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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsGuest Post: The death of in-game interaction
by Dean Poisso 
Aug 22nd 2010 at 2:00PM
WoW's evolution has changed the course of both MMO game design and the landscape of the MMO player base in dramatic ways. By exploring the road most traveled, WoW has led the way from the roots of tabletop pen-and-paper RPGs and early MMO tabletop simulations into MMOs as virtual RPG themeparks.
Despite WoW's fantastic success on many fronts, in its evolution toward catering to the most common, casual style of play, it's removed much of the human interaction that made early MMO experiences special. Today's WoW is slick, seamless and streamlined. There is nothing one player can achieve that another player cannot also relatively easily achieve. Yet while players in today's WoW maintain that this thinly clad, egalitarian experience is "best," in reality, what we see is a continuous striving for distinction free from the confines of the game design itself. The ever-present GearScore sniff test has streamlined the need for player interaction to the point that interaction is barely needed at all.
In fact, it might be this very streamlining that has caused this MMO behemoth to slide away from the real magic of the early MMOs, to become a sanitized gaming experience that only barely acknowledges its need for virtual face-to-face gameplay. I miss the real interaction with my fellow players that speaks to the oldest traditions of what spawned MMOs: tabletop RPGs. I want player interactions to drive the game experience, from raiding to crafting to questing. The biggest villains and heroes of an MMO should be players, not pre-scripted heroes and playerless cut scenes. The next big MMO, I hope, can make this happen.
Player skill interactions
A class- and skill-driven economy One of the things I miss in an MMO is the face-to-face sale of class-specific skills and buffs. It's a level of interaction that fosters community.
Deep crafting While having raiding instances drop the latest and greatest items (as justly they should) is fun, making your own items should be equally rewarding. While I wouldn't remove epix purple dropz entirely, keeping epics truly rare makes them special. A deeper crafting experience would be fostered by rare and dangerous spawn locations. Why can't there be more significant seasonal crafting materials available only during certain times of the calendar cycle? Why can't skilled player services carry equal or greater importance than those of mere NPCs? Why can't players form crafting guilds with factions and intrigues of their own?
Dynamic guild content: Meta-factions
Players: a vital game resource Again, players and player guilds should serve vital functions for the game itself. Meta-guilds in major social hubs (for example, a thieves guild, a mage guild, a blacksmithing guild) provide a framework for faction-specific services and rewards, driven by players and player guilds. A player guild might be associated directly with any of these meta-guild factions, with suitable responsibilities, internal requirements and commensurate rewards. Solo players could participate as individuals. The game developers could control meta-guild relationships within certain parameters: PvE- and PvP-oriented quests, in-game directives, faction-ranked responsibilities for specific players ... (Guild war between the thieves guild and the guild of mages, anyone?) This would allow guild leveling and player factioning to be driven by the players, for the players. Guided by the game developers, this system can generate nearly endless content and offer something that has never been handled well in MMOs: intrigue.
Taking faction deeper with PvP Players become involved in PvP not only by something as simple as flagging for combat but through choices such as which faction they will ally with. It is possible to be a casual adventurer -- but this decision also means opting out of the skullduggery and intrigues some factions might require. (Choose your friends wisely.)
Player-created cities Player-generated, self-sustaining content breathes life into MMO cities. Allowing players to create their own cities tied into the player meta-guild system loosely described above could provide another source of near-limitless content. Players should be able to replicate much of the design content found in the game for their own uses. These areas should be pre-planned in the design of the MMO, and these regions could be instanced.
PvP/PvE interactivity Why must PvE and PvP be completely separate pursuits? I would love to see traditional WoW-style PvE instances that can spark a PvP event in which groups can queue to go head-to-head for better rewards, faction goals and greater experience.
Risk equals reward
Death and taxes Death is meaningless in WoW. Why not bring back that meaning? Make game death its own experience in some cases. Or bring back experience loss or some other meaningful consequence, so that players will strive to avoid death. Death should have gravitas.
Incarceration! As part of the faction system, players who run afoul of their meta-guilds or enemy factions might be placed in a prison instance with other player inmates. Create interactive content in prison. Jailbreaks! Pit-fights! Gambling! Quests -- PvP, PvE and faction-related content! Where are rogues from the guild of thieves supposed to go after getting busted? Perhaps there are rare crafting mats found only in certain prisons (or deep in the pockets of certain prisoners). Perhaps there are rare skills and knowledges that can only be learned from the scurrilous scum who've learned to make prison a lucrative business. Prison is a dire but sometimes rewarding place ... And yeah. There's more death.
Everything counts
Virtual life in Azeroth has become too institutionalized, favoring automated systems over player interaction. As a gaming nerd with a handful of dice and a pencil, I realize now that WoW (which ultimately attempts to simulate pen-and-paper RPGs) has possibly removed the very essence of the multiplayer experience. It's done many things fabulously well, but what I'd like to explore is the interaction between my fellow players within the context of the game. Every mundane activity should be be an opportunity for some sort of interactive experience.
Instead of interactions akin to chatting with the people in line at the next theme ride instance, the next MMO will rely on the human element to keep the possibilities dangerously unknown. I want my next MMO to make me gape in fear and wonder what's behind that door. I want my guildmates to pull my ass out of the fire at the last moment, not save the day by reminding me to stay out of the goo on the floor during phase two. I want to smell the whiff of danger at the entrance of that mineshaft yawning before me. I don't want to find myself yawning at that same mineshaft as I run past ... ever.
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Reader Comments (Page 4 of 8)
Boobah Aug 22nd 2010 8:38PM
City of Heroes death penalty was a huge step in the right direction. You couldn't backslide; you were always continuing to advance every time you earned XP. Admittedly, if you were actually racing to the endgame (something they were actually talking about seriously implementing in the expansion that just dropped... in a game older than WoW) I guess earning half-experience for a while could be annoying, but I more often sought it out to avoid out-leveling the area before I did all the missions.
On the other hand, you earned achievements for dying. I'm just as glad that didn't make it to WoW.
And it's way better than EQ at launch, where all the gear and money on your corpse... was on your corpse. You made your corpse run in the flesh, without any gear, to a place where you'd just died. Hope you didn't fall into a bottomless pit! Oh yeah, THAT was the apotheosis of fun.
Heather Aug 31st 2010 12:42AM
Word!
Dude Aug 22nd 2010 3:11PM
We'll always have the trade channel.
Merus Aug 22nd 2010 3:14PM
Going to run down the list point by point here:
* A class- and skill-driven economy: the big problem here is multitasking. For a face-to-face economy to work, there needs to be enough people actively participating in the economy, at all times of the day. The game pretty much demands that professions are only undertaken as a hobby - you don't earn experience from professions, and so you aren't incentivised to spend most of your time trying to ply the market. Many players do, of course, through the AH, but there you'll still have the same problem that they're only on one character. Finally, it's unfair to the players who play at odd hours that they can't participate in the economy because of their RL schedule. Most MMOs I've seen that have a robust economic system (like EVE) generally have automated vendors, and they do community building in other ways.
Deep crafting: The original WoW certainly had this sort of thing, and it's probably telling that it's been nerfed out of existence. The problem, chiefly, is the crafting model that WoW uses, where items are combined into a predictable end result once a bar fills up. Making the items harder to acquire just locks players out of the crafting side, which suppresses competition. The problem is not acquiring the items, but everything else - the act of crafting has no depth to it, and the created items can't vary in any way, except if it's a low-level green with a random enchantment on it. The number of problems Blizzard's had with the interaction between crafted goods and raid drops suggests that 'deep' crafting, with variable quality goods, should stay well away from there - but there's certainly latitude for that sort of thing to come from raid consumables, for instance. Still, as I mentioned, it's not really a focus of the game.
Players: a vital game resource: There's a theory going around that players judge MMOs based on the first one that they've played, and suggest ideas that recreate their previous MMO, even if the idea was directly responsible for driving them from the game. This idea sounds like one of those, as if it comes from a game where Guild Wars are the norm. I have my suspicions as to what that game is. Class-based guild wars will just end up frustrating, because many classes are designed as natural counters to others - and no-one really wants to tangle with the rogues' guild. As for quests, it's hard to see how this is an improvement on the factions we already have - class quests can't be too complex because they can't be shared with friends, and profession quests, well, already exist. Besides, the system would have to be administered by the developers, across two dozen guilds, across hundreds of servers, including ones that are in different languages the developers don't speak, all to foster a sense of community that's far better handled by just making player guilds more cohesive - which is exactly what's happening in Cataclysm. There may be room to have guilds make their mark on the world, but this does happen already - I've seen several instances of guilds claiming Wintergrasp as their own and ensuring that they hold it. Perhaps the server community you've seen just sucks. It's entirely possible, and we'll revisit that theme later.
Taking faction deeper with PvP: So what, like Desolace centaur clan PvP? Interesting, but it ignores the reason why faction PvP was implemented in the first place - and why most MMOs since have jumped on board. Having static factions makes PvP accessible - there are clear allies, who will always stay allies, and there are clear enemies, who will always stay enemies. Because the factions stay static, there's an investment there that there won't be if you can choose, and abandon, a faction at will. Players will abandon the losing team as soon as it looks like it's possible for them to lose, which will make PvP less, not more, interesting.
Player-created cities: The chief problem with player-created cities, quite part from the resources required, is that it's hard to say that it really benefits the game as much as it seems to. I've seen a few games with player-created cities, and it's usually implemented as having a 'mayor' who's the chief point of failure, and when they give up or go on holiday the city falls to ruin. You could design around not having a mayor, but then why have one? You could have a guild run the city, certainly, but the chief problem there is transferring ownership. It's a little unfair for one guild to keep the keys to city hall indefinitely, but that goes against the interests of the players who frequent the city, who want stability - they don't want a griefing guild to move the AH to the top of a cliff, for instance. Still, it's certainly not a bad idea, it just requires careful design to make it an asset to the game. Finally, you'd lose the PvP leaders, and as that's something that differentiates WoW from its competitors, it seems like a bad choice to scrap.
PvP/PvE interactivity: "Why must PvE and PvP be completely separate pursuits?" Because some people don't want to do both, and trying to combine them means that they'll have to interact, which means that you'll lose that ability to separate the two. There's latitude for PvEvP - say, a 5x2 man instance that pops for 5 Horde, 5 Alliance, and they have to race each other to the final boss. There's no technical reason why that can't be done past Cataclysm, as far as I can see, although it will have to be through the Dungeon Finder.
Death and taxes: The basic trend here away from harsh death penalties reflects the fundamental truth that in an MMO, and especially one with WoW's combat design, death is extremely likely. Making death more meaningful is all well and good when it's a punishment for poor decisions. But what if you're being griefed? What if you got a couple of unlucky crits? What if you were screwed by a game bug? The other big problem with hard death penalties is that it discourages creativity and experimentation. With no lasting damage to trying something, why not? It might work, and it'll be awesome.
Incarceration!: This is just a terrible idea. Locking players in a small area when they want to be out exploring the world and playing with their friends is anti-fun. It encourages players to just log off and not return.
The chief problem I have with most of these ideas is that they seem to be fairly naive to the way that MMOs work. The author has a picture of the playstyle he has, and thinks that if everyone played like he did it'd be so much fun, but the strength of MMOs is that they cater to lots of different playstyles - Bartle's Hearts, Clubs, Diamonds, Spades is great starter reading on this topic, although design thinking has progressed some since the paper was written.
I can't help but feel that the author would be better server by another MMO which is going for a narrower audience than WoW is. EVE is usually the go-to example, but there's plenty of PvP-focused games that the author would likely be well-served by.
Ominous Aug 22nd 2010 3:21PM
It can be agreed, that not everyone should be able to have / achieve everything, but the highest achievements still cannot usually be achieved by casual players.
A game being slick does not hamper it.
Would you rather have a car that's harder to drive, for the sake of nostalgia?
Gearscore is a crutch for a weak mind, but it doesn't stop you from right-clicking to inspect a character. You might want to, to avoid a character geared for score - rather than function.
As mentioned, you can right-click to inspect. You can also right-click and whisper - a basic step toward interaction within the game.
You want to interact more? Do so.
Don't blame the game for not being able to or for your opportunities having lessened.
omedon666 Aug 22nd 2010 3:24PM
I can't even start... except to agree with a lot of the politely disagreeing posters here, and to link a recent blog post of mine:
http://omedon666.livejournal.com/71966.html
You took me back to the EQ days, master Poisso, and I'm so glad "back" is "back".
WoW is not your game, if these are actually your "for real" suggestions for our beloved game, you really would be best off to leave now. It's only going to move further and further away from you and, no offense, I'm glad for that. Not at your expense, but for the good of the game.
Co-operation is fun and the cornerstone of WoW.
Co-Dependancy is the killer of MMO's, because I'm paying Blizzard, not you, or that guy in trade chat, for my entertainment.
As a long time D&D DM, I can tell you that your ideas will indeed entertain your five person gaming group, who I bet(if you have one) are extremely satisfied with your creativity. WoW needs to think about more than five people, I'm afraid.
Good day, and good luck.
gbpacker Aug 22nd 2010 3:37PM
OK, this is gonna sound mean, but this guest writer is kinda, well, strange. Crafting for the best items in game is just weird to me to be honest. I mean, you should get your best items by killing your most challenging foes, not by buying the materials from the AH. The meta-factions idea is just terrible to be honest. I mean, really? There are PvP events that lead to PvE instances, look at Wintergrasp and Tol Barad in Cata. Player created cities are just as stupid as player housing would be. Something gimmicky that leads to an empty world. And finally, the death risks and jail time is the worst idea I've ever heard. WoW death is simply the best death out of any MMO. Look at Runescape. You lose everything on your person except three of your best items, as defined by the game. Death is severe, nasty, and basically wastes your time. The jail cell this is stupid because people don't want to spend time in it. I'd rather go and do quests and enjoy myself than have to re-obtain items because I died or be arrested.
Noyou Aug 22nd 2010 3:51PM
I dunno. I kind of like the idea of having a class signature BiS be able to be crafted or gained through questing. Not everything mind you but say one item. A ranged weapon for a hunter. A pair of daggers for a rogue. Etc. Kind of like those obtained via class quests but with an epic flair. As far as the crafting aspect of it goes you could reward the tradesman who crafts it bonus points or a pattern unlock. One thing I thought I read is that in Cata there will be crafted items that can be upgraded. This to me sounds like a very cool idea. Imagine you get an item like a shadowmourne and say down the line you can collect some mats for it and take it to a smithy and get say a 20% stat boost and keep using it (as opposed to selling it or have it proudly displayed in your bank). Food for thought :)
MisterRik Aug 22nd 2010 5:50PM
While I agree with the overall response to this article, I think there is merit to the idea of being able to craft "BiS" items. I mean, after all, those awesome items dropped by bosses have to have been crafted by /somebody/ - they didn't just magically appear in the boss's backpack. There's no lore reason why a suitably skilled craftsman who is willing to put in the effort shouldn't be able to craft something equally good. Unless you want to go with the copout that all those epic drops were created by the gods or something like gods.
rkaliski Aug 22nd 2010 11:38PM
Hummm...meaningful death. I remember when I think it was Ultima 3 came out. If you died your character was erased and you had to start over. I simply saved the game to a different disk and boom, return to life. It sucked way back when and it sucks now.
Meaningful death would stiffle people taking a chance and going into an instance or PvP or anything where they will risk losing gold, gear or XP.
The world has changed since the paper and pencil days. A lot of the players don't have long vacations from school or the entire weekend to run an instance. In my guild raids are called because of regulars who can't get out of work because the boss wants them to work late.
The author keeps mentioning intrique. No thank you. Another way of saying intrigue is drama. The game has enough of that now to supply a hundred soaps.
GerardthePriest Aug 22nd 2010 3:44PM
TL;DR version: Casuals have ruined WoW! I want everything to be difficult so that only dedicated, hardcore players like me can have epics! Wah!
I get the appeal of having skill and dedication recognized, but that simply is not the WoW of today, nor will it ever be again. As others have pointed out, Blizzard wants to make money and the bottom 90% of the player base wants to be able to see the whole game without making WoW require more time and energy than the jobs and families many of them have.
Noyou Aug 22nd 2010 3:54PM
Heh. Yeah so they can go raid goldshire/crossroads and brag how it took 5 80s to bring them down. (and really it was 2 80's a 65 :p)
dannyflorida Aug 22nd 2010 3:48PM
I know I may get the "Why are you playing an MMO?" remark, but, quite frankly, I like the less player interaction.
I love WoW, especially the lore and the beautiful game world. I also love playing with other real people -- sometimes, but not most times. Really, the thing I dislike most about WoW is many of the other real people playing. So many players are immature and childish to the point where the less interaction I have with them, the better. The number of these types of players seems to be increasing all the time.
I've had, and continue to have, great times in WoW playing with other real people, but, you know what? I've had even more fun, more times, playing solo.
Heather Aug 31st 2010 12:51AM
Me too
Khirsah Aug 22nd 2010 3:52PM
I used to play pencil and paper D & D with a variety of different dungeon masters. I'll never forget an incident I had with a particularly strict one:
I had made camp for the night, after a day of collecting spell components. I got up the next morning, ate breakfast, and strolled my way in to the next town, where I was promptly arrested. This was a brand new level 1 character (a chaotic evil human mage, that I was trying to model after Raistlin). I had not even had any encounters with him yet. Why was I arrested?
I forgot to tell the DM that I put on my robes before entering the town. Thus, the DM took it to mean that I had not gotten dressed, and I was arrested for walking around naked.
That is probably too strict a guideline for the casual player, but the point is valid. All decisions within the game should have real consequences that the player can understand. The more control you give to the players over the environment, the more fun it is for them.
I eventually had to bribe the guard with various valuable spell components, since I didn't have any money, and basically start over from scratch.
And I never forgot to mention that I put on my clothes again. Good Times!
Noyou Aug 22nd 2010 4:03PM
That's awesome you enjoyed your table-top gaming experience. To me, that is detail oriented overkill. I also played face to face D&D back in the day. That kind of communication sounds tedious and monotonous but I see where it can lead to a more richer gaming environment.
"All decisions within the game should have real consequences that the player can understand." - you mean like vote kick for trade? :)
Bob D Aug 22nd 2010 3:57PM
"There is nothing one player can achieve that another player cannot also relatively easily achieve."
OK, and with that deliberate declaration of ignorance, my only option is to make a lame attempt at flaming the author, as I lack the will to read the rest of the article.
Saphieria Aug 22nd 2010 3:57PM
Yea, this topic of discussion is dead. Player to Player interaction is fine as it is, spending too much time like the OP would prefer is not fun at all.
There is a reason Blizzard moved away from what they had originally. Now delete this topic.
tomorsc Aug 22nd 2010 3:58PM
Somebody made the comment that WoW caters to the "minority" of their players by designing it for the more causal players.
I dont know what alien planet you have been visiting for the last 2-3 years but gaming in general has been moving more the the casual gamer market for some time now. Companies like Blizzard and Nintendo just happen to be the forerunners in this race.
It used to be that most gamers were hardcore gamers and there were a few casual gamers that got lol'd out of the game. Now there are way more causal gamers that laugh at the hardcore gamers and think they are dinosaurs hanging onto the past.
I am a casualy dedicated player; meaning I log onto WoW daily, farm, craft, and raid (currently 11/12 on ICC and have not been raiding for almost 3 months due to computer issues) but if I dont take down LK on hardmode I could care less.
I dont want the hardcore crowd to go away because they drive innovation to a large extent. But if you dont have and embrace the casual then things like the UI and crafting options woudl never get better because the hardcore crowd would deal with it and pretend they are happy.
It takes both kinds ( castual and hardcore) to make a game, but to say that the casual gamers are a minority is a falicy based on biased opinion. The casual gamers are here to stay and rather than fight them, its better to embrace them and work with them....
omedon666 Aug 22nd 2010 3:58PM
Also, please remember:
http://www.wow.com/2010/08/20/drama-mamas-the-case-of-the-friendly-hermit/
More interaction isn't for everyone. Best to "put it out there" and let those that want it go get it, and those that don't abstain if that's not their thing.