Drama Mamas: Too sexy for your group
NSFW warning: Video may be slightly NSFW (bikinis and shirtless guys).
Drama Mamas Lisa Poisso and Robin Torres are experienced gamers and real-life mamas -- and just as we don't want our precious babies to be the ones kicking and wailing on the floor of checkout lane next to the candy, neither do we want you to become known as That Guy on your realm.
Does Right Said Fred hold the answer to the latest WoW drama? This week, the Drama Mamas help a frustrated player who can't figure out why so many of her groupmates seem to feel they're simply too sexy for their groups.
To my dearest Drama Mamas,
In a random heroic I did earlier, I kept getting prompted to kick members of my party. I saw nothing wrong with the way these players were performing, and I always voted against it. After it happened again, I asked my party why there were so many random kick attempts. I was told by a hunter in my party that the tank, who was in a guild with the hunter, was being an ass and that it was funny, after which the tank sent a smiley face in party chat. I did not say anything further and continued healing, only to be kicked a minute later. Oh, did I mention we were in the middle of Falric?
Was I right to question why there were so many kick attempts? Is there anything I could have done to avoid this situation? It seems like kick abuse is happening more and more frequently. It is not uncommon for me to be in a party where a tank or DPS will start a vote simply because that player won a piece of gear they wanted; I have even been in groups where a member has started a vote to kick a player who is pumping out higher DPS.
Under what conditions is it acceptable to kick a player? I myself only start votes when a character is being obscene or offensive, or is just plain bad. I always give the player ample warning in the case of foul language before I vote to kick. With "bad" players, I only vote to kick if they affect the survivability of our group, and always with warning.
If you could clarify some of this for me, I would appreciate it.
Cordially yours,
Sick-of-vote-to-kick-abuse
As you may suspect, a lot of vote-kicking isn't at all about the player who gets kicked. Like Right Said Fred, vote-kickers are making a statement: "We're too sexy for this group -- but instead of heading for greener (and more elite) pastures, we're going to kick you instead." Vote-kicking has become a way for players to establish themselves as the cool kids on the block, the ones who are smarter, better, faster – and far, far too sexy to be slowed down by interacting with other players.
I don't think there's much of a question that kick abuse exists. What's made it such an aggravating situation are the complacent groupmates who agree to a vote-kick without a second thought. ("Well, somebody must have a problem with this guy, so whatever ...") The solution? What you might call the Grow Some Principles.
- Stop the steamroller by sticking your neck out and asking for the reason behind a vote to kick. (Grow some.) If the subject does deserve a vote-kick, perhaps he'll learn something from the experience; if he doesn't, it'll expose who's being the real ass in this situation.
- Don't go along with vote-kicking players who aren't actually disrupting your group. (Grow some.)
- Make a distinction between "bad" players and "unacceptable" players. A player's playstyle or behavior may grate on your nerves, but unless it's actually sabotaging the group's success, handle it. (Grow some.)
- Your line in the sand between what's "bad" and what's "unacceptable" may be different from that of your groupmates. Think it through, stand by your guns and don't be bullied into kicking someone who doesn't deserve it. (Grow some.)
- Realize that a geared, skilled player has no more "right" to a group than a less-geared, less-skilled player. (I didn't say "unacceptably geared or skilled;" discernment, people, discernment.) Grouping isn't about coasting through on the backs of players whose play is so perfectly tuned that the group becomes seemingly effortless (although it's a nice treat when it happens, eh?); it's about adapting to and working with others to accomplish a common goal. If you can't hold up your end of the bargain, don't group. (Grow some.)
As one perceptive WoW.com commenter noted on another post, "If you vote to kick out of reflex or just to clear the box off your screen -- you are lowering your reputation AND your ability to kick in the future." Don't be a pushover. (Grow some.) Oh, and if you run into Right Said Fred trying to bully others from your group -- let him know he's the one who's simply too sexy for your group ... with a nice, sexy boot of his own.
Be sure to keep your end of this interaction classy and calm. While I do think that you should speak up, ask why and explain your position on the matter, I don't think that telling Mr. Cool Guy that he's the problem is going to get you anywhere. Yes, stand up for what you believe in (briefly), but no, don't get into it with Mr. Epeen Comparer. You aren't going to convince him, and any debate is going to just waste everyone's time and energy. You know you're right. We know you're right. The people in your group who aren't part of the No-One-Wants-Me-in-Their-Real-Life-Clique-so-I-am-a-Bully-in-the-Virtual-World Gang know you're right, too. So why belabor the point?
There is a simple and speedy formula to follow when a vote-kick box pops up:
- Do you not know why? Ask.
- Do you agree? Vote yes.
- Do you disagree? Vote no and explain why succinctly and as non-confrontationally as possible.
If things get nasty and you have to leave (voluntarily or not), don't dwell on it. Just re-queue when you can and move on with your fun. Also, put Mr. Elite Inhisownmind on ignore so you never have to group with him again.
Drama buster of the week
It's one of the Drama Mamas' main rules to play WoW by: You can't "fix" other players. If you can't beat 'em ... unjoin 'em. Don't be too stubborn to drop a group that's just no fun. Keep it simple, keep it classy -- and keep it fun.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
Patch 5.3 interview with Ghostcrawler
Mystery of the Unborn Val'kyr
The latest patch 5.3 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria news





Reader Comments (Page 3 of 7)
vazhkatsi Jul 30th 2010 4:32PM
what annoys me is that blizz did that whole thing where you have to supposedly fillout a reason box to kick someone, and then they failed to implement it. so now the reason is always blank, if i knew how to fill it in i would.
Tri Jul 30th 2010 8:11PM
Yeah, i've been wondering about that one too...
iceveiled Jul 30th 2010 4:35PM
Do what I do in PUGS...keep your head up and your mouth shut (greetings and parting kind words are fine). The less you talk, the less drama you invite. I'm there for emblems, and gear, not small talk. Seems to work okay for me.
shawn Jul 30th 2010 6:14PM
^this
ThatOneChick Jul 30th 2010 4:40PM
Homestar Runner reference=win
Kurash Jul 30th 2010 5:34PM
"They've stolen my poopsmith!!"
Haha, I love that website.
Noyou Jul 30th 2010 4:40PM
Sick- you definitely did the right thing and should be applauded for it. Too many times people are too tolerant of a-hole behavior. I'm not saying you have to be confrontational and clearly you were not. But first things first. It's a game. It's supposed to be fun and not an epeen fest. Instead of Real ID I wish blizzard would work on a dungeon finder rating system where you can +/- someone and have that added to a global friends list. I'm sure this would take a lot of resources and may not be entirely feasible. But it sure would be damn cool to hit people up cross realm and run things without having to hand out any real life info.
ATechRevolution Jul 30th 2010 4:40PM
To me, every time you said Grow Some, it sounded... wrong. Say it out loud a couple times (or if you're like me, just reading it in your head will do it), and it sounds a lot like gruesome. Not trying to correct or flame anyone, but I hear "Grow a pair" a lot more than I hear Grow Some. Actually, exclusively to Grow Some.
Otherwise, good article.
(cutaia) Jul 30th 2010 4:45PM
Grow some.
Al Jul 30th 2010 5:05PM
I prefer "Man Up", but that might not be neutral enough.
(cutaia) Jul 30th 2010 5:25PM
Haha...neither are very gender neutral. But they still pretty much get the point across. :P
ATechRevolution Aug 1st 2010 7:12PM
*frown* I'm confused on the epic downrate, I was more expecting the post to just stay white.
Whatever, I guess that (on this column), stating a thought that in no way insults anybody, especially the writers, is a bad thought if its not OMFGZ GROW SUM! (because every other post I see where the two words are put together is bright blue...)
I knew there was a reason I didn't read this column. Thought it was cos I wasn't interested, now I know it's because the people that are interested aren't people that I'm interested in going out of my way to share something with.
Wildebeast Jul 30th 2010 4:52PM
Two ways the advice ('grow some') doesnt help:
1) 20-30 minute queue times on my server as dps role, someone plays around they just wasted 40min. - 1 hour of your time if you choose to queue again. It is absurd that anyone has that much control of a situation.
2) If you do 'grow some' that can be a sure fire way to get kicked yourself, the math does not work out. 1 target + 1 defender = minority in a group of 5, in turn resulting in getting yourself kicked and back to the INCOMPREHENSIBLE queue time again.
What is wrong with incentivising tanking randoms? They incentivised the role all together with the dawn of Fail Knights (DKs) tanking in any spec and are revoking that. I would rather wipe a few extra times with a horribly incompetent group than stand in Dalaran and be subject to anal [Whirlwind], Chuck Norris' beard hides a 3rd fist? REALLY? ... REALLY?, and 'pallies are soo lame, they are the only class that can tank, heal, and dps' for upwards of 30 minutes.
Honestly everyone, the solution I have found that keeps the game more enjoyable is to pay for tanking services, that way the tank knows that you may be undergeared, practiced, or whatever; and you have a friend in your corner when vote kicking starts lighting up the stage. pay 25g (you make more from the random) and be done with it. 25g is FAR less value than two extra badges when you are at certain gear levels.
Much love for Robin and Lisa, you two are definetly a great help to our gaming community even if indirectly through the actions of inspiried readers.
Nathan Gately
P.S. I want real name ID tags on forums... like yesterday. And I didn't edit this, sorry grammar police.
Ronin Jul 30th 2010 5:02PM
So we shouldn't speak up in the face of such abuse, because it might then be aimed at us? Sorry, but that's _exactly_ the kind of fearful response that not only allows, but empowers this kind of bullying.
If you lack the afore-mentioned "some", then so be it. But trying to justify going along with the bullies because of that fear is FTL. Either grow some, or don't, but to take the next step and whisper to others "don't make him mad, he might beat us up next" makes you an active participant in the abuse IMO.
Brett Jul 30th 2010 5:09PM
Dang it, Ronin beat me to it. I was going to say something similar so I'll keep it short. When you don't speak out, you are succumbing to bullies, and empowering them to be more bully-ish. You're telling them, in being as submissive as possible, that what you're doing is OK, so you should do it more, cuz it is apparently working.
Folks do that in real life, so that do it in game. I have no fear of being booted for sticking up for someone, and it has happened before. I also have no problem with dropping group, if that means not having to deal with jerks and bullies.
If you're not having fun with a game, do something different! Being in a group like that isn't fun for me, and I'd prefer to do something fun, even if that means moving over to another toon for a bit, or even logging out for an hour or so.
Sebastien of IcftB
Wildebeast Jul 30th 2010 5:18PM
@Ronin - I'm not sure what you mean by giving in. I proposed my personal solution to avoiding a kick happy pug by reccomending you 'hire the tank', or in essence 'bring a friend'. I also said I would rather wipe several times with less skilled or geared persons than wait in queue.
I see how my message could be misinterpretted, it wasn't written clearly, but in other words I would rather not kick anyone at all and just brute force my way through a dungeon. Please don't mistake my silence in a PuG for acceptance of the bullying or fear of retribution. In better terms I meant to imply that I am not vocal so as to not escalate the tension. Bullies usually want an audience and I say dont give them one. Path of least resistance is not always fighitng fire with fire, sometimes you have to listen to be heard.
Ronin Jul 30th 2010 5:49PM
The first half of your post spoke against "growing some". Whether you meant to or not, you perfectly expressed the attitude that allows bullying-via-votekick. That's what I responded to. (The second half proposed a "solution" that doesn't deal with the problem so much as ensure you won't have to face it.)
I accept your statement that you could've expressed yourself better, however.
SamLowry Jul 30th 2010 6:12PM
Uh, folks, Wildebeast isn't just a bully, he's an extortionist. Demanding 25g so he won't vote to kick you? If you've been following the WikiLeaks story recently, you'd think he was trying out for the Afghan police.
Ronin Jul 30th 2010 6:16PM
@SamLowry, in his defense, that would only be true if Wildebeast were the tank in question.
SamLowry Jul 30th 2010 6:37PM
Reread his posts. He never says he hasn't done that.