Officers' Quarters: It's a secret
Every Monday, Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership. He is the author of The Guild Leader's Handbook, available from No Starch Press.
Normally, for the introduction to this weekly feature, I write a little bit about the topic at hand before I post the email that will serve as the focal point for the discussion. This week, however, I don't want to spoil the tale for you before you read it. So, let's dive right in!
Fortunately, those issues were resolved, and my husband and I decided to rejoin the guild, even though we knew things would have changed. We were welcomed back, and I was even promoted back to a position just under my old one as an officer, allowing me to help recruit as some of our guild members had taken time off. However, my guild leader then did something that hurt me deeply, making me wonder what I saw in the guild in the first place.
He created an alt and, with another officer's help, got the alt into the guild. So far, no problem, except for one thing: He didn't tell anyone who he was. He pretended to be a new roleplayer in order to spy on the guild. When he was on the alt, he was hard to approach, rude, argumentative, and unresponsive. Every time he signed in, the few guildies who were on would say hello, ask if he needed anything, and my husband and I offered to help him learn to RP. He never answered us. Finally, he signed in as the alt one day, started some guild drama, I can't remember what about it was so petty, then /gquit without warning, prompting my very blunt husband to wonder "what bug crawled up his backside" in guild chat.
My problem is with how my guild leader behaved. Is it just me or was that a complete breach of trust, especially since I later learned that another officer had been in on it the whole time? I honestly felt like he'd slapped me in the face, since I'd worked so hard to get real life issues dealt with so I could go back to that guild, and the first thing he did was trick us like that. I've since left the guild, due to further remarks about "some of us having real lives outside of WoW" from that guild leader, but it still bothers me, especially since none of my former friends from there will even speak to me now.
Thanks for all the work you put into this, your columns are really useful, especially since my husband and I are currently trying to start a small RP guild of our own.
Myrric
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas and suggestions at scott@wow.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters!
Normally, for the introduction to this weekly feature, I write a little bit about the topic at hand before I post the email that will serve as the focal point for the discussion. This week, however, I don't want to spoil the tale for you before you read it. So, let's dive right in!
Hi!
I just recently started reading your column, and even bought your book on guild leadership for my husband's birthday. I have a question about behavior as a guild leader, and am curious as to what you think of my situation.
I started playing in a family-oriented, RP guild on Moon Guard about two years ago. I joined just a few weeks after the guild's creation, and made quite a few friends among the other members, even meeting my husband through the guild. Sadly, I had to leave the server for a while, due to real life issues with a stalker that was trying to track me through the game.
He created an alt and, with another officer's help, got the alt into the guild. So far, no problem, except for one thing: He didn't tell anyone who he was. He pretended to be a new roleplayer in order to spy on the guild. When he was on the alt, he was hard to approach, rude, argumentative, and unresponsive. Every time he signed in, the few guildies who were on would say hello, ask if he needed anything, and my husband and I offered to help him learn to RP. He never answered us. Finally, he signed in as the alt one day, started some guild drama, I can't remember what about it was so petty, then /gquit without warning, prompting my very blunt husband to wonder "what bug crawled up his backside" in guild chat.
Five minutes later, he signed in as the GL, and said he'd been putting the guild through a test and that we'd failed. He then proceeded to dress my husband down in guild chat for his comment, saying that my husband was wrong to start "talking about him behind his back", and that if we were going to give the cold shoulder to new recruits, the guild was going to fail. My husband responded by saying that he hadn't intended it in a malicious way, and that the way a guild would succeed was if the members were more involved, not through tests and secrecy. Then my husband offered to leave the guild, in order to avoid further conflict, which he ended up doing.
My problem is with how my guild leader behaved. Is it just me or was that a complete breach of trust, especially since I later learned that another officer had been in on it the whole time? I honestly felt like he'd slapped me in the face, since I'd worked so hard to get real life issues dealt with so I could go back to that guild, and the first thing he did was trick us like that. I've since left the guild, due to further remarks about "some of us having real lives outside of WoW" from that guild leader, but it still bothers me, especially since none of my former friends from there will even speak to me now.
Thanks for all the work you put into this, your columns are really useful, especially since my husband and I are currently trying to start a small RP guild of our own.
Myrric
<The Hungering Bear Clan>
Hi, Myrric. I've certainly encountered this idea of guild leaders and/or officers using anonymous alts to mess with the players in their guild. It's the kind of thing that officers sometimes joke about. However, this is the first time I've heard about someone who actually went and did it.
In MMOs, distrust is a fact of life. You don't trust a hawker in trade chat to give you a good price without looking up the auction house average. You don't trust the random players from the dungeon finder to pass on loot they don't really need. You don't trust the formal-looking email from "blizzaccounts@warcraft.com" when it tells you to log in on a website or risk suspension. The people in your guild are often the only people in this entire gaming world that you can trust. That's supposed to be the safe place, the place where people aren't out to scam you into giving them too much gold for an item, ninja a trinket or hack your account. If you can't trust the people in your own guild, what's the point of belonging to it?
Trust is implicit in the guild experience. A guild is a social setting built on the concepts of honesty and fairness. For officers to abuse your trust like this is completely inappropriate. This situation goes far, far beyond merely "spying." It's one thing to lurk in the guild on an alt, hoping to catch someone acting poorly (and even that is sort of creepy and unnecessary) -- but to pose as someone else in an attempt to elicit a negative response? That's taking the situation to a whole new level. By undertaking this undercover operation, he was also demonstrating that he doesn't trust any of you.
Not only that, but the way your guild leader went about this "secret test" was setting you up to fail. It sounds to me like you did everything right. You offered to help. You tried to engage this new "recruit." If anyone had a "cold shoulder," it was him. He was the one rejecting you, not the other way around. It's practically entrapment.
What more could you have done? Are you supposed to overlook the rudeness and the lack of response? Who would do that? Honestly, if a new player in a guild goes out of the way to be insulting and start drama, who is going to go out of the way to make them feel welcome or stop them from quitting? An extremely unfriendly and sensitive "recruit" quitting the guild was the best-case scenario! Would "passing" the test mean you embraced this player, forgave every fault and allowed him to run rampant in guild chat? If so, then the test is only to see how much of your pleasant guild experience you will sacrifice in order to be courteous to a ridiculous a**hole.
What baffles me the most about this situation is what point your guild leader was trying to make. What was he hoping to accomplish here? What good could possibly result from this scenario? What is the lesson to be learned? Does he actually want people who behave like his "recruit" character in his guild?
Imagine a future where everyone in the guild is always over-the-top nice to every new player who joins, regardless of their response, purely out of fear that it could be the guild leader in disguise. Real recruits will think you've all lost your minds.
Then, the icing on the cake: Your guild leader emo-raged when your husband made a comment about the whole thing. To me, your husband reacted naturally. I probably would have said the same thing. The only person doing something "wrong" in this situation was your guild leader.
The bottom line is this: It's not a guild leader's place to "test" your behavior. Ever. Honestly, I can't imagine a context in which it would be appropriate for anyone to do this, under any circumstances. The sheer self-righteousness of it nauseates me.
If someone is acting like a jerk, it is the job of the officers to rein that player in or kick that player to preserve the guild environment for everyone else. Until that moment comes, however, your officers have no reason to get involved. If your guild leader somehow feels compelled to judge the behavior of his players, he should judge them by their words and actions every day, not by the result of some one-time, artificial scenario. Furthermore, he should keep his opinions to himself until someone actually causes a problem.
It's unfortunate that you were severed from your friends by this situation, Myrric. I'm surprised that more people weren't outraged by this stunt. At least you met your husband there before it all went south!
I wish you luck with your new guild. Believe me when I say you are better off no longer dealing with that guild leader and his officer accomplice.
/salute
Hi, Myrric. I've certainly encountered this idea of guild leaders and/or officers using anonymous alts to mess with the players in their guild. It's the kind of thing that officers sometimes joke about. However, this is the first time I've heard about someone who actually went and did it.
In MMOs, distrust is a fact of life. You don't trust a hawker in trade chat to give you a good price without looking up the auction house average. You don't trust the random players from the dungeon finder to pass on loot they don't really need. You don't trust the formal-looking email from "blizzaccounts@warcraft.com" when it tells you to log in on a website or risk suspension. The people in your guild are often the only people in this entire gaming world that you can trust. That's supposed to be the safe place, the place where people aren't out to scam you into giving them too much gold for an item, ninja a trinket or hack your account. If you can't trust the people in your own guild, what's the point of belonging to it?
Trust is implicit in the guild experience. A guild is a social setting built on the concepts of honesty and fairness. For officers to abuse your trust like this is completely inappropriate. This situation goes far, far beyond merely "spying." It's one thing to lurk in the guild on an alt, hoping to catch someone acting poorly (and even that is sort of creepy and unnecessary) -- but to pose as someone else in an attempt to elicit a negative response? That's taking the situation to a whole new level. By undertaking this undercover operation, he was also demonstrating that he doesn't trust any of you.
Not only that, but the way your guild leader went about this "secret test" was setting you up to fail. It sounds to me like you did everything right. You offered to help. You tried to engage this new "recruit." If anyone had a "cold shoulder," it was him. He was the one rejecting you, not the other way around. It's practically entrapment.
What more could you have done? Are you supposed to overlook the rudeness and the lack of response? Who would do that? Honestly, if a new player in a guild goes out of the way to be insulting and start drama, who is going to go out of the way to make them feel welcome or stop them from quitting? An extremely unfriendly and sensitive "recruit" quitting the guild was the best-case scenario! Would "passing" the test mean you embraced this player, forgave every fault and allowed him to run rampant in guild chat? If so, then the test is only to see how much of your pleasant guild experience you will sacrifice in order to be courteous to a ridiculous a**hole.
What baffles me the most about this situation is what point your guild leader was trying to make. What was he hoping to accomplish here? What good could possibly result from this scenario? What is the lesson to be learned? Does he actually want people who behave like his "recruit" character in his guild?
Imagine a future where everyone in the guild is always over-the-top nice to every new player who joins, regardless of their response, purely out of fear that it could be the guild leader in disguise. Real recruits will think you've all lost your minds.
Then, the icing on the cake: Your guild leader emo-raged when your husband made a comment about the whole thing. To me, your husband reacted naturally. I probably would have said the same thing. The only person doing something "wrong" in this situation was your guild leader.
The bottom line is this: It's not a guild leader's place to "test" your behavior. Ever. Honestly, I can't imagine a context in which it would be appropriate for anyone to do this, under any circumstances. The sheer self-righteousness of it nauseates me.
If someone is acting like a jerk, it is the job of the officers to rein that player in or kick that player to preserve the guild environment for everyone else. Until that moment comes, however, your officers have no reason to get involved. If your guild leader somehow feels compelled to judge the behavior of his players, he should judge them by their words and actions every day, not by the result of some one-time, artificial scenario. Furthermore, he should keep his opinions to himself until someone actually causes a problem.
It's unfortunate that you were severed from your friends by this situation, Myrric. I'm surprised that more people weren't outraged by this stunt. At least you met your husband there before it all went south!
I wish you luck with your new guild. Believe me when I say you are better off no longer dealing with that guild leader and his officer accomplice.
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Kaphik Aug 2nd 2010 1:09PM
Sadly, that guild is no longer the guild you remember. I would offer an explanation to the members of the guild that you enjoy playing with, whether it's in gchat or on the guild's forums, and then take leave of the guild.
Your current guild leader sounds like he's let the power go to his head, and you're better off not wasting your time with someone like that in control.
Good luck to you!
Hoof Aug 2nd 2010 3:43PM
Fully agree with Kaphik. It is clearly time to leave, create a new roleplaying guild of your own and offer anyone from the old guild whom you trust and consider to be your friend a new safe place where guild masters and officers won't intentially spy on their members in hopes of gleaming some false sense of not doing enough to help to the arrogant, rude newcomer.
Leave the guild, do so quickly. I'd even consider leaving the server in all honesty to get away from that guild leader and whatever potential drama he continues to try to pull on you if you offer a spot in your new guild to members of your old guild.
Doki-Chan Aug 3rd 2010 3:46AM
Is there a way of reporting an underhanded jerk like this to the server at large (obviously in a calm and responsible way that doesn't get you flamed, shunned etc.)?
It also shows up the fact that:
1) there's (hopefully) basic trust, and then there's trusting someone enough to give them your RealID (i.e. my own husband and very few others, usually RL friends get this privilege). Just who out of our Guildies can we trust? And does that make us pragmatic or paranoid?
2) this jerk would never give anyone his RealID unless they were in cahoots with his sick little power-trip, else you would spot him like a shot....
I think this piece shows both the positive and negative sides of on-line social gaming; while some of us may meet the best friends (and relationships) we have ever had, some of us also meet the dregs of society masquerading as "buddies" to get cheap kicks out of destroying what others have built, and make other innocent people hurt more than they do.
It seems whilst cream floats to the top, so do other things.... :(
Harvoc2 Aug 2nd 2010 1:11PM
This is one of the convoluted "tests" ever. I mean if you try to be nice to a new guildie who's rude and overly sensitive, and he ignores or even insults you, the guild leader should kick him. It's hard to believe that anyone in your guild actually stayed after this incident. Well good luck in your new guild Myrric and I hope yours flourishes.
Prances in Underpantss Aug 2nd 2010 8:12PM
Yeah, the test doesn't even make sense. The guild was trying to be helpful and he was the one being rude. How is that the guilds fault? Obviously, it's failed leadership.
Brett Aug 2nd 2010 1:13PM
Wow... just wow. I am really surprised someone went to those lengths to prove some kind of point or "test" the guild members. Had I been in that guild at the time, I would have joined you with a /gquit as well.
I know they say there's always two sides to a story, but I'm honestly not sure what the other side could have been to justify such horrible actions on the GL's part.
You *are* better off out of that guild, even though it is sad you lost friends in the process; perhaps they weren't the best friends to begin with :-/ Or at least one's that don't have your back, and that's what they're supposed to be there for.
Rebanar Aug 2nd 2010 1:16PM
Maybe this would be sinking to their level, but it would be interesting to have an officer invite your alt to the guild and see how the guild leader would respond to this type of behavior. I just wonder what his idea of the "correct" response is.
Snuzzle Aug 3rd 2010 6:57AM
Doesn't even have to be an alt of yours or a guild members, just how he would deal with an abrasive and rude recruit in general. While I know this will probably never happen, one can hope.
I think the best thing to do, honestly, would be to have a private chat with the GL and make sure he knows how he was coming across to people. Maybe I'm giving him too much credit, but it's possible he simply did not realize how he was acting on the alt. If you choose to go this route, make sure you approach him calmly and without making judgements or accusations. If your old friends are on his side, maybe it was just a big misunderstanding. Hey, it's possible! If he refuses to concede that he did anything wrong, or he admits that he was being a dick on purpose as part of the test then give this guild the boot and don't look back.
They say don't burn bridges, but I personally would make it more than clear that the reason you're leaving is the GL's atrocious mind game. You don't have to be dramatic about it, but make no bones about the fact that this is why you're leaving. Maybe if enough good members leave after this stunt, he'll realize how incredibly horrible what he did was. And if not? No loss on your end. Do you really want to be associated with people like that?
You're absolutely right that it was an unbelievable breach of trust. I guess you should be glad that their true colors are waving freely in the breeze now. Those people are no true friends and no real loss.
I mean, this is a bit like making a fake Myspace and hitting on your spouse to catch him or her cheating. Sure, it works, but god is it cheap and slimy behavior.
wandelaar Aug 2nd 2010 1:18PM
Normally, i would never comment on a good post, but i really feel the need to say that Scott has interpreted it the right way and you and your husband is nothing to blame. I hope you will have only good RP experiences within wow from now on for as long as it takes.
Jamie Aug 2nd 2010 1:20PM
The guy seems like he was going to keep on going till he got a negative response - and seemed to have a vendetta against your husband at least, there seemed no reason to go off the handle like he did.
Frankly what your husband said was very mild, I'm sorry you lost your guild but it seems that happened a long long time before this event took place.
Chalcedony Aug 2nd 2010 1:23PM
How is that tauren riding a gryphon?
Cimadx45 Aug 2nd 2010 1:29PM
Orb of Deception
Jamie Aug 2nd 2010 1:30PM
Hover over the picture you'll see the item linked is "Orb of Deception" (quite fitting for this article)... if I recall a Gnome turns into a Tauren with this item.
musicchan Aug 2nd 2010 1:37PM
The armor on the tauren makes me think this is a gnome using the orb of disguise.
Nefaria Aug 2nd 2010 1:23PM
These sound like the actions of a sociopath. Avoid this player, there are deeper issues at work here.
Alcestis Aug 2nd 2010 1:42PM
Ignore list is for these kind of creeps
Arbolamante Aug 2nd 2010 1:55PM
Absolutely. While perhaps not a sociopath in the clinical sense, certainly a person willing and eager to manipulate other people and who also really doesn't understand how humans think and behave. If someone behaves like a jerk and then storms off in a huff, wondering out loud what got them so riled up is a very normal reaction.
vindico Aug 2nd 2010 1:24PM
IMO, the GM was trying to bait either you or your husband. The only reasonable explanation for this is that you and/or him were popular in the guild and he wanted a "no fault" way to get rid of you.
Start your own guild. It's easier than dealing with unreasonable children.
Chalcedony Aug 2nd 2010 1:30PM
How do I know this isn't a comment of deception?
Servetus Aug 2nd 2010 1:33PM
Two thoughts. First, you can never go back. Even under these circumstances, where you left because you had to and not because of anyone in your guild, even when these friends seemed to welcome you back, all of us change with time. If we're changing together, then we integrate our changes with each other without thinking. If we're changing apart, the gears never mesh. You really can't ever go back. It's an old saying, but it's true.
Second, this guild leader is a butthole. Plain and simple, he was wrong for what he did. No matter how noble his intentions, his execution was so bad as to make the event fail. Period. Your letter said the character gquit, your husband made his comment, and THEN the guild leader signed BACK ON...knowing what was said? That means the guild leader had someone else involved, to feed them the information. That makes this even MORE wrong. It almost makes me wonder whether you and/or your husband were the actual TARGETS here?
The comments that have said you're better off out of this guild are absolutely correct. There are worse things than being alone. For instance, what happened to you. :(
Keep the faith. Things WILL get better.