rd 2010 8:26PM
@BooCat: never heard of social members? Even the most hardcore progression guilds on my server have ranks for friends and family, they aren't on the raiding roster but go along to guild 5-mans and maybe 10 mans or even farm 25 mans...
Killik Jul 24th 2010 3:59AM
If someone is going to stab you in the back over pixels in a computer game, can you trust them to be there for you when the chips are down IRL?
Pyromelter Jul 24th 2010 4:46AM
Boocat's point about a raiding guild, and having RL friends not willing to raid (or contribute to the guild in any way), is very relevant. Recently, the top guild on my server got LK 25Heroic (server first)... and no one gave them any respect or care. Why? Because their guild is infested with some friends and family type people who are some of the worst internet/mmo trolls I have ever seen. I'm actually quite ashamed that this guild will now be increased in world rankings because of the behavior of some of their members.
Here's my tip: If someone is acting in a way that makes you reasonably think they should go to hell, you should kick and ignore them. It's not worth it in a game to have to "put up" with any type of behavior like that. You're there to have fun, right? Part of being a guild leader/officer is to make some choices like that, and the more toxic the person is, the more difficult your life will be.
Scooter Jul 26th 2010 11:21AM
@Kylenne
I got the point. Just read the last line of my first reply. The internet promotes a very shallow way of thinking. The point I'm trying to make is don't fall into that same shallow mindset just because a friend or even a stranger is acting stupid. Yes, maybe you or your friends or whoever is complaining about your spec, gear, loot, etc. Maybe they aren't treating you with the usual respect, or simply acting out of control. What I want you and everyone else to realize is that there typically is more to those people than the internet will let you see. Perhaps so and so in your group is acting like a complete douche, but to completely judge someone through their actions in this one game is equally as shallow.
Would you be saying the same thing if that friend or loved one took a bullet for you the next day? I didn't think so.
The best way to combat the shallow actions and mindset of online gaming is to think critically about the matters at hand. Yes, in most cases these people are just griefing and there's nothing you can do about it, but when you can see these people in person you have a responsibility to them and yourself to seek solutions to your problems.
feniks9174 Jul 23rd 2010 2:25PM
My faith in humanity dies a little every time I hear about someone needing on greens because they "need epic flying". Guess what . . . Epic flight is a luxury item. A convenience. It is NOT a requirement to play the game effectively and it is NOT something your entitled to. I have 5 80's and only two of them have epic flight. The other three have Bronze Drakes sitting in their banks that they greed rolled on and cant use.
The same goes for lvl 18's begging for gold because they "need a mount". No, you don't. Level 1-40 zones were designed with the assumption that you would be walking everywhere.
James Jul 24th 2010 1:41AM
Never been to the barrens without a mount, eh? ;P
feniks9174 Jul 24th 2010 10:28AM
I have actually, several times.
Greeni Jul 24th 2010 11:15AM
On the no mount department...
I once ran (on my alliance character) from auburdene to gadgetzan because i had no FPs along the way. This was pre-BC. I had no mount. It took about half an hour.
NEVER accept the "need a mount" excuse.
slythwolf Jul 24th 2010 8:51PM
Nobody needs BOE greens to buy epic flight. I have ground it on two characters, one as soon as I hit 70, by taking two gathering professions. It's not difficult, it just takes some farming.
M S Sep 28th 2010 3:23PM
I have a simple response when someone is in trade or whispering me begging for gold.
"I have some gold for you. I left it with some NPC's. They are easy to find. Look for the ones with the '!' or '?' over their heads."
Seriously, with each expansion and most of the content patches, blizzard throws gold at you so even if you are pathologically incapable of questing, there are so many ways to make gold it's pathetic. "Hey, I'm too lazy to get my behind out of a city long enough to quest, can you give me some gold to feed my addiction to AH gear?" is not enough justification.
Toranja Jul 23rd 2010 2:26PM
I might be hotheaded...
After all those talks about behavior and stuff, if he doesn't realize he's being a absolute idiot, I wouldn't mind losing his friendship IRL and would just kick him.
On the guild chaos, I would just leave a MotD explaining the situation (trying to save a relationship/trying to not have a burnout due to drama) and /gquit. If there's harassment, I would transfer.
Rhabella Jul 23rd 2010 2:44PM
I think I have to agree with you. I often get berated for being unable to tolerate lazy folks at the office or friends of friends because I don’t like their behavior even though they are “good guys.” My personality matrix just won’t allow me to get past certain despicable qualities even if you are normally a good guy because I just think the ability to behave a certain way provides too much commentary on your character.