Officers' Quarters: March of the freeloaders
by Scott Andrews 
Aug 23rd 2010 at 2:00PM
Guild perks are coming, and with them a big change in the way guilds are perceived. In the past, some players shunned guilds for one reason or another. Maybe they didn't want to bother with the social aspect of the game. Maybe they had a bad experience with a guild and never had the urge to find a new one. Maybe, like the writer of this week's email, they felt like they wouldn't be able to contribute enough.
Hi,
I wanted to suggest a topic or at least get your opinion on something.
It seems like the guild rewards in Cataclysm are pretty much irresistible. Even though I'm a long-time guildless player (because of my completely unpredictable playtime, my last attempt at being a guildie was in Asheron's Call 2, if that means anything to you ...). I'm going to be looking for a guild to join because I want to have a shot at some of that good stuff.
Of course that's not a good reason to join a guild from the guild's perspective, but I bet I'm not the only one thinking this way. I'm not looking to get a free ride; I'm excited about helping out with guild achievements and advancement. I just can't be a part of a regular raiding guild because of my freelance RL. But a purely casual guild won't have the horsepower to get the best achievements.
How should I go about approaching a guild without sounding like a freeloader? How should guilds approach this transition? Am I a parasite or a potentially valuable asset?
I think it's an interesting topic from a number of different perspectives, and I know it's on a lot of player's minds.
Thanks,
Whig
Bladefist
I agree that the perks (as they currently exist in the beta) are good enough -- particularly the second set I reviewed -- to make joining advanced guilds extremely desirable for the average player. It's pretty difficult to ignore less durability damage, more frequent trade skill-ups and hearthing, getting more items while gathering, and gaining more heroism and honor points. All of these perks benefit the solo player.
This is both good and bad. It's good that belonging to a guild will come with rewards for those who enjoy the guild experience. On the other hand, it's bad that players who have no business belonging to a guild will suddenly have such convincing reasons to join.
This is an important topic for both nonofficer players and officers. Let's break it down by role. This week, I'll provide advice for the guildless player looking to join a guild without becoming a burden. Next week, I'll talk about how officers can filter out the freeloaders and deal with the ones who get past your screening.
How not to freeload
I really can't blame players like you, Whig. If I weren't in a guild, I'd certainly consider Cataclysm as the time to join one.
The first step toward not being a freeloader is to find the right guild. With your schedule, you don't want to join a guild that has attendance requirements for scheduled activities. Likewise, you probably don't want to join a close-knit guild where frequent absences and an unpredictable schedule may lead to friction.
The best type of guild for you would be a large, social guild where people are frequently logging on and off. In this type of guild, you can fly under the radar. As long as you aren't actively causing problems by being a jerk in guild chat or ninja looting, you should fit in just fine.
Guilds like this usually don't expect any specific contributions from their members. Guild activities may happen spontaneously and the invites may go out to anyone who happens to be around at that time. If you're online, you can feel free to jump in to a spur-of-the-moment raid or dungeon group. As long as you know how to play your class, doing so makes you an asset, rather than a parasite.
Many social guilds thrive by having a large, diverse population. Players stay because the people are friendly and there are always other members around who are willing to engage in activities. You don't have to join any guild groups if you don't want to, but at a bare minimum, you should at least be approachable when you're online.
If you never talk in guild chat and ignore everyone, eventually people will catch on to that and you'll become the "weird, quiet guy." Nobody likes the weird, quiet guy. That player makes other people uncomfortable. You don't have to be the life of the party every time you log in, but chiming in with a comment now and then during a g-chat conversation can help people to feel more at ease with your presence on the roster.
Aside from that, you won't have any real obligations to the average social guild. Just remember that the guild has no obligations toward you, either. Don't demand a raid slot or pout when you aren't invited to a dungeon group or arena team. Keep your hands off the more valuable items in the guild bank unless you're frequently raiding, competing in rated battlegrounds or other meaningful guild activities (or, obviously, unless you're contributing items to the bank in return).
Also -- and I can't stress this enough -- buy an authenticator for your account. Hacked accounts can rob entire guild banks regardless of their characters' UI-determined access. Restoring stolen items is a huge hassle for officers. Causing a breach in security is one way to draw a whole boatload of unwanted attention on yourself.
The second you cause drama or problems, or you pillage the bank for expensive items to help you solo dailies, you've crossed over into the parasite role. If this is your plan, stay away from guilds. You'll create a bad name for yourself, and pretty soon no guild will want you in their community.
It's true that a large, social guild may not be lighting up the progression charts. However, even with a 20-player cap on guild experience gains, such guilds are actually more likely to have 20 players who are going crazy questing, running dungeons and PvP'ing. With the sheer manpower they can exert, these guilds will level up quickly -- and that's what you're after, right?
Getting the invite
Before you apply to a guild, read over their policies and their "charter"/mission statement/philosophy so you know what you're getting yourself into. Make sure the guild is a good fit for you personally, and then express that in your application.
Fill out the application thoughtfully and completely.
It sounds to me, Whig, that you're interested in more than just the perks. You also want to help. If that attitude doesn't come across, a discriminating guild won't invite you.
Be completely honest about your situation. Don't kindle false expectations that you'll be a key member of their raiding roster. Be frank about why you haven't belonged to any guilds in WoW so far. Officers appreciate honesty from new recruits. Along those lines, only apply to one guild at a time.
It always helps, also, if you run a few dungeons with members of a guild before you app. If you're a solid, friendly player, those people may chime in to support your bid for membership. The recommendation of a current member carries a lot of weight when officers are considering applicants.
It's not always easy to get into such groups these days with the dungeon finder. Do a /who search for people in the guild hanging out in Dalaran. Whisper one of them. Say you're thinking about applying to the guild and you'd like to get to know the players a bit by grouping up for a dungeon or two. If you have a tanking or healing spec to offer them, you're more likely to be received with enthusiasm.
Don't get frustrated if the first player you whisper isn't interested. You can ask that player to forward your offer along in guild chat, or you can whisper someone else. If the guild is getting ready for a raid, there may not be many people available for other things, so try again some other time.
Chatting with an officer prior to submitting an application can also be helpful. Ask questions about policies to get a clear picture of the guild's culture. You can even ask the officer point-blank if a player like yourself would be welcome in the guild. At worst, the officer will say no and you've saved yourself some time. At best, that officer will respect your proactive approach and recommend an invite.
Whig, many players with your limitations belong to guilds. The key is to find the right guild for you and to be up front about your situation from the beginning. Good luck!
/salute
Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas and suggestions at scott@wow.com. You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters! Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Peter Aug 23rd 2010 2:13PM
I really don't see the negatives of allowing leeches into the guild. You can easily restrict your guildbank, so the only thing you have to worry about is the player doing something terrible in groups that brings shame to your guild.
In even mid-size guilds, the way things look now, even solo players will be adding to the guild's leveling speed. The 'cap' is so high that only really huge guilds will have some players contributions not count.
1. Invite the solo player (leeches).
2. Set your guildbank appropriately
3. Let the player know that they get guild perks, and the only thing you ask is they don't cause drama while in outside groups that could harm your guilds reputation.
It's really a no lose situation for everyone.
Hahahaha Aug 23rd 2010 2:38PM
Let me give you and analogy: You need to do a project (school OR work), and you already have more team members than you would need to finish the assignment. Suddenly a loner gets assigned to your team because well he couldn’t find any other group. On successful completion of your project your team will all be rewarded equally (same grade for all OR same salary hike/bonus). The question then is, would you be OK to just let the loner reap rewards (without doing anything at all) that has been achieved by your hard work?
Dril Aug 23rd 2010 2:49PM
The problem with your analogy is that it doesn't work like that. Your situation describes one where if an individual won, he received 100% of a prize; if three people in a group won they each receive 33% of the prize. In the guild situation, everyone receives 100% percent regardless of contribution, and even then they have to work to exalted to get the most rewards, so everyone has to contribute somehow.
Scunosi Aug 23rd 2010 2:50PM
I tried to use that argument once Haha for something like raiding or instances I don't know, but I was told "WoW isn't a job, it's a game" every time. =/
It may be a game, but if people don't take their social impact seriously it all devolves to just name calling and ninjaing everywhere you turn. Carry your weight or run solo, honestly, and that's coming from someone who hasn't raided in weeks now.
Hahahaha Aug 23rd 2010 3:10PM
@Drill
Are you sure you read my comment right? I dont think I talked about division of reward based on the number of people in a team.
Now this is my opinion and I could be extremely wrong (if there is a guild that falls in the first category and wouldn't mind leeches joining them, plz publish your name here for my benefit :D)
Category 1: Teams that always go for A+. Believe me they won't at all go along with a leech amongst them. These are the guilds that would open up every guild perk as fast as they can.
Category 2: Teams that hovers around B to C. Wouldn't mind having a leech amongst them.
Category 3: Teams that get D or below. Wouldn't care if they had a leech amongst them.
Bapo Aug 23rd 2010 5:26PM
Here's the thing though. The only way he wouldn't be contributing to the guild, is if he joined, and then stayed logged off for X amount of time. If he's questing, he's still getting guild exp. And if he does get into a huge social guild, he'll be perfectly fine. I wouldn't really call him a leech or parasite.
Hahahaha Aug 23rd 2010 10:07PM
"I just can't be a part of a regular raiding guild because of my freelance RL. But a purely casual guild won't have the horsepower to get the best achievements."
Note: I assume by "best achievements" he means best perks.
Guild xp is not something that would be a huge concern. Some of the guild perks would require people going out of their normal course to open them. These are the things I don't think we would wanna "share". Extra gold, less durability damage, more out of flasks and shit is all good but that's not everything from the looks of it. It's the other stuff (like dark phoenix for eg) that these guilds would be unwilling to give to anyone. I know it would require them to get exalted and stuff but still...
Didaxical Aug 24th 2010 10:01AM
"But a purely casual guild won't have the horsepower to get the best achievements."
This statement really bothered me. I have no problem with the writer joining a guild that matches his playstyle, but joining a guild that will be unlocking "the best" guild vendor items through achievements that he has no intention of participating in is purely parasitic.
Join a casual guild. Help them gain guild experience while getting exalted. Don't expect caviar if you can only afford ramen.
P.anda Aug 23rd 2010 2:16PM
I'm not sure how I feel about these guild perks honestly. I'm currently in a small guild with some really good friends, there are like 5 of us total at most, but we get most of our 25 man raiding done with raiding "guild" of sorts. There are maybe 10 people from the "main" guild and several others from different guilds. There are never 20/25 people from the guild going to the raid. Many reasons factor into not having everyone in the guild such as other people's rl friends who keep to the same guild and not everyone who raids together really get along with each other all the time.
This doesn't bode too well for a raiding community such as Leftovers either =/
Josin Aug 23rd 2010 2:31PM
Not to be a jerk, but 5 people isn't even really a guild.
There's a reason they require you to have 10 people to start one. You're a few people who share a communal bank.
I don't understand why you don't group up with the other "guilds" you regularly raid with and actually form a real guild. You all seem to like each other, and want to game together. Seems like a bit of a no-brainer. And it'll get you guys to where you want to be on perks and such.
I really don't understand people opt-ing out of perks.
omedon666 Aug 23rd 2010 2:44PM
Josin:
If those five people can co-ordinate 4 of them to be online at once, they will be able to jump start their leveling via 5-man content, the first wave of (datamined) guild achievements having centered around it.
My guild isn't much bigger, and we have every intention to do just that, and are looking forward to it!
The "5-man demographic" is very real, and very supported come cataclysm.
Related blog post: "working the system" as a "5-man demographic" guild!
http://omedon666.livejournal.com/72374.html
Josin Aug 23rd 2010 3:45PM
Unless they're changing the guild framework to only require five people to start one, I'm standing by my opinion. Beyond that, you don't have to like everyone in your guild. Hell, some folks I can't stand. That just means when we're outside of a raid, I don't do anything with them. But come raid time, we're a guild, we're focused, and we work together towards a common goal.
That's what a guild is about. That, and having 10 people. ;)
omedon666 Aug 23rd 2010 3:57PM
The "10 accounts" point is very valid, and one I've impressed on my own guild before. I actually speculated early on that the model of the GXP system would "call out" the guilds formed by a dude with a charter and a bunch of gold so he could have a bank all to himself when he was all done. To a lesser extent, I thought the same "calling out" would happen to guilds that didn't actively sport at least 10 people online. Thankfully, they then let 5-mans (at 4/5 no less) into the grind, and I laid off the panic about recruiting, since we can pretty easily assemble four people with very short notice, and not have to let strangers into our family just for the sake of GXP.
But yes, I firmly agree with your idea that regularly and actively sporting the number of accounts needed to start a guild is a good indicator of "supported guild" come cataclysm. We fully acknowledge that we fall very sightly below that line, and are "working the system" to our advantage as a result. :)
Cheb Aug 23rd 2010 4:07PM
I believe in the beta it only takes 5 people to make a guild. Whether this is simply to make starting a guild in beta easier or a permanent change, I'm not sure.
omedon666 Aug 23rd 2010 4:11PM
Good point Cheb, I was going to mention that, but you saved me the typing. I personally hope it's a permanent change, given 5-man is "viable grind territory" for GXP.
P.anda Aug 23rd 2010 4:16PM
The thing is the amount of "extra friends" that comes out of this. I really don't like the idea of forcing people into the guild. It isn't always about people wanting to join and or not liking them. Yes there are quite people who don't like each other and don't talk/party/interact outside of raid.
I feel that guilds are more about people who you want to be associated with and more family style I suppose. But lots of people may have RL friends/close friends outside the raid who don't raid/don't know anyone in the "main" raiding guild. I'd hate to have to uproot them from their friends. Yes there are channels they could share between friends, but it is a different feeling sharing a channel with friends and actually being in a guild together.
As such other then Leftovers (Silver hand), I'm sure there are many other raids/guilds who don't have 8/10 or 20/25 out of the guild there.
Going to be mainly getting points from the 4/5 and questing like Omen has mentioned.
In the end I guess even though I do enjoy raiding and the guild perks sound really nice, I don't think joining a raiding guild would be worth having to leave my friends behind.
Sciarc Aug 23rd 2010 9:36PM
I have similar reservations about guild perks as you P.anda, and a similar guild/raiding situation as well. I've decided that I'm not going to let the guild perk system have any influence on what guild I'm in or who I choose to play with. Guild perks are just that, perks. Nothing mandatory, and nothing that will measurably increase my enjoyment of the game.
I'll stick with my tiny guild of friends, which in fact does measurably increase my enjoyment of the game. We'll unlock the guild perks at our own pace and that's fine with me.
Noyou Aug 23rd 2010 2:19PM
Whig,
I don't see a problem at all with your attitude and plan to be in a guild come cata. Unless you are talking the talk and not willing to walk the walk. I do have a bit of a red flag because you seem to want the benefits from a raiding guild without actual raiding. That's cool if they have spots for people who are hunter/gatherers/craftsmen. To my best knowledge many raiding guilds only have 80s (soon to be 85s) in them so not sure where you would be helping out there. Anyways- best of luck to you in your search for a guild.
omedon666 Aug 23rd 2010 2:20PM
This ties in very nicely to a response I put into a drama mamas article recently, which became a blog post of its own (complete with plug for said drama mamas article):
http://omedon666.livejournal.com/72627.html
Simply stated, respect their time AND YOURS by joining a guild worth your time, and compatible with your needs and desires. Guild perks, specifically guild rep rewards, are not a short term undertaking to acquire, so don't trap yourself somewhere you won't want to be.
Furthermore, to be blunt, the guild perks are not for everyone. As this O.Q. article infers indirectly, one might not end up in a guild when its all said and done, particularly if it is the god's honest truth that you just want the perks, and don't care about the guild. I credit the writer of this week's O.Q. letter with a desire to help, that's awesome, but that won't be everyone. The guild perks are meant to incentivize accountability and communal pride. If you're not into those things... well... you're not supposed to have guild perks, and no guild worth its salt will take someone looking not to show that pride and be accountable, IE a parasite. Those are supposed to get the hint, and not guild.
In short, the parasites are not supposed to be guilding. They're supposed to adapt (IE: Become less parasitic), suck up the lack of perks, or leave. Because they're parasites, in more ways than one, the guild perks are meant to tell them "these aren't for you, and maybe this isn't your game", it's part of blizzard's effort to clean up the community, and I commend them for it.
Not all unguilded people are parasites to WoW, but many "unguildable" people are. The "unguildable" are the reason "unguilded", once upon a time, was a scarlet letter. Not so much these days where it's just understandable that a guild isn't needed/wanted by everyone that wants to play, and many unguilded people are perfectly fine, guildable people, and they would benefit well from this week's advice. Those that aren't... are supposed to stay unguilded... and get the hint.
This week's letter writer does not sound like a parasite, to a guild, or to WoW! :)
Johnny Aug 23rd 2010 2:20PM
Another fine post, Mr. Andrews. I think the person who wrote in this case, will find that there is almost always an active casual guild willing to accept players with unpredictable schedules. I think he even might find that the guild provides some social aid, aside from the new guild perks. On his worry that he won't be able to have access to the best rewards, if he gets in the right casual guild he will find there will probably be a sector of raiders, pvpers and other avid players helping the guild achieve with those more difficult achievements. In the end, I am not sure whether he can be in a guild that does current top tier raiding or high rating arena or battlegrounds without a more consistent schedule. I might be wrong, I wish him the best anyways.