Drama Mamas: Tank entitlement
Drama Mamas Lisa Poisso and Robin Torres are experienced gamers and real-life mamas -- and just as we don't want our precious babies to be the ones kicking and wailing on the floor of the checkout lane next to the candy, neither do we want you to become known as That Guy on your realm.
There are many kinds of tanks. There are skilled, geared, uber-tanks and just-learning-how-to-taunt tanks and OMG-I've-never-meleed-before tanks and I-queued-tank-so-I-wouldn't-have-to-wait tanks. There are tanks of various personalities, talents and patience. But this week, we only concern ourselves with the tanks who think they're entitled to do whatever they want because groups are at their mercy. We have two letters that ask about this issue.
Drama Mama Robin: I put these two emails together because I feel they both stem from the same cause: Tank Entitlement, or TE. TE has been a problem since the dungeon finder first appeared on the scene, and it's not going away any time soon. Though both tanks and healers are in demand and have shorter queues, tanks are the ones who set the pace of the PUG and therefore can make or break the experience. Of course, tanks should go at the pace of the healer. Duh. But those suffering from TE go at their own pace, regardless of level, dungeon or skill. Let's look at the the possible mindset of those whose brains are addled by TE:
Instadeath, griefers grief and funsuckers suck. Though I haven't personally experienced your issue, I'm sure many have, and I'm also sure it will continue during this whole summer-break-boredom-before-an-expansion thing we're going through. TE makes griefing easy in random dungeons. Put the tank on ignore and move on. Try not to let it bother you.
Scared, you're learning, and the majority of players at lower levels are learning. This is common and, as you've already found, most people are more than happy to work together in the lower levels. The bad experiences that keep you from enjoying PUGs are due to TE. Again, put the nasty tanks on ignore and try not to let it bother you. Just like with Mr. Too Sexy from last week, there is no point in arguing with those who suffer from TE. You'll just increase your own frustration as well as cause more drama for everyone else.
There is only one way I can think of to avoid TE altogether and that is to always make sure you only random with a known, good tank. This is easier said than done. But if you are planning a duo to take through dungeon leveling, plan for a healer/tank combo. If you have some guildies with baby tanks, make playdates with them. Since TE is a common problem, you could even advertise for a tank in trade chat and hold tryouts for tanks on your server with similar schedules to yours. Your queues will be shorter, too.
Drama Mama Lisa: Instadeath and Scared, I would echo Robin's advice and add an additional strong word of advice: Don't allow these boorish bullies to make you feel shoved into a corner. We've talked before about every player's ability -- your ability -- to set the tone and influence the player community. Let's take that idea for another spin.
The way you react to vote-kickers and bullies is every bit as influential to the tone of our online community as the screechings of the problem children. If group members are going way over the line with criticism and attacks, stay calm; your restraint makes it painfully obvious what shrieking harpies they really are. Don't argue with these creatures, which gives them the platform for displaying their bullying and egos that they so desperately crave. Keep using your ignore list, just as you have been. A light, well-timed comment ("Whew! Another worm leaps free from the apple barrel!") can help restore calm and establish solidarity among those of you still left in an abandoned group. What's most helpful in the long run is not to cause a commotion over how horribly you were wronged, but to counteract the effect of the bullies and spread an attitude of empowerment and respect among other players. Immaturity and callous disregard for others aren't the only forms of behavior that are contagious; your reactions can be equally powerful in creating the online world you want to live and play in.
Dodge the drama and become that player everyone wants in their group with a little help and insight from the Drama Mamas. Remember, your mama wouldn't want to see your name on any drama. Play nice ... and when in doubt, ask the Drama Mamas at DramaMamas@wow.com.
There are many kinds of tanks. There are skilled, geared, uber-tanks and just-learning-how-to-taunt tanks and OMG-I've-never-meleed-before tanks and I-queued-tank-so-I-wouldn't-have-to-wait tanks. There are tanks of various personalities, talents and patience. But this week, we only concern ourselves with the tanks who think they're entitled to do whatever they want because groups are at their mercy. We have two letters that ask about this issue.
Drama Mamas,
In the past few weeks I have noticed a disturbing trend in with the dungeon finder. At least twice a week I will get into a group where one player will pull everything in sight then leave. I play a mage so this means I get killed in milliseconds, which is no fun at all.
I hate to say it, but it's usually -- OK, always -- the tank. So far the only "solution" I've found is blocking that particular player so I don't get grouped with him again, but that won't keep it from happening with other jerks.
Have either of you experienced this, or am I just extremely unlucky?
Instadeath
Dear Drama Mamas,
I'm an old hand at WoW, but recently, I decided to try something a little different. Since my husband and I started a small guild of our own, we also decided to roll a couple of characters that would basically be us in WoW form -- two orcs, his a warrior, and mine, a shaman.
So here's my problem: I'm trying to learn to heal, and shaman are the most efficient healers I've seen. However, I'm still low level, only 18, and I know that I won't be getting really useful skills to heal until I'm a little higher. However, I want to practice, and I've been trying to use low-level dungeons PUGs to do so. Most of my experiences have been pretty nice, as the first thing I say is, "I'm new to healing, so can we please go slowly and not aggro too many things?" However, that all changed two days ago, and I've been afraid to try healing again because of it.
I was in the Deadmines, and I was brought into a dungeon in progress. As soon as I arrived, I could see the problem -- the tank was aggroing too many of the goblin engineers in the foundry area. We immediately wiped, and I suggested that we try to skip the goblins in the center of the room. When we got back, we wiped again, and the tank blamed me, then left. Then we got a new tank, and she did the same thing as the first one, causing a third wipe. She began yelling at everyone for "pulling adds," and at this point, the group fell apart. Unphased, I rejoined the random dungeon finder, only to be put into a new dungeon with Tank No. 2.
She immediately started yelling, "Kick that healer! She's lousy; she let us die in the last dungeon!" A few people asked what happened, so I explained -- but all the whil,e the tank was yelling, "She's lying, she's just horrible, she can't play healers!" I ended up leaving that group and putting Tank No. 2 on ignore, but since then I've been afraid to try again, and my shaman is sitting forlorn and lonely in The Barrens.
Is there any way I can convey just how new I am at healing to future groups so I can continue to play my healer? I don't know enough people around my level on my server to make a teaching group, and I'm terrified of trying to run in a PUG now. Any advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated.
Shaman Scared Silly
- "I don't have to wait in the queue, therefore I have the power to quit any group I want to instantly join another."
- "Everyone else has a wait in the queue; therefore, they have to do what I say if they don't want to wait."
- "Everyone is a baddie except for me."
- "I am miserable in the physical world, have no control over my non-virtual life and therefore, I grief people in game to make me feel powerful."
Instadeath, griefers grief and funsuckers suck. Though I haven't personally experienced your issue, I'm sure many have, and I'm also sure it will continue during this whole summer-break-boredom-before-an-expansion thing we're going through. TE makes griefing easy in random dungeons. Put the tank on ignore and move on. Try not to let it bother you.
Scared, you're learning, and the majority of players at lower levels are learning. This is common and, as you've already found, most people are more than happy to work together in the lower levels. The bad experiences that keep you from enjoying PUGs are due to TE. Again, put the nasty tanks on ignore and try not to let it bother you. Just like with Mr. Too Sexy from last week, there is no point in arguing with those who suffer from TE. You'll just increase your own frustration as well as cause more drama for everyone else.
There is only one way I can think of to avoid TE altogether and that is to always make sure you only random with a known, good tank. This is easier said than done. But if you are planning a duo to take through dungeon leveling, plan for a healer/tank combo. If you have some guildies with baby tanks, make playdates with them. Since TE is a common problem, you could even advertise for a tank in trade chat and hold tryouts for tanks on your server with similar schedules to yours. Your queues will be shorter, too.
The way you react to vote-kickers and bullies is every bit as influential to the tone of our online community as the screechings of the problem children. If group members are going way over the line with criticism and attacks, stay calm; your restraint makes it painfully obvious what shrieking harpies they really are. Don't argue with these creatures, which gives them the platform for displaying their bullying and egos that they so desperately crave. Keep using your ignore list, just as you have been. A light, well-timed comment ("Whew! Another worm leaps free from the apple barrel!") can help restore calm and establish solidarity among those of you still left in an abandoned group. What's most helpful in the long run is not to cause a commotion over how horribly you were wronged, but to counteract the effect of the bullies and spread an attitude of empowerment and respect among other players. Immaturity and callous disregard for others aren't the only forms of behavior that are contagious; your reactions can be equally powerful in creating the online world you want to live and play in.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Drama Mamas







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 13)
(cutaia) Aug 6th 2010 4:08PM
The pull/drop group thing NEEDS to be fixed by Blizzard. I've seen this a ton of times. Not so much upon zoning in, but mainly when a tank gets pissed off cause he disagrees with someone or something equally stupid.
Can't they implement something simple? A hidden debuff upon initiating aggro, that stops you from dropping group until you've been out of combat for a period of time? Sure, we might have to deal with shadowmelds or feign death unless they can think of something for those, but God...even stopping some of these would be better than nothing.
Grovinofdarkhour Aug 6th 2010 4:11PM
Easily fixed, if Blizzard gives a damn.
There are a bajillion other things in this game that you cannot do if in combat.
Just give the "Teleport out of Dungeon" button this limitation, and voila! Problem solved.
RetadinMan Aug 6th 2010 4:11PM
A fix for those would be to drop aggro, but not combat.
Rubella Aug 6th 2010 4:17PM
An appropriate fix would be for the offending person to be ported into an enemy faction city. The offender would be, of course, flagged, and possess a two hour debuff. This would be calculated in played time, so no logging to out-wait the debuff. Finally, the offender's hearth stone should be removed from their bag.
PvE version of the deserter debuff, but with teeth.
Rakah Aug 6th 2010 4:38PM
Tank drops are pretty easy to deal with if your lucky to play the right class.
1. Judge the fight; Sometimes the tanks that pull and drop won't actually pull enough to kill anyone. maybe pop some defensive cooldowns and nuke away.
2. if all else fails run away; many classes have cooldowns, feign death, invisibility etc. use them if there is no hope
3. Submit a ticket to a GM; yes blizzard can do something about individual cases (harrasment) and yes they may take further measures if more people submit tickets.
Rakah Aug 6th 2010 4:43PM
By the way i'd like to point out to people that the tank does not have to drop group to achieve the same results. A pally for example may pull a large pack then pop divine shield to drop threat and kill the group. Furthermore if they do this early in the instance they can't be kicked until the stupid timer has run out.
Hollow Leviathan Aug 6th 2010 4:46PM
I'm pretty sure this is behavior appropriate for reporting for griefing. I report everyone I see who tries to deliberately ruin a run.
V Magius Aug 6th 2010 5:18PM
I'm thinking a nice glitch where your character falls outside the world and it takes a week to get your character back. Don't want to lose your character for a week with that ICC run coming up, then stop being a baby and act like an adult.
I would include DCing, but that might affect some people who actually DC'd getting screwed.
West Aug 6th 2010 5:53PM
I don't know what it is about CoS but it is the griefer paradise.
I've been in numerous groups where we zone in, agree to skip intro (I ALWAYS ask), and start the event, only to have tank/healer teleport out of the dungeon but stay in group. it is so frustrating since there isn't much to do in response.
i've reported those who specifically said in /p that they were their to grief / taunt the group since there is concrete proof of their poor behavior.
would be nice if blizzard gave them a public perma ban... maybe hang their head up in org instead of ony's head..
Drakkenfyre Aug 6th 2010 6:00PM
Grovin, you CAN'T teleport out if you are in combat. Try it after you complete an instance. After everyone leaves, aggro something and try porting out. It says "You can't teleport out while in combat."
I don't know if dropping group changes this, but while you are in the group, you can't teleport out.
Sleutel Aug 6th 2010 6:01PM
Sometimes people have a legitimate reason for going RIGHT NOW. And this still won't solve the problem of someone who just completely closes out of the game.
One way to fix this would be to make it so that if a party member DCs or drops group while in combat, any mob whose threat table they're on resets as if the person had died or dropped combat (i.e., HP back to full and returns to its normal position) and is "frozen" for some short period of time--10 to 30 seconds--to give anybody still in the instance a chance to back out of aggro range.
Dicon Aug 6th 2010 6:18PM
Fixed by blizzard ??? sure it was the problem was made by blizzard, if you look at any HC dungon nowadays they are ran by at least 4 out 5 overgeared people and they just run through the dungon no problems now some make alts and think thats is how all dungons are mwnt to be ran (not just tanks)
apart from that i dont see any comments here that actualy help Shaman Scared Silly with her issue so i'd like to try.
When you go into LFD to heal i belive you have the most influance (i tank and heal in LFD) on how the run goes when i tank before every pull my first check is the healers mana bar second check is mini map ...is the healer here, even if we dont talk you still tell me when to pull and how many to pull. the one thing i think you are lacking when you heal is confidance, try to remember at your level you have 2 heals one big one small, blizzard deisgned the game for those 2 heals to take care of any healing the tank needs in the dungon if the tank run ahead and pulls a big group and you all wipe try /w him/her and say hi mate can you pull a few less next time i cant keep up with all those hits ...if he try's to blame you in /p chat piont out his mistake in front of every one
If you come across another tank like tank2 in your mail first thing put him on ignore second just say to the group hi i have and can heal this dungon no problems my last group had a bit of a problem with this tank the last run i was on he's one of those ones that think they can pull a whole dungon on there own you know the type, so im sorry but i wont run with him again please feel free to kick me or if you want to kick the tank ill stay with you till we get a proper one
Grovinofdarkhour Aug 6th 2010 6:18PM
My bad, Drakken. I wouldn't know that because I only use that button when the run is done :)
Well in that case, sub in "drop group" and it still applies - if they got a message that they couldn't drop group while in combat, they wouldn't pull that crap anymore.
foust117 Aug 6th 2010 6:45PM
The problem isn't porting out, it is straight up dropping the group (teleport out doesn't work in-combat by my last reckoning). Corporeal punishment aside, griefing will exist so long as the griefers think they can get away with what they do. I don't want Blizzard to try and fix every little problem with the LFD tool. My imagination says that anything they do would just be bad business. Not all griefers are going to grief all the time, but it stinks when there is a surge of them.
Myself, I try to give a few days if I had a bad experience with a group. Leveling my priest, I ran into a lot of players that were bad, good with egos, and bad with egos. 3 dungeons into the night told me if it was going to be good or bad. Good nights I kept healing, bad nights I went to offspec shadow and just solo'd for a bit.
I didn't let the bad experiences rain on my parade. I just tried to be the best I could be at what I did (disc healing) and if what started as a cluster**** ended in a save, I was pretty much the best healer ever. Then sometimes the cluster****s just ended as they were and I would log off and do something else. I made a point of making leveling my priest something I did to unwind. I had raiding to make me uptight, etc.
Specifically for leveling healers, taking a break from a bad night is good. As soon as you get the feeling "it's going to be one of those nights," just leave group, take some time to relax, and give it another night or so.
As for mages, I stopped doing my randoms because of real life and Starcraft 2, but when I did do them, the few times I ran into "that tank" I would just leave before I got killed, pop invisibility, or just try to make the best of a bad situation. Dungeon finder is a long wait, but retention of sanity trumps it.
Wix Aug 6th 2010 6:56PM
Foust gives good advice...a little break from the frustration is a good idea.
loop_not_defined Aug 6th 2010 8:23PM
Blizzard also needs to fix cross-realm ignores. As it is, I have to sit people down and explain how it works - I really shouldn't. It needs to be a lot more accessible than it is, so these funsuckers (a word that has three more letters than it ought to) might actually feel the backlash of being a jackass.
It would also be nice if the Ignore list also allowed you to make comments. After putting someone on ignore, I'll never hear anything from them, and likely never even see them, for a long time. The very nature of the Ignore list *ensures* I won't remember who they are or what they did months later, which is a shame.
thpthpthp Aug 6th 2010 8:35PM
I agree with Dicon.
The Tank may be the "leader" or "head" of the group but the healer is the neck that moves the head any way he/she wants.
vazhkatsi Aug 7th 2010 12:01AM
but cross realm ignore is simple, it works the same as regular ignore, just right click their name.
loop_not_defined Aug 7th 2010 12:48AM
@vazhkatsi
Tell me, how do you right-click their name after they've left the group? Do you know something I don't?
Zinn Aug 7th 2010 2:15AM
@loop_not_defined
If they've said something in chat you can still right-click their name from there.