Gold Capped: Ask an auctioneer

I have a bunch of questions and comments piled up in my poor neglected inbox, so today we're going to jump right in and address some of the good ones.
Bernake (awesome name, by the way) writes:
I believe you're talking about this post on cross-faction arbitrage. In fact, it can be extremely profitable to move money and products across the neutral AH. I may have sounded a little negative because it is risky; however, unless you're losing a chunk of your stock to snipers or 20 percent of your gold to the neutral AH cut, it's not a bad thing to do. You can just buy to resell, or if you're having trouble finding mats on your home faction, you can use stock from the other side to keep your costs in line.Previously you have established that it is not profitable it to transfer gold frequently across faction. While this is generally true, I play on a server where the Horde population playing at peak hours is no more than 600 people, less than 2,000 active on the server. I was wondering (if that) warrants a change in this policy, as the Alliance have over 9,000 active players with at least 600 on throughout the day and over 2,000 playing at peak hours on any given day. I was considering moving into the Alliance glyph market, as the Horde glyph market is quite small. I was wondering if you would support this move as well as give some insight?
Alex writes:
First off, no matter what you do about him, it's what you do despite him that will have the biggest impact. You should really make sure you never have a single market that can be taken from you by one person. In the real world, we call this diversification, and if you want to be immune to having someone take your lunch, you need to branch out.Right now on my server, a character is posting all his glyphs for under 5 gold and undercutting by nearly 40-50 gold [editor's note: I assume you mean silver]. I asked him what he was trying to do, because I am one of the three biggest glyph salesmen on my server, and he said "killing the market." Also, he said that he is getting out of the market and just selling what he has left. My question to you is how should I handle this person? Should I just buy out all his supply, knowing that I can profit off them? Or should I just let people buy his and post mine once his are gone?
With respect to the situation at hand, my first thought was the same as yours: Buy him out and resell once he's gone. After reflecting on it, though, I'd have to advise against that course of action. 5g glyphs are still 500 percent profit (depending on how you do the math), and if you literally buy everything he sells, he'll just go and make more. In fact, if I wanted to make money that way, I'd tell my competitors the same thing, expecting them to try and buy me out and hoping I disappear.
The harsh reality is that glyph walling can always make it so that nobody makes any money. It's a simple procedure to do, and if someone has the time to dedicate to crafting all the glyphs it takes, there's not much his competition can do about it. The eventual goal of every glyph wall, however, is to push so many people into other markets that when the waller starts posting at pre-wall prices, they have little to no competition. My advice: Configure QA with a high threshold and 48-hour auctions, and make sure you're there when he either runs out of steam or actually leaves (if he wasn't lying to make a sale).
Krem writes:
Eternal earth is a component in many different things. If it's really that cheap, see whether you can make Stoneguard Bands to disenchant. It is also a component in Titansteel Bars, Eternal Belt Buckles and a bunch of components of the saronite shuffle. If you limit your options to one single market, you're certainly going to have issues with flooding (which is fundamentally what you describe).I have recently gotten my engineering to 450 and had a LOT of leftover eternal earth. Since the earth is worthless on my server -- just over a gold each stack on good days -- I'm considering nuking the bullet market. I have, you see, over 300 stacks of bullets. However, I'm constantly being undercut, often by silly prices (from 10 gold to 3 gold for a stack). This isn't a problem, except that I've filled my guild tabs. Now then, I'm considering simply flooding the market with excessively cheap bullets (say, 100 stacks). I know this will probably damage the market, but bullets are going away anyway.
The pros I can think of are that some of them will actually sell, it might drive the competitors away, and I'll have more space for other stuff. The cons are, however, that selling so many stacks is going to cost a bunch. Overall, I'm probably looking at a loss selling many, since I can't guarantee that enough will be sold. Then there's the damage to the economy. (And damage to the economy, but I'll be hiding behind an alt. Hurr.)
Is it worth it, oh great goblin? Don't really need the money, but vendoring all my beauties would be painful. And don't ask why I have so many. I didn't do my homework.
Ammo is another weird market, because none of us hunters ever buy small batches, and there are enough of us that you'll probably see some servers capable of buying 500 stacks on a raid night. Of course, most of us (my venerable dwarven podcast co-host notwithstanding) use arrows. It also has a terrible bag-space-to-gold-value ratio. Still, 3g is not a "silly" undercut -- by your own account, the mats are worth 20s. Anything above 1g is a phenomenal profit margin, to be honest.
My advice? Keep undercutting the undercutters, down to cost if you have to. Get your stock back down to manageable levels, then start pricing as high as you can. Here's the important part: Only make enough for a day or two of sales. A single stack of eternal earths expands into 100 slots of ammo. Just because you can make that much doesn't mean you should. Use the saved space to, for example, sell non-combat engineering pets.
Lastly, I'm not a goblin; I'm an auctioneer. Goblins are an unfairly cool race denied to the Alliance, and I'm someone who makes money by participating in the largest (or coolest -- I forget where I read the report) virtual economy in history.
Filed under: Economy, Gold Capped






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
tarvis2 Aug 18th 2010 10:20PM
i wish i could actually make money the way it is shown in this article i have read every gold capped article since the beginning and my giuld bank with me and my 2 friend(who are more or less taking a months break form active playing atm) have been trying really hard to make money and i literally done everything possible i can think of but i am still stuck at below 20k at all times
Methuus Aug 18th 2010 10:47PM
Well, the actual thing you do to make gold is pretty mundane in description. The way most people that make big money do it is:
Research the market on your server and find something crafted for which the following is true:
- the mats are readily available (either through the AH or a supplier farmer), and
- the mats cost less than the crafted product usually sells for on the AH (even if it's a small amount)
(note, you may have to level up a crafting profession, but that's part of the goblin game)
and then make a lot of the crafted item you identified. You won't make a lot of money on each sale, but the goal it to make it up in volume.
Then you need to repeat this for several different items (same profession or different professions) so you are diversified.
Most of Euripides' columns (and most good gold making bloggers) are about how to make this process as efficient as possible (through addon automation) and how to handle other players doing the same thing. But the basic idea is pretty simple.
Methuus Aug 18th 2010 10:50PM
Oops, forgot to add one other point:
- the crafted item needs to sell reasonably frequently on your server (no point making something that only sells once a month)
Basil Berntsen Aug 19th 2010 7:57AM
When I got started I felt the same way, but then I started keeping track of how much my inventory was worth and how much I was spending, and was able to crawl out of the hole.
Try selling your inventory more aggressively (but don't cut your profits too much), and every time you spend money on developing a tradeskill, count that toward your goal.
Tural Aug 18th 2010 10:21PM
Why would you assume Alex meant silver? That makes his question make less sense. Undercutting by 50 silver is not "killing the market." He meant 40-50g, which is commonplace for my realm as well. Many glyphs sell for around 50g consistently.
Tural Aug 18th 2010 10:29PM
500% profit or 5000% profit, a tough choice.
Telling him to post for 48h and not buy out the stock is terrible advice. If he doesn't buy that guy's glyphs out, other sellers who post by blindly undercutting the lowest auctions are going to add more at that low value, and then set the market price low. If he buys it out early, and the guy is really just getting rid of a surplus, then he would stand to make a lot. Not buying them out is going to put a major dent in his current income in the long run, because of the fact that there's not just these two sellers in the market, and others are going to set the long-term price low unless he buys it out.
Supernerd Aug 18th 2010 10:41PM
Cute dog.
StormDance Aug 18th 2010 10:43PM
because he can't undercut by 40-50g if he posted all the glyphs at 5g.
Oriflame Aug 18th 2010 11:21PM
Storm - he can undercut by that much, posting at 5g, if the original price was 55g. I made a ton of money on my server when I realized a lot of glyphs were regularly priced at 70+ gold. I undercut by half, made a bunch! (then a friend blew everyone, including me outta the market, posting at 5g a glyph for a while! Bam! now he owns the market pretty hard)
Sleutel Aug 18th 2010 11:25PM
This is what I was coming to post. Seriously, let's look at what was said:
"a character is posting all his glyphs for under 5 gold and undercutting by nearly 40-50 gold [editor's note: I assume you mean silver]."
Someone undercutting your 5g50s auction with a 5g auction is not something you complain about. Someone undercutting your 50g auction with a 5g one, on the other hand... That's everything I hate about these "post single stacks of everything for 10% of everyone else's price" guides.
Heilig Aug 18th 2010 11:51PM
"(then a friend blew everyone, including me outta the market, posting at 5g a glyph for a while! Bam! now he owns the market pretty hard)"
I LOVE IT when people glyph wall. You sit back and wait until they run out of mats to keep it up or the competition dries up like they wanted and prices come back. Once the prices are back up, it's usually just the waller and you. I had a 50K week the last time somebody did that on my server. It was fantastic. I would log in 3-4 times a day to 100+ glyphs for 30g+. It was about 4 days before the competition realized he had stopped walling.
ggrooms Aug 19th 2010 1:44AM
Why would he stop selling if he is making a profit off you. I personally listed a total 5 glyphs for about 4 months that were at the 50g market for only 5g. At the time icethorn was 10g a stack. I was making a ton of profit until that became the standard price. Someone at first tried the buyout but it failed in that I would just re-post, investing the money in more herb.
And guess what,since then (about a year) nearly every glyph on my server is now about 5-10g. I'd like to think I helped in that but I know it takes more than one. I laugh at the ones who bought all of my glyphs hoping for a big payoff later.
Lesson is that while you can make a huge profit every once in a while, it is better profit to sell more at an affordable price. Call it Walmarting.
ggrooms Aug 19th 2010 1:45AM
I should make it more clear, I made sure 5 glyphs stayed posted.
Paulie Hatch Aug 19th 2010 5:53AM
What server do you sit on? I would love to sell glyphs for that price, on Darkspear EU (Horde, which is the massively underpopulated side) I just about get away with selling for 4g on a good night and 2.5g average.
wutsconflag Aug 19th 2010 1:27PM
I, too, would love to know where these 50-70g per glyph servers are. Of the two servers I normally play on, the first (my primary) rarely has glyphs above 6g, and that's only because everyone's bought out the 2-3g ones and are hitting mine. The other one shows prices ranging from 2g to 20g, but I can tell it's on the way down (which is why I haven't swapped servers, actually).
Sei Aug 19th 2010 2:50PM
Something to remember about each server is not just the glyph price, but mat price.
Most popular glyphs sell for an average of 10-15g on my server. Before those of you that sell for 4g a glyph get jealous, realize that Northrend herbs are usually 20-35g per stack for me. Still a great profit margin, but higher glyph prices usually seem to come from lower pop servers with less of an herb market.
Kamryn Aug 18th 2010 10:27PM
You should have a basics edition every once in a while. Economics is just one of those things I don't "get". I can read and re-read a statement, and understand it, sorta..but not get the "why's". Also more examples. I love analogies and examples. Otherwise, I enjoy reading your articles, although most of the time I walk away confused and not sure what I was supposed to learn.
Thanks!
kmarcy1729 Aug 18th 2010 11:01PM
I've always wondered about Blizzard's take on cross-faction arbitrage. On the one hand, we aren't (except for BoAs) allowed to mail cross-faction. On the other hand, it's easy to circumvent via the neutral AH. Any hint of anything coming down the pike to change this for the expansion?
Thoorin Aug 19th 2010 6:30AM
Easy?
How so?
I tried last week. If the toon is on the same account, you get the error message if you try to buy auctions you made on your opposing-faction toon. You will need a help of a guildie or you will need to have a separate account... at least, that is the situation on Steamwheedle Cartel-EU.
At least you can send BoAs directly now.
MDrules Aug 19th 2010 10:43AM
I wondered the same thing. I got a response from Basil:
"This does not break the ToS, and in the above linked post I wrote on it, I cover some techniques that you can use to limit your sniping losses. Just so long as you lose less than the neutral AH cut on average, you're in the money ;)"
I make a ton of gold by buying stuff from one faction push it thru the Neutral AH for 1 copper (which I don't get charged any fee always get my 1 copper back in the 'sale').
I've only ever got snipped once. My usual problem is people killing the auctioneer.