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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsDrama Mamas: Too sexy for your group
by Lisa Poisso 
Jul 30th 2010 at 4:00PM
NSFW warning: Video may be slightly NSFW (bikinis and shirtless guys).
Drama Mamas Lisa Poisso and Robin Torres are experienced gamers and real-life mamas -- and just as we don't want our precious babies to be the ones kicking and wailing on the floor of checkout lane next to the candy, neither do we want you to become known as That Guy on your realm.
Does Right Said Fred hold the answer to the latest WoW drama? This week, the Drama Mamas help a frustrated player who can't figure out why so many of her groupmates seem to feel they're simply too sexy for their groups.
To my dearest Drama Mamas,
In a random heroic I did earlier, I kept getting prompted to kick members of my party. I saw nothing wrong with the way these players were performing, and I always voted against it. After it happened again, I asked my party why there were so many random kick attempts. I was told by a hunter in my party that the tank, who was in a guild with the hunter, was being an ass and that it was funny, after which the tank sent a smiley face in party chat. I did not say anything further and continued healing, only to be kicked a minute later. Oh, did I mention we were in the middle of Falric?
Was I right to question why there were so many kick attempts? Is there anything I could have done to avoid this situation? It seems like kick abuse is happening more and more frequently. It is not uncommon for me to be in a party where a tank or DPS will start a vote simply because that player won a piece of gear they wanted; I have even been in groups where a member has started a vote to kick a player who is pumping out higher DPS.
Under what conditions is it acceptable to kick a player? I myself only start votes when a character is being obscene or offensive, or is just plain bad. I always give the player ample warning in the case of foul language before I vote to kick. With "bad" players, I only vote to kick if they affect the survivability of our group, and always with warning.
If you could clarify some of this for me, I would appreciate it.
Cordially yours,
Sick-of-vote-to-kick-abuse
Drama Mama Lisa: Sick, I share your pain. Despite efforts from Blizzard to control the vote-kick epidemic that's sweeping the dungeon finder, the option to "boot" groupmates has made it all too easy for players who are a little too big for their britches to domineer groups with their petty posturing.As you may suspect, a lot of vote-kicking isn't at all about the player who gets kicked. Like Right Said Fred, vote-kickers are making a statement: "We're too sexy for this group -- but instead of heading for greener (and more elite) pastures, we're going to kick you instead." Vote-kicking has become a way for players to establish themselves as the cool kids on the block, the ones who are smarter, better, faster – and far, far too sexy to be slowed down by interacting with other players.
I don't think there's much of a question that kick abuse exists. What's made it such an aggravating situation are the complacent groupmates who agree to a vote-kick without a second thought. ("Well, somebody must have a problem with this guy, so whatever ...") The solution? What you might call the Grow Some Principles.
- Stop the steamroller by sticking your neck out and asking for the reason behind a vote to kick. (Grow some.) If the subject does deserve a vote-kick, perhaps he'll learn something from the experience; if he doesn't, it'll expose who's being the real ass in this situation.
- Don't go along with vote-kicking players who aren't actually disrupting your group. (Grow some.)
- Make a distinction between "bad" players and "unacceptable" players. A player's playstyle or behavior may grate on your nerves, but unless it's actually sabotaging the group's success, handle it. (Grow some.)
- Your line in the sand between what's "bad" and what's "unacceptable" may be different from that of your groupmates. Think it through, stand by your guns and don't be bullied into kicking someone who doesn't deserve it. (Grow some.)
- Realize that a geared, skilled player has no more "right" to a group than a less-geared, less-skilled player. (I didn't say "unacceptably geared or skilled;" discernment, people, discernment.) Grouping isn't about coasting through on the backs of players whose play is so perfectly tuned that the group becomes seemingly effortless (although it's a nice treat when it happens, eh?); it's about adapting to and working with others to accomplish a common goal. If you can't hold up your end of the bargain, don't group. (Grow some.)
As one perceptive WoW.com commenter noted on another post, "If you vote to kick out of reflex or just to clear the box off your screen -- you are lowering your reputation AND your ability to kick in the future." Don't be a pushover. (Grow some.) Oh, and if you run into Right Said Fred trying to bully others from your group -- let him know he's the one who's simply too sexy for your group ... with a nice, sexy boot of his own.
Drama Mama Robin: Sick, you did and believe the right thing. If random or bullying vote-kicks are fun to your current group, then do you really want to extend your time with those people? Following Lisa's advice on the first vote would have most likely made you the next to go, and I think that's OK. It's not like it's hard to get another group these days. We aren't at the mercy of these wannabe cool guys anymore.Be sure to keep your end of this interaction classy and calm. While I do think that you should speak up, ask why and explain your position on the matter, I don't think that telling Mr. Cool Guy that he's the problem is going to get you anywhere. Yes, stand up for what you believe in (briefly), but no, don't get into it with Mr. Epeen Comparer. You aren't going to convince him, and any debate is going to just waste everyone's time and energy. You know you're right. We know you're right. The people in your group who aren't part of the No-One-Wants-Me-in-Their-Real-Life-Clique-so-I-am-a-Bully-in-the-Virtual-World Gang know you're right, too. So why belabor the point?
There is a simple and speedy formula to follow when a vote-kick box pops up:
- Do you not know why? Ask.
- Do you agree? Vote yes.
- Do you disagree? Vote no and explain why succinctly and as non-confrontationally as possible.
If things get nasty and you have to leave (voluntarily or not), don't dwell on it. Just re-queue when you can and move on with your fun. Also, put Mr. Elite Inhisownmind on ignore so you never have to group with him again.
Drama buster of the week
It's one of the Drama Mamas' main rules to play WoW by: You can't "fix" other players. If you can't beat 'em ... unjoin 'em. Don't be too stubborn to drop a group that's just no fun. Keep it simple, keep it classy -- and keep it fun.
Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at dramamamas@wow.com.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas
Reader Comments (Page 5 of 7)
fireflyoftheearth Jul 30th 2010 6:12PM
As a healer (or as a tank) it's almost always a pretty easy queue. So even if you're grinding heroics to get Triumph emblems, it goes quickly for those two classes (at least with my battlegroup it did). I'm surprised that as a newly turned 80 healer I didn't get vote-kicked more often with such a pathetic gearscore and all.
Now I find I'm in groups with new 80's who all have very low gearscores. Lemme tell you, some of these groups will run me the hell outta mana, but I, personally, have never kicked just because. Now if you're not a tank and pulling, and doing it after you've been asked to stop, votekick. Sometimes the ePeen problem is really... guh.
Orion Jul 30th 2010 6:26PM
I generally never start a vote kick on my own, unless a player goes offline, in which case I start a vote(unless someone else did).
In the case of bad players, it depends on the severity. A Retribution Paladin with Righteous Fury? I'm going to ask why, and politely ask him to turn it off. A Hunter with no pet? Again, I'm going to ask why, politely tell him some advice.
But on the topic of advice, I'm still wondering which is best. Saying it in /party, or whispering it to said bad player/ Whispering is private, so he doesn't get angry with me making his small failure public, but saying it in /party means the others players can give him advice as well.
Unfortunately, most other players aren't as polite or nice as me(sorry to sound like I'm bragging), so it may end in them teasing the bad player. If only this column was required reading for joining a LFG queue.
Off topic, I can't believe I just wrote that.
Avan Jul 30th 2010 6:47PM
I can start kicks in the middle of combat, on players who are online and also in combat. I also tend to bring a friend or two along for randoms (as a healer, it's also a shorter queue for them). We tend to chat in vent or a chat channel, too.
All of this adds up to one thing: I can kick anyone, at any time.
But I don't. I can kick people any time I want for a reason, and I'm not going to abuse that power. That said, my friends and I have some rules about who we kick:
Are you being an elitist prick? I don't care if you've got a 7k gear score, I don't care if you've downed 25man H LK, and I don't care if you're 90% of the damage on a fight. If you're going to be an ass to everyone else in the group, then you're gone.
Are you trying to grief? If you're a ret pally tank, and trying to just run through the first dozen pulls to get people killed, then you're gone. Oh, and I'll report you to the GMs.
Are you a foul-mouthed beast? Go ahead, be a bigot. Harass other players. You'll be gone in no time. And again, you're being reported to the GMs for your deeds.
Basically, play nice and you'll get to see the end of instance. If you don't, then you're going out at a time most convenient to both myself and the rest of the group. I might start the kick just before the boss dies, so that you get kicked just after getting saved, but without getting any loot. I might start the kick just before a spot where you'd try to wipe the group. I might even do everyone a favor and start the kick the moment I see trouble.
Shoikler Jul 30th 2010 6:48PM
As others have said, I've almost never used it for anything except a disconnected player, and a lot of those I've felt really bad about. I'm generally reluctant, even for atrocious behavior.
My worst Vote to Kick story was pretty recent. I was on my paladin tank and got a group in heroic Halls of Stone. We had two wipes and a near-wipe by the time we got to the intersection of the wings. The first (on the third trash pull) was because the healer wasn't ready -- we honestly thought he'd disconnected until he came back demanding a rez and a ready-check before every single pull -- and the others were because the rogue aggroed mobs before anyone else was ready. Again, everyone flew back except the healer, who had to be rezzed -- he never explained why. When I finally refused on the third one, the last thing I saw before getting kicked was another player agreeing with me. I have no idea how things went with whatever tank they got to replace me, but I sure hope it was a warrior or DK, leaving the healer without anyone to rez him.
SamLowry Jul 30th 2010 7:08PM
The idiot probably didn't know how to get back in. You can't believe how many dipsticks have leveled to 80 without ever leaving a capitol city.
Bogmunch Jul 30th 2010 7:29PM
Sad...It sucks that players are no longer required to venture out in the world. It makes you think, whats the point really? All you'd have to do is make a bunch of cities and instances and some players would be happy. Yikes.
Shoikler Jul 30th 2010 9:21PM
If it were Maraudon or BRD, I'd accept that reason and would've rezzed gladly. The thing with Halls of Stone, though, is that the graveyard's right outside. The trip back is shorter than a rez. And even then, had he said, we'd have helped him. Instead, it really seemed like his attention was on something other than WoW.
Psyc Jul 31st 2010 5:35AM
Maybe blizz should implement that you have to visit the entrance of a dungeon before you can get into that dungeon via the group finder....
Just a thought cos tbh its gotten very very boring waiting for ages for someone to find their way back in (blood furnace comes to mind) only to have them dithering around for ages then typing "fuck this" and leaving the group and having to wait for a replacement, which can be a long time if its a tank or healer.
SamLowry Jul 31st 2010 3:29PM
Psyc, that's exactly how Cata will operate, at least for the new instances.
irishbloke Jul 30th 2010 7:50PM
id love to block a whole realm from talking to me, Bronzebeard being the first one that springs to mind. So many people from there on my ignore list.
Kylenne Jul 30th 2010 11:04PM
I'll see your Bronzebeard and raise you a Blackrock. -_- Something like 90% of my ignore list across all my toons are jackasses from there.
krusty_burger Jul 31st 2010 12:03AM
I'll call with Kel'Thuzad.
Tushar Bharadia Jul 31st 2010 5:32AM
Flipping over my hole card, it looks like the entire Cyclone-EU battlegroup :P
Suzane Jul 30th 2010 7:55PM
An unfortunate thing I've noticed with the vote-kick thing is that I can very easily accidentally agree to a vote-kick by being in the middle of typing (or something else which requires a 'return' or a 'click' in the right place) and hitting enter at the wrong time. I _hate_ this fact, as it means I've accidentally helped kick people who I don't think deserved it.
Magefest Aug 2nd 2010 8:47AM
I feel your pain Suzane. It reminds me of the time I spent close to 20 minutes sitting in the Dungeon Finder queue. I was looking through my bags for something, then hit the escape key to close them (as I always do).
Sadly it was at this exact moment that the "Your dungeon group is ready" screen popped up. When I hit escape it was treated the same as declining to join the party.
To say I was unimpressed is an understatement.
LiaG Aug 2nd 2010 1:18PM
@Magefest
Shift + B for you :)
Draelan Jul 30th 2010 8:07PM
I haven't had much trouble lately, actually. I think the last time I had any real trouble was on my low-level shaman alt...
We were in Mauradon, orange crystal side, and the tank was not being particularly bright... Not only did he INSIST on trying to tank the slimes instead of kiting them (using up a lot of my mana just to keep him alive) but throughout half of the dungeon he was in this bitter fight he started with one of the DPS about who was more of a "noob". Shortly before the boss we needed to get our Sack of Useless Goods, he pulled several of the larger flower mobs... you know... the ones that periodically stun everyone. He pulled 3 or 4 of them at once, and this resulted in me being completely stun-locked so I could get off any sort of heal. He then had the audacity to blame the wipe on me. By that point, the rest of us had had enough of him, and so we had the DPS warrior tank (something he did just as well as the actual tank) and we made sure to vote-kick the tank just before the final boss so he couldn't get the sack.
There is one thing I've noted with max-level players that are assholes on my realm... They travel in groups. Most of the times I had issues in the past, the person(s) causing the issues were grouped with 1-2 other friends, making any action against them to be difficult at best.
Sylv Jul 30th 2010 8:28PM
I can't help but feel that the vote-kick system needs further refinement. I don't see it used often myself (and I am one of those who has a pair and won't just vote kick at random) but it seems whenever I have legitimate need to initiate a kick, it isn't available.
For example, a few days ago I got into a random Slave Pens on a warlock alt and right off the bat, as we're zoning in, a group member pipes up with "I'm going to wipe the group, k?" and proceeds to pull the entire first room. Everyone else stood back and watched him die and the mobs reset, informed him that if he was intent on wiping the group he should perhaps live to do so, and I attempted to initiate a vote-kick. Apparently you can't do so until 15 minutes have passed since the group formed...very unfortunate.
Steve Jul 30th 2010 8:36PM
I just wondered if anyone noticed the irony when people complain about 'servers' being elitist?
krusty_burger Jul 31st 2010 12:09AM
what's the irony? it's not an elitist point of view to hate elitists. especially when every experience with said elitists makes people want to shoot themselves in the face.