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8-04-2010 @ 12:36AM
So, any bets on where the next big ERP spot will be?
8-04-2010 @ 12:39AM
In before flaming:I'm not suggesting that this behavior should continue, it's just my experience that if you try to crack down on the goings-on in a certain area, the goings-on will go on . . . Somewhere else.
Pssssh, the tram is where the real cool kids go. Gotta hop off in the middle for maximum effect.But really, I feel bad but I laughed a fair bit at this. It's pretty bad when your rep is that notorious XD
8-04-2010 @ 1:13AM
In Cataclysm it will be the peak of Blackrock Mountain.
8-04-2010 @ 3:48AM
the Nelfs in Emerald Dream (EU) were already doing it next door upstairs (the leatherworker's house)... with those creepy kids watching....
8-04-2010 @ 5:52AM
@Feniks9174That works when the law enforcement aren't omnipotent and omnipresent. Blizz GMs log all chat and can appear anywhere in WoW. If a new place becomes the next big ERP spot, then GMs will just crack down there too.Only way to avoid their wrath is to just keep it to party chat or whispers. Which the ERPers should have been doing anyways!
8-04-2010 @ 9:12AM
this behavior is the SOLE reason i dont even wish to try out a RP server.
8-04-2010 @ 10:17AM
It's not just RP servers, to be fair. It's primarily THIS RP server. Moon Guard has become a gathering place for LBGT people over the years. People who identify themselves primarily by their sexuality over other aspects of their personality can be expected to make that their primary pastime in game as well. Most RP servers have some of this going on, but they are generally populated by average people just playing out their characters. A large number of people on Moon Guard define themselves first and foremost as sexual people, so this is simply an expected occurrence and, like any other culture you may find offensive, should just be avoided. There are plenty of other servers out there, and there are plenty of other locations in the game besides Goldshire.TL;DR: You don't go into a gay bar and complain about the techno music. Don't go to Goldshire on Moon Guard and complain about the ERP.
8-04-2010 @ 10:32AM
@Heilig - your view is just a wee bit on the stereotypical side here. Let me explain: Just because someone doesn't identify themselves as hetero doesn't mean that heterosexuals aren't just as sexual as homosexuals. Proudmoore has a very large percentage of LGBT players, but you don't find a lot of ERP there. In fact, I've never found any at all, and my main has been there for a long time now.The fact remains, if given a place that has developed a reputation for it, people who are into that sort of thing will congregate there. I would imagine that if a server has developed a reputation for ERP for "furries", then you'd start to see a lot more druids on said server (and later, worgen).The fact that you have noticed LGBTs over heteros is most likely because it tends to stand out more than if a guy is hitting on a girl, due in large part to the homophobia that still pervades much of our world today.
8-04-2010 @ 10:58AM
@feniks9174The Scryers. It's an RP with zero RP, so it's ripe for the taking.Seriously though, it's pretty bad. I rolled an alt there to see how bad it was. You can't even get into the inn. It's wall to wall people.
8-04-2010 @ 11:21AM
They're all going to come back to Ravenholdt.:(
8-04-2010 @ 11:38AM
@HeiligWoah...woah...woah.Really?"Moon Guard has become a gathering place for LBGT people over the years. People who identify themselves primarily by their sexuality over other aspects of their personality can be expected to make that their primary pastime in game as well."Are you -really- wholesale defining LBGT people as people who identify themselves primarily by their sexuality over other aspects of their personality?Wake up. For every lbgt person that seems that way, there are 10 sitting behind them just minding their own business and living their lives out as normal. Additionally, that person who seems about nothing but their sexuality is probably a freshly de-closeted individual snapping back against what has thus far been a lifetime of repression brought on by a society that, itself, (at least in the case of American society) wishes to define LGBT people only by their sexuality, usually ignoring all other aspects of a person once that aspect of them is revealed.Do people that you're referring to exist? Of course they do. Just as many "straight" folks are about nothing but their sexuality either, it's just not called attention to as much because of the hetero-normative culture we live in. If we do point it out, they're simply sluts or ho-bags...noone goes "OMG, they're shoving their straightness in our faces."
8-05-2010 @ 1:08PM
Feniks comment makes considerable sense though. His point is simply that the server is notorious for the behavior in this particular spot. The bar example was on point though, you don't go to a place that shows a behavior you KNOW is going to occur, and complain about it, because you choose to go there.Though a better example would be a group of people sitting around in a circle talking about various sexual positions, and a random passerby walks up to the circle and tells the cops. In both examples, it doesn't break the law/ToS as Blizzard has demonstrated there is /ignore and chat filters in game, and the majority of problems ARE solved with those options, just people expect to not have to do anything. The game comes with a warning as part of it's ESRB rating "game experiences may change during online play" and that comes as part of the community. It's not WoW's fault that a few parents are sheltering their kids. And Blizz does give tools at the parents disposal to deal with this kinda thing, but if they neglect it *and the ignore list is pretty huge, for those who haven't filled one* and /ignore literally prevents you from seeing anything that person emotes/says/shouts/whispers/guildchats/rolls on.I'm not even defending the group, as for all I know they could be hitting on this kid *thus, harassment at that point as it's 'directed' at someone. But the reverse side of things has the ball in the parents court. It's time they took some responsibility and learned to use the tools provided. Ignorance isn't an excuse
8-04-2010 @ 11:49AM
8-04-2010 @ 3:37PM
"Are you -really- wholesale defining LBGT people as people who identify themselves primarily by their sexuality over other aspects of their personality?"No, I'm not. I'm not defining anyone as anything. I'm simply pointing out that people who have chosen to identify themselves by their sexuality first should be expected to act in accordance to that identity.Unlike you, I might add..."that person who seems about nothing but their sexuality is probably a freshly de-closeted individual snapping back against what has thus far been a lifetime of repression brought on by a society"Woah...woah...woah.Really?Are you -really- wholesale defining openly sexual gay people as "freshly de-closeted individuals snapping back"?"For every lbgt person that seems that way, there are 10 sitting behind them just minding their own business and living their lives out as normal."I'm aware of that. But those people don't define themselves as part of the LGBT CULTURE. Those people generally define themselves as an engineer, or an author, or a musician, or an Australian, or a man, or tall, or whatever they feel the dominant trait of their personality is. That's just how people label themselves. I'm not labeling them. They have done it themselves. I am simply pointing out that they can be expected to act in a way that matches the label they give themselves. If the label they choose is one based on sexuality, you should expect sexuality to show itself in virtually all of their activities, including WoW.For example, when someone says to me "So tell me about yourself," my response usually begins "Well, I'm a chemist..." and continues through my life and interests. but the label I give myself is that of a chemist. It is not unreasonable for people to expect me to talk about how chemistry relates to whatever the conversation is. It is similarly not unreasonable for people to expect people who label themselves with a sexual label to act in a sexual manner. In fact, i would say that it IS unreasonable to expect them NOT to act that way since it is counter to their personality. Blizzard is asking these people to do exactly that. i say let them do what they want, and if people don't like it they don't have to hang out in Goldshire on Moon Guard."Just as many "straight" folks are about nothing but their sexuality either"Of course they are. If the people on Moon Guard were primarily made up of members of a hetero swingers' movement, my comment would have been something like "What do you expect? They're swingers. Do you expect them to talk about the weather?"Think about this: If the problem were people being bombarded with chat and whispers and emotes about sports as soon as they entered Goldshire and it was determined that most of the people involved were hard core rugby players and I said "What do you expect? They identify themselves first as rugby players. You should expect that their activities would revolve around sports" would you be as upset? Of course not.You should come down off your soap box and notice what is lacking from my post. There is no judgment anywhere, in the first post or this one. People can do what they want, I couldn't care less. I would never call anyone "sluts or ho-bags" or say "OMG, they're shoving their straightness (or gayness) in our faces." If i didn't approve, i would simply separate myself from it so they can continue to enjoy their lives and i could enjoy mine, which is exactly what I advised people to do in my first post. If you don't like it, avoid it. It's not like you're chained down and forced to watch it. If you do like it, then by all means have fun. People who are offended by this but don't have a problem playing a game that involves brutally hacking people and creatures to death, or burning them alive, or poisoning them until they die in pain have a serious issue with priorities in their lives.And yes, THAT is a generalization that I will stand by.
8-04-2010 @ 3:54PM
@HeiligYour blatant stereotyping of an entire segment of the human population is kind of disgusting. I doubt that all of the culprits in the ERP are *only* LGBT or ever *most* for that matter. This kind of stereotyping is exactly the reason why gamers, and subsequently WoW players, are stuck constantly fighting the "basement dweller" stereotype. Because not all of us are living in our parents basements pissing into Mt Dew bottles instead of using a toilet. Female players are also not all "trolls under the bridge" type either. Mind you, there are some who probably fit every stereotype, but to lump an entire segment of the player base into the ERP category (even if it's only on one server) is kind of appalling. @KayI applaud your comment.I recently reported http://www.fireflyoftheearth.com/random/wow_hate_1.jpg these three for hateful speech. The GM response was absolutely amazing. The part of the screen shot that's missed is the part where one of them states "As long as they don't mess with my junk" and my response was "The gays probably don't want anything to do with your junk." *sigh* The less people who tolerate this kind of behavior at all, the better WoW can be for everyone.
8-04-2010 @ 4:23PM
@HeiligYou can't seem to decide what it is exactly that you're arguing. Are all LGBT people defined by their sexuality? It's an implication of your original post, however fast you attempt to backpedal away from it in an effort to discredit my response. (With a healthy dose of "I know you are but what am I" on the side.)If you identify a server as having a high LGBT population, and identify it as filled with people who identify primarily by their sexuality, guess what? You've defined the LGBT community as people primarily defined by their sexuality. You chose to put these things together in a manner-of-fact manner, and the resulting tone paints a grim view of people who are in those categories.There's a line, a distinction to be made here...there are people who are LGBT who define their entire lives by their sexuality, and there are people who are LGBT who do not. Both, however, are LGBT...that fact of their personnas remain. Now, at this point, perhaps then you're suggesting that if they didn't define their lives by their sexuality, they wouldn't flock to a server that has a known concentration of that communityA lot of us try that. To simply play wherever the chips fall, on whatever server strikes our fancy as we roll up a toon for the first time. Then you face months of this in channels both public and private, maybe even in guild, over Ventrilo..."That's f****** gay""What a f****t.""Ugh, f***** queer."And worse. Does it then mean you're defined by your sexuality if you try to find someplace to get away from the same tired tripe you have to deal with IRL?
8-04-2010 @ 5:40PM
I've had several unwelcome sexual comments, on a PVE server, all from STRAIGHT guys when they found out I was a real girl. I've got a few good friends in real life who are girls who like girls. In contrast, they've never hit on me.And proposition 8 got knocked down today! :D (Woot!) wake up and smell the legislation.
8-04-2010 @ 7:45PM
"You can't seem to decide what it is exactly that you're arguing."I suggest you re-read my posts without your holier-than-thou glasses on. My position is clear. There is a large number of people on Moon Guard who define themselves with an openly sexual label that are being asked to stop taking actions that are directly opposed to their personalities. I am arguing that the people that don't like it should just go elsewhere instead of expecting other people to change to meet their desires.Since you seem to be having a problem understanding, let's make our language clear. Lesbians don't do this. Gay guys don't do this. Bisexuals don't do this. Transgender people don't do this. Members of the "LGBT community" are the ones that decide to label themselves this way. The "movement" has an agenda and have decided to be very open and public with their sexuality. That's fine. Let them. I don't care one way or the other. It doesn't bother me, and if it did, I would leave.Labels have power, and yes, they are stereotypes. You seem to think, though, that stereotypes can only be applied by haters, or that all stereotypes are negative. Neither is true. People who label themselves as part of the LGBT community are in fact usually overtly sexual, it's part of the reason they identify so strongly with the agenda of the movement. When it is very obvious to everyone around you that you are gay, it becomes very important to you that there be no shame or ridicule attached to it. I'm on board with that. It's your life do with it what you want. but the other side of the coin is that if you choose to carry that label, you have to accept the image that comes with it.Think of it this way. Do you get the same mental image when I say "truck driver" as when i say "teamster"? How about the difference between "a bunch of kindergarten teachers" and "teachers' union"? These labels have power, they have meanings, and nothing you or I say about it is going to change that. These people have chosen to define themselves, and applying their own labels to them is neither offensive nor wrong. If you carry that label and it DOES offend you when you are identified by it, perhaps you are carrying the wrong label."There's a line, a distinction to be made here...there are people who are LGBT who define their entire lives by their sexuality, and there are people who are LGBT who do not. Both, however, are LGBT...that fact of their personnas remain. Now, at this point, perhaps then you're suggesting that if they didn't define their lives by their sexuality, they wouldn't flock to a server that has a known concentration of that community"The second part of this is exactly what I am saying, except in reverse, kind of. I'm not saying they flock there or anything, just that they ARE there and people who go there should be reasonable and not expect the ERP'ers to act differently just because it offends them. The people who are complaining are going to a rodeo and complaining that it smells like cows.However, the first part of your statement is where I disagree, and I think it is probably just a matter of semantics between us. The large majority of my gay friends never use the term "LGBT", they just say they're gay. In fact, they usually act ashamed of that culture and that movement. They just want everyone to accept them and leave them alone. They do not define themselves as "LGBT" and they are not a part of that community, and I think that applies to probably 90% of gay people in America right now. Most of them just want their sexuality to not even matter. For the most part, however, the ERPers on Moon Guard are in the other 10%, the ones who DO use the label of "LGBT", wear it proudly, and stay very open about their sexuality. There's nothing wrong with it, and good for them, but from what i have been told by my gay friends, they most certainly do not speak for even a majority of gay people. They speak for their own community, their own culture.I think the disconnect comes because you are defining every gay person as "LGBT" when most of them wouldn't even define themselves that way."A lot of us try that. To simply play wherever the chips fall, on whatever server strikes our fancy as we roll up a toon for the first time. Then you face months of this in channels both public and private, maybe even in guild, over Ventrilo..."That's f****** gay""What a f****t.""Ugh, f***** queer."And worse.Does it then mean you're defined by your sexuality if you try to find someplace to get away from the same tired tripe you have to deal with IRL?"No, and if you're not one of the ERPers on that server and you just went there to get away from the hate, then I'm clearly not talking about you. However, I would say that you should stand up for yourself. I am not gay, but when I see people talking like that in trade chat, I report them and ignore them. If it happens in guild, I tell tehm to stop. If it happens again, I, being GM, boot them. If they ask why, i tell them it's because they're a bigot and ignore them. You seem to forget that this is a game. You can pretty much do whatever you want. If you want to make a guild full of like-minded individuals, you can do it. If you don't want to hear the hate someone is spewing, you can ignore them. If they are in your guild saying it over vent, you can mute them. If it still doesn't stop and the GM won't stop it, you can leave the guild.There are always options, but jumping on the case of someone who WAS ACTIVELY DEFENDING YOUR RIGHT TO BE WHO YOU ARE just because you didn't like the way he used someone's self-applied label is really not the best option.
8-04-2010 @ 8:54PM
@Heilig What your saying is bullshit. I agree especially young lots of gay mean and women are overly excited about their sexuality, but its perfectly rational considering the years in the closet. But as a member of the LGBT community I dont define myself primarily by my sexuality and yet am still a member of this community. Im also a college student studying BioChem and a soccer player, a son, a friend, a brother, a beekeeper hehe, an avid reader, a gamer, but i dont primarily define myself as any of that. Im dynamic and human just like anyone else. What you said is offensive and there is no way around that.
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