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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsDrama Mamas: Too sexy for your group
by Lisa Poisso 
Jul 30th 2010 at 4:00PM
NSFW warning: Video may be slightly NSFW (bikinis and shirtless guys).
Drama Mamas Lisa Poisso and Robin Torres are experienced gamers and real-life mamas -- and just as we don't want our precious babies to be the ones kicking and wailing on the floor of checkout lane next to the candy, neither do we want you to become known as That Guy on your realm.
Does Right Said Fred hold the answer to the latest WoW drama? This week, the Drama Mamas help a frustrated player who can't figure out why so many of her groupmates seem to feel they're simply too sexy for their groups.
To my dearest Drama Mamas,
In a random heroic I did earlier, I kept getting prompted to kick members of my party. I saw nothing wrong with the way these players were performing, and I always voted against it. After it happened again, I asked my party why there were so many random kick attempts. I was told by a hunter in my party that the tank, who was in a guild with the hunter, was being an ass and that it was funny, after which the tank sent a smiley face in party chat. I did not say anything further and continued healing, only to be kicked a minute later. Oh, did I mention we were in the middle of Falric?
Was I right to question why there were so many kick attempts? Is there anything I could have done to avoid this situation? It seems like kick abuse is happening more and more frequently. It is not uncommon for me to be in a party where a tank or DPS will start a vote simply because that player won a piece of gear they wanted; I have even been in groups where a member has started a vote to kick a player who is pumping out higher DPS.
Under what conditions is it acceptable to kick a player? I myself only start votes when a character is being obscene or offensive, or is just plain bad. I always give the player ample warning in the case of foul language before I vote to kick. With "bad" players, I only vote to kick if they affect the survivability of our group, and always with warning.
If you could clarify some of this for me, I would appreciate it.
Cordially yours,
Sick-of-vote-to-kick-abuse
Drama Mama Lisa: Sick, I share your pain. Despite efforts from Blizzard to control the vote-kick epidemic that's sweeping the dungeon finder, the option to "boot" groupmates has made it all too easy for players who are a little too big for their britches to domineer groups with their petty posturing.As you may suspect, a lot of vote-kicking isn't at all about the player who gets kicked. Like Right Said Fred, vote-kickers are making a statement: "We're too sexy for this group -- but instead of heading for greener (and more elite) pastures, we're going to kick you instead." Vote-kicking has become a way for players to establish themselves as the cool kids on the block, the ones who are smarter, better, faster – and far, far too sexy to be slowed down by interacting with other players.
I don't think there's much of a question that kick abuse exists. What's made it such an aggravating situation are the complacent groupmates who agree to a vote-kick without a second thought. ("Well, somebody must have a problem with this guy, so whatever ...") The solution? What you might call the Grow Some Principles.
- Stop the steamroller by sticking your neck out and asking for the reason behind a vote to kick. (Grow some.) If the subject does deserve a vote-kick, perhaps he'll learn something from the experience; if he doesn't, it'll expose who's being the real ass in this situation.
- Don't go along with vote-kicking players who aren't actually disrupting your group. (Grow some.)
- Make a distinction between "bad" players and "unacceptable" players. A player's playstyle or behavior may grate on your nerves, but unless it's actually sabotaging the group's success, handle it. (Grow some.)
- Your line in the sand between what's "bad" and what's "unacceptable" may be different from that of your groupmates. Think it through, stand by your guns and don't be bullied into kicking someone who doesn't deserve it. (Grow some.)
- Realize that a geared, skilled player has no more "right" to a group than a less-geared, less-skilled player. (I didn't say "unacceptably geared or skilled;" discernment, people, discernment.) Grouping isn't about coasting through on the backs of players whose play is so perfectly tuned that the group becomes seemingly effortless (although it's a nice treat when it happens, eh?); it's about adapting to and working with others to accomplish a common goal. If you can't hold up your end of the bargain, don't group. (Grow some.)
As one perceptive WoW.com commenter noted on another post, "If you vote to kick out of reflex or just to clear the box off your screen -- you are lowering your reputation AND your ability to kick in the future." Don't be a pushover. (Grow some.) Oh, and if you run into Right Said Fred trying to bully others from your group -- let him know he's the one who's simply too sexy for your group ... with a nice, sexy boot of his own.
Drama Mama Robin: Sick, you did and believe the right thing. If random or bullying vote-kicks are fun to your current group, then do you really want to extend your time with those people? Following Lisa's advice on the first vote would have most likely made you the next to go, and I think that's OK. It's not like it's hard to get another group these days. We aren't at the mercy of these wannabe cool guys anymore.Be sure to keep your end of this interaction classy and calm. While I do think that you should speak up, ask why and explain your position on the matter, I don't think that telling Mr. Cool Guy that he's the problem is going to get you anywhere. Yes, stand up for what you believe in (briefly), but no, don't get into it with Mr. Epeen Comparer. You aren't going to convince him, and any debate is going to just waste everyone's time and energy. You know you're right. We know you're right. The people in your group who aren't part of the No-One-Wants-Me-in-Their-Real-Life-Clique-so-I-am-a-Bully-in-the-Virtual-World Gang know you're right, too. So why belabor the point?
There is a simple and speedy formula to follow when a vote-kick box pops up:
- Do you not know why? Ask.
- Do you agree? Vote yes.
- Do you disagree? Vote no and explain why succinctly and as non-confrontationally as possible.
If things get nasty and you have to leave (voluntarily or not), don't dwell on it. Just re-queue when you can and move on with your fun. Also, put Mr. Elite Inhisownmind on ignore so you never have to group with him again.
Drama buster of the week
It's one of the Drama Mamas' main rules to play WoW by: You can't "fix" other players. If you can't beat 'em ... unjoin 'em. Don't be too stubborn to drop a group that's just no fun. Keep it simple, keep it classy -- and keep it fun.
Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at dramamamas@wow.com.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 7)
SamLowry Jul 30th 2010 6:41PM
You gotta love the wow.com boards: Wildebeast gets voted down for espousing extortion, and I get voted down for calling him out.
fireflyoftheearth Jul 30th 2010 6:41PM
I truly cannot understand the idea of paying someone to be your tank. I know that queuing as DPS means a much longer wait time than queuing as a Tank or Healer. Even as a Healer the wait time can be long-ish waiting for a tank. Having leveled a couple of toons through the Dungeon Finder this can be arduous to say the least.
However, paying a tank to tag along with you isn't necessarily the answer either. Kicking someone who's DCd and hasn't come back after the unspoken 5 minute-ish rule is safe. An AFKer who hasn't come back in a decent amount of time will also solicit a vote to kick. But to idly sit back and let this kind of behavior continue is absurd. I realize as a DPS I often am unwilling to wait out the queue time (unless I group with a friend who's a healer and/or tank) so I fully understand why waiting sucks so much. It does. Especially if you decide to quest or do dailies and you've got 30 seconds to accept so you're mad-dashing to finish whatever you're doing to accept the invite. In no way is "pay for a tank" the answer. But that's just me.
Kevin Jul 31st 2010 6:25AM
@SamLowry No, Wildebeast got voted down for speaking against "growing some" and you got voted down for reading comprehension fail.
SamLowry Jul 31st 2010 10:17PM
Sigh, why do I even bother? As I said before, read his posts--he's the one who says the best way to avoid getting kicked is to buy the tank off for 25g (which is NOT cheaper than what you might gain from doing the instance), yet that still won't save you if the three other players decide they don't like putting up with you. So do you pay off two group members then?
zdave Jul 30th 2010 5:04PM
I always feel like the vote kick is broken, or maybe I just don't understand how it works. How many votes does it take to boot somebody? Often, I vote 'no' and the kick still goes through. I was under the impression that it takes 3 votes afte the kick initiation; essentially 4 votes. Can somebody shed some light? Or point me in the direction of the light shed?
Avan Jul 30th 2010 6:27PM
Majority wins.
The person who starts the kick counts as YES.
The person who is being voted on counts as NO.
That leaves three people in the group with the vote.
For the vote to pass, 2 of the 3 have to vote YES for the kick to pass.
zdave Jul 30th 2010 7:14PM
I see. Thank you very much.
Ronin Jul 30th 2010 5:04PM
This is why you don't give the community the ability to police itself. There will always be more adolescents willing to abuse whatever tool you give them, and plenty more who will go along out of fear or because they think it's "funny", than mature people who are actually willing to use the feature appropriately.
It's sad, but it's the truth.
zdave Jul 30th 2010 5:11PM
Also, major props for the H*R reference. Many a high school night were spent watching SBemails.
zdave Jul 30th 2010 5:12PM
D'oh....Meant to reply to my own comment. I fail.
fireflyoftheearth Jul 30th 2010 6:44PM
Too bad there couldn't be another way to get rid of DC/AFKd players. But you're absolutely right.
PirateHunter Jul 30th 2010 5:08PM
I don't know if its just me, but I don't see a lot of kick-abuse. Admittedly, I'm not chain-running heroics, but most of the randoms I've done have been uninteresting in the extreme. Barely a hello and goodbye from anyone these days. Occasionally someone will pipe up with a 'I've just dinged, my dps/healing/tanking sucks, please don't kick me' so I guess it does go on. As most heroics are 2-manable, or possibly soloable, I don't see the point kicking people with low level gear just because you can.
artifex Jul 30th 2010 5:33PM
Speaking of "grow some," I'm going to actually start votes in the future when someone queues as tanks or heals and immediately (before the first trash pull) asks someone else to switch roles to cover them. No more tolerating queue jumpers, especially when I'm on lowbie alts, because those queues are even longer.
PirateHunter Jul 30th 2010 6:57PM
Excellent plan. I'm trying to level a priest, and there is nothing more annoying than wiping really soon into a 5-man cause the 'tank' is a ret pally or a dps dk. Conversation generally goes along the lines of:
'WTF healer?'
'Tank was taking massive damage'
'oh, yeah, and wheres your shield, pally?'
'I'm ret, but I can tank, really'
/sigh
Arbolamante Jul 30th 2010 5:38PM
I got kicked for the first time the other day. I was on my 'lock, and we got HoR. I've done HoR with him several times and gotten the speed achievement. I was booted before we even started (but after of course I'd wasted a couple pots). The only think I can think of is they didn't like my gear score. Come on, HoR used to be scary, but unless you get people who are really fresh out of the box, you don't have to be in ICC gear to finish it. It's really not that hard. Asking me if I'd done it before I guess was too much trouble.
omedon666 Jul 30th 2010 5:51PM
My crew (altoholics who take turns on various roles, chain run 5-mans all night and love it) have some very simple rules:
1) don't queue with less than 3 people
2) don't kick for performance, performance can be learned.
3) absolutely kick for abusive attitude/behavior, unless it can be fixed by /ignore. Sometimes 2 bleeds into 3 when we try to politely help, unfortunately.
Good, mature people using the same rules that the bad, immature people abuse can lead to a better instancing experience.
omedon666 Jul 30th 2010 5:57PM
Also, we open every heroic we have PUGs in with a polite macro:
"Hey all, please don't mind if we're kind of quiet, most of us are in vent here :)" , which is true, and acconplishes two things.
Politely, it does address the "left out" feeling I've experienced many times, being the only one not in vent.
Proactively, it informs in subtext: we can kick, you can't, be nice, because we shall be unless you are cruel and mean.
It almost always works, and when it doesn't, well, we have the majority, and are reasonable and responsible with it (see above rules).
psychoticdream Jul 30th 2010 5:51PM
lol
i've been votekicked as a war for having 4500 Gear score on a normal (not heroic) lvl 80 forge of souls, trial of the champion (5man) and pit of saron despite being top dps of group and not stealing aggro from tank
Randomize Jul 30th 2010 6:01PM
I usually don't ever experience trouble in my battlegroup, usually each run is smooth, fast, and silent. But I guess the people that act in this immature manner are levelers. I went into Dire Maul east as a dps, and the run went fine. Then the warrior tank starts needing on every single item, from a leather caster helm to the living essences. And this guy was level 60, running in full t1 on a vanilla account for twinking.
I would have mentioned it, but I knew all the other people were from the same server, so I didn't know what would happen. But another dps starts noticing it and mentioned it, with the warrior replying, "I do it because I can" On a piece of junk plate chest, the tank rolls again and the dps rolls as well, neither of them needing it but the dps replying, " I can sell it as well" The tank has the audacity to call the dps a ninja and starts a vote-kick. It fails, then later I find out he also tried to kick me as well, which failed as well. The tank and healer dropped group and we requeued, glad to be away from them.
Just goes to show you that people can be a-holes quite a bit, you just have to stand up to there bullying, even if it gives you another 15 minute wait.
SamLowry Jul 30th 2010 7:00PM
DF came out when most of my alts were in their 60s, and every single time I entered a BC pug the group was flaky as heck. I didn't know if it was because they were new players who didn't know that, for example, going afk without telling us was a bad idea (especially if it's the healer), or perhaps they were experienced players on alts who figured their braindead and/or drunken behavior could never be traced back to their mains.
And yes, tank/healer pair bonds are the worst. They're almost always undergeared and wipes are sure to follow. Whenever my raiding alt gets sucked into one of these doomed groups, about the only way he can dial down his dps enough to avoid drawing constant aggro is to equip an Argent Lance.