A City of Heroes-style mentoring system "in the long-term plan" for Cataclysm
by Michael Sacco 
Aug 20th 2010 at 2:00PM
Those of you who've played other MMOs (yes, they exist) might recall a feature from City of Heroes (yes, CoH did it before EQ2) that let you temporarily level down your character to a friend's level, allowing you to do any kind of level-relevant content together. Well, guess what? Blizzard is planning to let you do the same thing in a Cataclysm content patch, avoiding the type of situation you see above.
The Escapist recently interviewed Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street about Cataclysm, and this exchange took place:
We hadn't heard anything about this feature before, but it sounds great -- this way, you can play with a lowbie friend without drastically reducing his experience gain, and you'll always have something to do together. Heck, it could even pave the way for making old raids relevant again. I'm excited to see how this plays out!Ghostcrawler:
A very simple thing we've done is just put on your character panel what phase you're in. So that you can look and be like "Oh, so the reason I can't see you is because we're in different phases." Long-term, we're trying to work on a system where you can actually go back and forward a little bit. You might be able to scale your character down levels in order to go play with a friend, and even redo quests that you've done before.
Part of the reason we're able to do that is because of the technology we originally developed for heirloom items, which are items that scale. And then for the Cataclysm expansion, we've changed spells, so they also scale with level. So instead of having ranks now, your fireball will just get more powerful as you gain levels. So since you can scale both class spells and items really easily, now we think we can actually let you lower your level down if you want to play with somebody else.
I kinda wanted to have that for Cataclysm launch, but it's a feature we're working on.
John Funk:
So do you think that's saying that, like cross-server dungeons, it might be patched in before the next expansion?
Ghostcrawler:
Yeah. I mean, we gotta get this one out the door first to know how much we need to do for the patches that come afterwards, but it's definitely in the long-term plan.
World of Warcraft: Cataclysm will destroy Azeroth as we know it; nothing will be the same! In WoW.com's Guide to Cataclysm, you can find out everything you need to know about WoW's third expansion, from brand new races to revamped quests and zones. Visit our Cataclysm news category for the most recent posts having to do with the Cataclysm expansion.Filed under: News items, Cataclysm
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Awesome McAwesome Aug 20th 2010 2:04PM
"May" "Eventually"
Michael Sacco Aug 20th 2010 2:05PM
"Scaling down levels probably won't be possible when Cataclysm is released, but it's a feature that WILL BE COMING EVENTUALLY and should help players of differing levels adventure together more easily."
Chris S Aug 20th 2010 2:10PM
At least he didn't say "Soon".
Meatwadz Aug 20th 2010 2:17PM
Sorry for being a Debbie Downer here ... but this seems likely to be a paid feature, similar to R.A.F. but without the prerequisite of purchasing a new account. Possibly scheduled for release in conjunction with the dance studio? :P
kasapina Aug 20th 2010 2:20PM
On a related note, the article name seems misleading to me. When I read "cataclysm will include mentoring" I understand "cataclysm comes packaged with a mentoring system", which isn't true at all. It's more like "a post-cataclysm patch may eventually add mentoring".
Adam Aug 20th 2010 2:31PM
@meatwadz Close but not really...or at all. In CoH you could bring along a second player of a much different (higher or lower) level than you as a "sidekick". The game would automatically scale the two of you to the same level.
So say you and your friend Bob roll new toons and decide to level together. Flash forward two weeks, Bob has gotten bored and leveled on his own while you weren't on. Now that he is partially fused with infinity, questing & dungeoning together loses some of its allure and a lot of its XP gain.
If this is implemented one of you will turn into a giant heirloom basically so that Bob will scale down to level 20 instead of level 9001, making it a bit more fun when you're leveling together.
Big question, though, is if experience gains will scale as well (will you get level 20 XP while teamed or level 9001?), and if you'd scale up or down.
Oh and like Awesome said: "May" != "Will". I "may" try to level an Orc shaman by using him to conquer Ironforge, but that doesn't mean I "will".
MazokuRanma Aug 20th 2010 2:43PM
@Sacco
Cataclysm - MAY - also - EVENTUALLY - include a system that allows players to scale down their character's level in order to help newer players.
You can't just keep quoting one half of his statement as gospel while completely ignoring his initial statements. Dance studios are also still supposedly coming... eventually. They're how far behind now? Two years? These people have relevant points, considering his own statement contradicts itself concerning when/if this system will be implemented.
I love the idea of WoW implementing a mentoring system, but I'm certainly not banking on it solely based on GC's nebulous remarks here. There's really now way to tell whether he's avoiding specifics here because it's just an idea he likes that hasn't even been remotely touched on yet, or because part of his job is to ensure he doesn't promise people unimplemented ponies as standard operating procedure.
TL;DR: Your quote is invalid as proof when taken in full context of the statement. May and eventually are absolutely accurate when discussing WoW features.
doug Aug 20th 2010 2:54PM
You know what else was "coming eventually?" Dance studios.
Grovinofdarkhour Aug 20th 2010 2:58PM
Downvoting the Sackman? Now I've seen it all.
Michael Sacco Aug 20th 2010 3:22PM
Added "eventually" to the headline just so I stop seeing these same comments posted over and over. Not that it'll stop anyone with an overwhelming desire to be right about something, of course.
Boobah Aug 20th 2010 3:45PM
Tom Chilton recently said that the Dance Studio is, more or less, busy work for the animation guys. When they're not working on anything else, they work on dances. And they may have enough to patch it in during Cataclysm. Then again, they might not. But, apparently, work continues.
Gots to agree, though, that despite it both being a nifty idea and something they're working on, at this point the headline certainly implies that it's something Cataclysm is supposed to launch with, which it's not, which implies failure by whoever wrote that headline.
Also have to agree that how much it'll be used depends a lot on the deatils. Sure, heirlooms and abilities scale, but what do you do about non-heirloom gear? And do you lose access to talents/spells that someone your effective level can't have?
Not that I expect anyone to have the answers to this stuff right now; just saying that it'll matter.
feniks9174 Aug 20th 2010 4:04PM
@ Boobah -
I think you missed part of the point when he references heirloom scaling. If you artificially drop your level to mentor a lowbie, then obivously your heirlooms will scale down as well. However, they iLvL scaling of heirlooms is simply based on a system that any item could tap into when dropping down. So your T13 chest piece with 98785423 Strength on it, when you drop down to level 20, will have more like 16 Strength. You won't be unable to equip the gear, it will just be rebudgeted to the artificial level.
And I can't say exactly how their system will work (duh), but in City of Heroes you DID lose access to spells and abilities that you couldn't have at that level. The most annoying part of this is that, when respeccing, you had to sort of plan ahead so that you kept as many spells as possible. A WoW analog would be something like this . . . A cookie cutter Demonology build is 0/56/15. However, if you respecced into Demo at 80 and, instead of grabbing Metamorphosis with your 51st talent point (lvl60) instead just worked your way down the tree and grabbed it with your 56th (lvl65), lowering your level to 64 would remove your access to Meta since, as far as the game is concerned, you didn't actually have the spell at 64.
Derek Aug 20th 2010 4:22PM
@Boobah,
Assuming they do this (which would be awesome), and assuming they are really basing it on the system in City of Heroes, then, Yes, you will lose access to abilities that your effective level wouldn't have. So, when you "mentor" your level 85 Priest to heal Wailing Caverns for your level 20 friend, you'll become a level 20 priest just like any other. In a way, that might be annoying but no more annoying than making an alt priest to level with your friend and still not being anything more than a level 20 priest (I have that happen all the time with shamans -- I reach for riptide to heal stockades and. . . oh, yeah, I don't have that yet, durr). So, it wouldn't give you a mini-85, but it would give you a 20 without having to level another one.
As to the gear issue, City of Heroes doesn't really provide much of a guide for that as CoH doesn't really have gear. You design a costume for cosmetic purposes, and then you improve your abilities by socketing "enhancements" which function more like gems (socketed into individual abilities, rather than gear) than gear as such. So, scaling "increases damage for fireball" is doubtless much easier than scaling all the myriad stats on your tier gear. Still, it sounds like they mean to make a system whereby your non-heirloom gear will magically (maybe a wizard shows up to do it? hehe) scale *as if* it were heirloom gear, even though it isn't, probably with temporary tooltips to tell you what Tier 12 does at level 10. If they have a table with relevant gear types coded as heirlooms that the system can substitute for your gear's actual stats, I imagine it could be done. After all, if this meant that you had to carry around separate sets of gear for each mentor-level you wanted to play, very few people would use this system, and I think the devs must know that (they're pretty sharp!).
I wonder what they'd do with talents? Hmm.
BigBadGooz Aug 20th 2010 4:40PM
Like dance studios
Amaxe Aug 21st 2010 2:23AM
They could do it, and it would be a good feature (I've had so many leveling pacts fall apart). The question is, will they?
Blizzard has a habit of promising the moon, and then seeing the implementation fall short. The dance studios is one obvious thing, but even with things implemented we've had things like Vehicle quests (the Jar jar Binks of WoW) and arenas that pretty much failed to deliver what they claimed. Real ID turned into a real fiasco making some of us activate parental controls.
So before we get too excited, lets remember two things:
1) Will they implement it?
2) If they do, will it suck?
I hope the answer is yes to number 1 and no to number 2, but we have no idea right now.
brian Aug 20th 2010 2:06PM
This sounds really awesome. I liked running people through things, and now that's not really very viable. I like running with them anyway, and sometimes it gets annoying when friends out-level each other.
Or I can just see what it feels like to restart my character, rather than having to make an alt of the same class I already play.
snowleopard233 Aug 20th 2010 2:45PM
I’m the same way. I have a handful of alts I created to RAF with my friends. They’re all hanging out at level 40-60 because they simply didn’t click. I’d much rather take my main along for the ride and help them out.
Noyou Aug 20th 2010 4:16PM
Am I missing something here or would it be too hard to just un-equip some/all gear and quest away with them? You can even create a custom gear setting with the equipment manager setting from your UI. One click and "boom" good to go :)
brian Aug 20th 2010 5:52PM
Well, there's the fact that grouping splits xp gained in some way, and splitting the xp gained between you and a max level character is basically throwing away at least half the xp. I think it's more than half if your friend's far above you, actually.
So they're allowing a higher level character to group with a lower one while: A) not ruining the xp gain of the lower character, B) have your spells scale down so you aren't making everything trivial, and C) possibly even allow you to queue for dungeons with that person, which isn't possible whatsoever without a mechanic like this.
Those first two are a definite effect of a mechanic like this, but that last one is just my speculation. I really hope it's something that will be possible after adding a mentoring system, but perhaps "fooling" the LFG requirements with the mentoring system (ie: being too high of a level, modified downward with the mentoring system) won't be as easy as it seems.
winterhawk Aug 20th 2010 2:08PM
I really hope they give us more bag space if they do this. Sure, it'd be fun to run Black Temple again (or whatever) at the correct toon level and gear level, but my bags are already overflowing--now I have to hang on to old gear sets too? Heirlooms can't do everything...