Upcoming level and zone changes in Cataclysm
by Mathew McCurley 
Jul 23rd 2010 at 1:00PM
Nethaera (Blizzard community representative) has posted some new, interesting information about the leveling experience in Cataclysm. Mount Hyjal and Vashj'ir, the two opening zones of the expansion, will now require level 80 to enter and begin questing in. Betas go through a lot of balance and experience tweaking, and this new change hints at some issues with the previous leveling curve. In addition, creatures' health pools have been increased with the new level restrictions, and level 80 is required to use the dungeon finder for the opening 5-man instances of the expansion, Throne of the Tides and Blackrock Caverns.
Nethaera -- Upcoming Level and Zone ChangesIn the next beta build the minimum level for entering and questing in Mount Hyjal and Vashj'ir will change from level 78 to level 80. All associated creature will have their levels increased to match the new flow.
Additionally, after careful review and consideration we've decided to increase the hit point values of level 80+ Cataclysm creatures. The new hit point values are roughly double their previous values.
Level 80 (OLD)
16400
Level 80 (NEW)
31000
Players will also now need to be level 80 in order to use the Dungeon Finder System for Throne of Tides and Blackrock Caverns.
Additionally, after careful review and consideration we've decided to increase the hit point values of level 80+ Cataclysm creatures. The new hit point values are roughly double their previous values.
Level 80 (OLD)
16400
Level 80 (NEW)
31000
Players will also now need to be level 80 in order to use the Dungeon Finder System for Throne of Tides and Blackrock Caverns.
Valnoth clarified some of Nethaera's announcement, stating that characters should be level 82 after finishing Hyjal or potentially a little higher if they choose to go the Vashj'ir route.
Valnoth -- Re: Upcoming Level and Zone Changes
Q u o t e:
This should be interesting considering my mage was fully rested well into 82, yet after finishing Hyjal he was only part way through 81, and thus had to complete a large portion of Vash'jr. Based on that, I was wondering how toons starting either zone at 78 would have enough quests to get to 82. Guess I don't have to worry anymore ;)
The experience curve is being tweaked so that you will be level 82 upon completing Hyjal. You will be a little over 82 if you opt to do Vashj'ir instead.
Please note that we are in the process of doing some cleanup and polish to both zones so you may very well see quests disappear.
Finally, Valnoth reiterated that you cannot enter Cataclysm zones until 80. Raid-geared level 80s will still be able to mow through the masses of creatures, while green-geared level 80s will be given a large ramp-up in power after the opening zones.
Valnoth -- Re: Upcoming Level and Zone Changes
Q u o t e:
Could Warriors get fixed so that we're not massively nerfed from live? I approve of the spirit of this change, as if I were doing the damage I'm doing on live, I'd be killing things very quickly. Turns out though, losing 100% armor pen and then a ton of strength turning into stamina (as well as Heroic Strike disappearing) results in a massive Warrior nerf.
As to the change in level, can a blue confirm whether it is intended for players to have to level to 80 to experience the new Cataclysm zones when the expansion drops? I feel as though the strength of BC and Wrath was that they allowed you to go to the next expansion earlier if you wanted, meaning that they lasted for 10 levels for both max level and under levelled characters that just wanted to move through.
I'm looking forward to the expansion to try and level some characters past the level 20 hump that I have (where I just really dislike all the zones in the old world), but the 3rd and 4th time through Northrend were really not that fun, and having to do 12 levels there just seems unnecessary.
First of all, this isn't the complain about your class thread, so if you feel the need to comment stick to the subject matter at hand.
Secondly, as the initial post indicated, you will not be able to quest in Mount Hyjal or Vashj'ir until level 80.
Valnoth -- Re: Upcoming Level and Zone Changes
Q u o t e:
can't complain because it took me two 1 second gcds to kill mobs with mangle and rake but its because I am really geared. I do however worry about my newly made alts who are going to get into the zone in full quest greens and have rough time doing it. are quest items from northrend good enough for the big health jump in hyjal?
The speed at which a green geared level 80 coming out of Northrend kills creatures in these zones is more in line with what we expect for and from combat times. Raid geared level 80s will still kill level 80 NPCs in under 10 seconds, but at least they will be able to fire off a few abilities before the creature is killed.
Furthermore, upon completion of the first series of quests in Hyjal or Vashj'ir, quest geared level 80 from Northrend should see a significant jump in power due to quest reward itemization.
With only five new levels added on to the game, Blizzard has distanced itself from The Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King models of allowing players two levels under the cap into the new expansion content. Previously, Hellfire Peninsula opened to players at 58, and Borean Tundra or Howling Fjord opened at 68. The decision to close Cataclysm to players under 80 seems like a necessary move to keep content tight in the new zones. Considering that Northrend is itemized already from 78-80, Blizzard can capitalize on the active content to move players into the new spaces.
Filed under: Cataclysm
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Johnny Jul 23rd 2010 1:05PM
The hitpoints are roughly doubled?!
Well, at least i'm not a squishy priest or mage.
Sunaseni Jul 23rd 2010 1:11PM
Pfft, 30k HP isn't enough to survive stacking Arcane Blast to 4. Maybe a Missile Barrage will go off to finish the job.
Moeru Jul 23rd 2010 1:12PM
Pyrewood Village before they nerfed it.
Now that was questing :D
Ysonia Jul 23rd 2010 1:20PM
Oh, man...those were the days, eh? Pyrewood Village is just not the same now that the mobs aren't elites. It definitely helps for classes that are trickier to solo, but in some ways, I miss being forced to group with others more often outside of the dungeon setting.
patsfan1663 Jul 23rd 2010 1:34PM
Mind flay. Mobs will never reach me, no reason to worry about priests.
devilsei Jul 23rd 2010 1:49PM
Yeah, I could go through Pyrewood village no problem on a level appropriate disc/holy spec priest no problem. Its called going along rooftops like a ninja and knowing what to pull. Was rather fun.
Qot Jul 23rd 2010 1:49PM
It won't matter much for me in my ele gear. For the ToC dailies I don't even use LvB anymore. LB, CL, loot. If I pull a second guy, yeah, maybe I'll Flame Shock-LvB, but even then it's really not necessary.
Alts, on the other hand, are going to get stomped. Honestly, with the exception of the first time I went through Northrend on my shaman (when I finished in Icecrown without touching Storm Peaks), I have yet to finish the Basin before hitting 80. Icecrown, Basin, Basin, Zul'Drak, Basin (skipping Zul'Drak entirely) and Grizzly Hills are where I dinged 80.
It puts alts in a real bind: do you go to Cataclysmic zones, grinding mobs with almost triple the HP (12k in Z'D to 31k in MH/V'J) but getting gear/weapons that will let you kill faster or do you head to Icecrown and get easier (but less) XP and mildly upgraded gear?
Clydtsdk-Rivendare Jul 23rd 2010 3:03PM
Frost mages. Need I say more?
(Although Arcane could probably pull some kind of Slow-MultiAB-AM/Abarr and have the mob dead, IDK)
Ysonia Jul 23rd 2010 3:39PM
@ Clydtsdk-Rivendare: Nah, my arcane mage can crit AB for over 17k so I don't even need to bother slowing or snaring the mob, usually. Her gear isn't that great, so I'm sure other mages can do even better.
Thyago Jul 27th 2010 8:40AM
Mage here. And oh, how I miss leveling builds. They are the funniest ones :D
Mike Jul 23rd 2010 1:11PM
I hope this is indication that Netherstrom/Shadowmoon Valley will be cleaned up in the future to level 68-70 easier (and likewise HellFire, Howling Fjord, and Borean Tundra made a little rougher so you'll actually want to be 60/70 to go there). This whole two-levels-below-old-cap thing was fine when the last two levels in the past expansion were supposed to take weeks to get through, but really doesn't apply anymore.
Necrotica Jul 23rd 2010 1:15PM
Really? I don't even finish the first 3 zones before I'm 68 and moving into Northrend. =)
Mike Jul 23rd 2010 1:20PM
Yes, that's exactly my point. They should retune the starting zone quests and mobs so that you have to be 70 before you go to Northrend. For those with XP heirlooms, this will probably still be three zones (Hellfire, Terrokar/Zangarmarsh, and Nagrand/Blades Edge). For those without will still have to move through and finish either Shadowmoon or Netherstrom. Currently, with heirlooms you can level 58-68 easy and only be halfway through Nagrand/Blades Edge, without you might have to do a couple quests in Shadowmoon/Netherstrom, but not much. In Cata, you'll still have to do most of Icecrown or Storm Peaks, even with heirlooms, to level to enter the new zones.
Note I'm also assuming old world zones will be tuned to level to 60, not 58.
SamLowry Jul 23rd 2010 3:35PM
If you do as many quests as you can in the Plaguelands and Winterspring, you could easily reach 63 before heading off to Hellfire. By the time you finish that and Zangarmarsh you should be within shouting distance of 68, even without the DF.
As a result, I have several 70s who set foot outside those initial two zones only to do holiday quests.
Blayze Jul 23rd 2010 4:38PM
Cleared as many quests as possible on my Paladin before leaving for Outland, didn't do a single dungeon -- level 65. Had I done it on my Death Knight, things would have been even more hilarious.
GormanGhaste Jul 23rd 2010 5:57PM
I usually wait until my alts are 60 before I go to Outland, just because I hate Hellfire. The only outland zones I end up questing in to any extent are Zangarmarsh and Nagrand.
icepyro Jul 23rd 2010 9:29PM
First, it's easy to get to 80 without a lot of Icecrown/Storm Peaks. My most recent 80 did all the Sons of Hodir questline after reaching 77 and then went to do the Argent Crusade quests to get the Pinnacle back and poof, 80.
Second, when Wrath came out (from what I hear), they nerfed experience in Outlands to allow the quick race into Northrend we enjoy today. I am pretty sure they are going to do this again when Cata comes out so that even with the requirement to be 80 to get into Cata, you will probably blaze through Northrend pretty quickly too. I suspect we will see people skipping Storm Peaks and Icecrown completely.
Third, with the gear scaling they seem to be going for, making a creature easy enough for a level 78 to accomplish a quest (heck we discovered the other day that my friends 80 DK still had lvl 72 gear when he dinged) yet hard enough an 81 doesn't one shot everything is a pretty tall order (someone pointed out that raid gear can already one shot stuff under old system). Given what I've seen so far, I'm still surprised any zone will involve more than one level.
TL;DR-
If you like Outland enough you want to stay until 70, you can still do that. As others here say, nothing stopping you from staying old world past 60 either (I may do that on the alt I'm leveling now actually). It's just not practical to do the whole 2-levels-below-cap thing when you want to only go 5 levels, 2 of which are in said starting area, and scale gear on such a steep curve.
Suzaku Jul 24th 2010 4:14AM
They may very well rebalance leveling in Outland and Northrend, as they've expressed some disappointment that many players reach max level before reaching the "storyline culmination" zones like Netherstorm, Shadowmoon Valley, Storm Peaks, and Icecrown. As a result, many players don't quest in those zones at all and miss out on a lot of content.
We'll see. I know for a fact that they're trying to avoid that in Cataclysm's new zones, at the very least.
Para Jul 24th 2010 11:01PM
I normally went to hellfire at lvl 56, grinding mobs was the fastest way to lvl by a mile, sure you missed a lot of spells at 56 but it still worked out best grinding off the ocs near the catapults.
Babaloo Jul 23rd 2010 1:12PM
Double the hitpoints? Wow, we must be able to do a hell lot more damage in Cataclysm than we can do now. The jump seems a bit extreme from my point of view. Also, this'll mean we'll be able to solo a lot more old content than before, considering now how we'll have much more HP and (Theoretically) DPS than before. Also, how will this affect Northrend dungeons and raids? If they expect us to do like double the damage from Northrend Greens to Cataclysm Greens, that must mean a lot about how much more powerful we're getting.