Scattered Shots: The golden age of pet tanking
Welcome to Scattered Shots, written by Frostheim of Warcraft Hunters Union and the Hunting Party Podcast. Each week, Frostheim uses logic and science (mixed with a few mugs of dwarven stout) to look deep into the hunter class. Got hunter questions? Feel free to email Frostheim.
I have a suspicion that Wrath will go down in the history books as the golden age of pet tanking and extreme soloing. I think that Wrath hit the precise perfect balance for extreme pet antics, whether by design or by accident. We have solo'd from Molten Core to Violet Hold and everything in between (and more). We have used our pet to tank for our raids, from Naxx to Ulduar to TotC, all the way to ICC. Our pets have tanked Marrowgar, Deathwhisper, Gunship and Blood Princes, and our pets have even solo-tanked Sindragosa. We can pet tank Rotface while we kite the slimes.
The beauty and balance of the Wrath pet tanking, however, is that we're generally only able to do it after we're a tier or two of gear beyond the content (or with the ICC raid buff). This way, we aren't taking tank spots away from actual tank classes -- something that would get our pet tanking nerfed in a heartbeat. But these are still impressive feats, challenging feats -- and they are big fun.
While it's too early to say how pet tanking will work out in Cataclysm -- the pet design pass has not yet been done -- I keep getting emails about it, and we have seen enough to do some speculation. Join me after the cut for a look at what made pet tanking work so well in Wrath and what we know about it so far in Cataclysm.
The magic ingredient of pet tanking
In Wrath, we have a lot of tools to make pet tanking possible -- BM hunter talents, tenacity pets and their talent tree, threat redirection, glyphs and our general stunning good looks. But there is only one thing without which we couldn't pet tank at all, the magical stuff that dreams are made of: resilience.
Resilience is the magical stat that allows our pets to become crit-immune. Without that -- if our pets could get crit by bosses -- we could not pet tank raid bosses. We currently need 5.6 percent crit reduction to become crit-immune. Our pet talent, Grace of the Mantis, gives us 4 percent crit reduction, and the only way we can get that extra 1.6 percent is by wearing 132 resilience rating worth of gear. While the damage reduction portion of resilience does not work in PvE, the crit reduction part does.
Or at least it does in Wrath. Come Cataclysm, we will no longer be able lower our pet's chance to be crit by wearing resilience gear. In fact, nothing on gear will make you crit-immune in Cataclysm; the tank classes get their crit immunity through talents or their stance/form/thingy.
Unless we have a new way to make our pets crit-immune, that could be the fatal blow to pet tanking right there.
Pet healing
Pet healing is more of an extreme soloing thing than a pet tanking thing, but the two are closely related. It is our pet's great tanking abilities, after all, that makes most extreme soloing possible. In Wrath, our extreme soloing options were greatly widened because of the Glyph of Mending, which boosted the effectiveness of our Mend Pet by 40 percent. Combined with other hunter and pet talents, our Mend Pet could do over 2k healing per tick. It was almost like having a single healer HoT for our pet!
In Cataclysm, we can only assume that our Mend Pet will be significantly stronger by level 85 than it is now. But based on what we're seeing currently in the beta at level 83, it is not scaling on pace with health and damage. Health is much higher in Cataclysm -- both ours and our pet's -- and it is higher exponentially, not linearly. But our Mend Pet does not seem to be scaling as fast as health and damage are.
What we need to see is another Mend Pet boost, the way that the Glyph of Mending boosted it. Personally, I think that the logical way to handle this is by allowing Mend Pet ticks to crit. After all, just about every other HoT in the game can now crit on its ticks; why not ours?
This is an issue that goes beyond just extreme soloing. In Cataclysm, our pets are less likely than ever to get any heals from the healers, since mana management is now important. However, our Mend Pet is rarely enough healing to keep our pet from dying to incidental DoTs that they seem to pick up all over the place in Cataclysm 5-mans.
Pet scaling in Cataclysm
We know that the way our pets scale with our stats will change in Cataclysm. We assume that they will scale with all of our stats (including crit, haste and smoldering good looks) only because this was something promised to us long, long ago, and it makes logical sense. While we won't know how pet scaling is going to work for certain until the pet design pass happens, we did get a preview of what Blizzard is thinking.
Pet scaling is getting a massive overhaul at the moment. For starters, we still intend for pets to scale with all of the master's stats for things like hit, haste and crit. For the big stats, our current plan is something like this:
Ferocity (damage) -- 50% of master's AP, 40% health, 50% armor
Tenacity (tanking) -- 35% of master's AP, 50% health, 70% armor
Cunning (utility) -- 40% of master's AP, 40% health, 60% armor
Warlock pets will be getting a similar pass. In general, we want pet dps to be 20-30% of player dps. Note that this is a lot lower than current BM and Demo lock numbers. Pet damage as BM will still be higher than Marks or Survival though, and we want BM to be competitive overall with Marks and Survival. (Ditto for locks.)
Ferocity (damage) -- 50% of master's AP, 40% health, 50% armor
Tenacity (tanking) -- 35% of master's AP, 50% health, 70% armor
Cunning (utility) -- 40% of master's AP, 40% health, 60% armor
Warlock pets will be getting a similar pass. In general, we want pet dps to be 20-30% of player dps. Note that this is a lot lower than current BM and Demo lock numbers. Pet damage as BM will still be higher than Marks or Survival though, and we want BM to be competitive overall with Marks and Survival. (Ditto for locks.)
For reference, pets currently inherit the following:
- 45% of hunter stamina
- 45% of hunter armor
- 22% of hunter attack power
Out of the patch 4.0 gate, we can expect our tenacity pets to get a bit more stamina from us and a heck of a lot more armor! However, that stamina increase is only true if out pets still have their Wild Hunt talent after the pet design pass. With the big jump in stamina in Cataclysm, it seems likely that we'll end up with pets with comparatively more health than before.
On the downside, the loss of AP means that our tenacity pets -- which already have big threat problems -- will have a harder time than ever holding aggro. This is somewhat modified by the new Kill Command, an attack we can use but that is made by our pet and the threat of which goes to the pet.
In general, however, this means that our ferocity pets are still going to be better at holding aggro than our tank pets unless they get more aggro-generating or aggro-increasing abilities.
One thing that intrigues me is something not mentioned in this blue post, going back to this concept that our pets should inherit all of our stats and not just sta/armor/AP/resistances. The lack of scaling with all stats gave BM big scaling issues as they geared up in Wrath, and everything we've heard (like how pets no longer receive raid buff because they scale correctly) indicates that our pets will indeed scale with everything.
If that's true, will they also scale with our dodge and parry ratings? Is it possible that for pet tanking we might put together a set of high stamina gear gemmed and enchanted for avoidance to give our pets that extra avoidance? I hope so, because that would be very interesting -- and in my opinion, fun!
Loss of many BM talents
One of the big casualties of the revamping of the talent trees was the loss of nearly all of the pet tanking/extreme soloing talents from the BM tree. We lost Endurance Training, but perhaps that is more than compensated by the larger health pools in Cataclysm. We lost Thick Hide, but then our pets are inheriting far more of our armor as a base scaling.
We also lost Catlike Reflexes, which was a huge talent for pet tanking -- nearly 10 percent damage reduction, essentially. In addition, we lost a lot of talents that increase our pet damage. This is in line with Blizzard's wanting pet damage to be only 20 to 30 percent of the hunter's total DPS, but that is going to further hurt our pet's ability to hold aggro.
Pet talents: the determining factor
Ultimately, what Blizzard does with our pet talent tree redesign is probably going to determine the viability of pet tanking in Cataclysm. Will Grace of the Mantis be changed to let our pet become crit-immune? Will Wild Hunt still give us increased scaling? Will our tenacity pets have a better way to boost their threat, perhaps a new talent that boosts the threat of all attacks?
I'd really like to see our tanking tree have more, you know, tanking talents in it. Our tank pets have the same needs as tanks: threat increase, avoidance, mitigation, health and maybe cooldowns -- less of everything than actual tanks do, of course, but at least crit-immunity. Whether that happens through talents, glyphs or gear, I don't care. As long as our pets can be crit-immune, we can work around any other shortcomings.
It would also be nice to see Great Resistance either buffed to be worthwhile or done away with.
The end of an age ... or the beginning?
Wrath brought us the best pet tanking opportunities we've ever had and balanced them beautifully against player tanks. Pet tanking raid bosses wasn't easy -- it required special gear sets, often with special gemming and enchanting, very specific hunter and pet builds, and the right kind of pet -- and it still wasn't nearly as good as a player tank. But with thought and skill, it was possible.
Based on the state of the Cataclysm beta right now, it does not look like we'll be able to pet tank after Wrath is gone. But ... we've still got the pet design pass ahead of us, which encompasses scaling, pet abilities and talent tree redesign. Everything we need to pet tank could very easily be right there.
Right now, we're standing on the pet tanking precipice. We could stay where we are, on top of the world in the golden age of pet tanking -- or just as easily, we could fall off and plummet into obscurity and the ale-soaked tales of old-timers who go on about how great it was back in their day. Only time and the benevolence of Ghostcrawler will tell.
Scattered Shots is dedicated to helping you learn everything it takes to be a hunter. See the Scattered Shots Resource Guide for a full listing of vital and entertaining hunter guides, including how to improve your heroic DPS, understand the impact of skill vs. gear, and getting started with Beast Mastery 101 and Marksman 101.
Filed under: Hunter, (Hunter) Scattered Shots






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
helsabot Aug 26th 2010 11:01AM
fantastic article Frost. I hope that with a little work, pet tanking will stay around! It has been a fun adventure the last few weeks to stave off the lull while Cata creeps up.
Jesse Felt Aug 26th 2010 11:18AM
Only thing I could point out is that I don't think many healers are actively healing pets right now. I think most of it comes from the smart heals and what not. Pets count as raid members when it comes to heals like Chain Heal, so they are mainly getting the excess heals. I know that on my shaman I don't even show pet frames because screen real estate is precious to me.
There is certainly some thinking that the smart heals in the game will be less important in the Cata healing model, but I don't think it will negatively affect our pets. Since everone has more HP, including our pets, they can go longer between heals.
Also, there is a very strong chance that mend pet wont get any specific boosts. Blizzard has said that their goal in cata is to scale HP up while maintaining healing output and damage income at a lower level, closer to what it is currently in order to balance healing around keeping the raid alive as opposed to keeping the raid topped off.
With the smoother, less spikey damage coming from raid bosses/mobs healers can still keep people up despite having relatively smaller heals than they do now, simply because the focus will be on keeping people alive, but keeping them topped off wont be as important since everyone will be able to take more damage and there wont be nearly the risk of people just dropping like flies if they aren't topped off RIGHT NAO!!!!!
Now, I do agree that if Blizzard is making a point out of making all DoTs/HoTs crit, then mend pet should crit as well.
Pyromelter Aug 26th 2010 3:28PM
It will be nice to have less spikey damage. Doing marrowgar hardmode scares the crap outta me... you get spiked, get flames under you, and the boss is spinning on your head, you have about 2 seconds to live unless you get massively healed and overhealed, or you're going to be dead (and there is nothing you can do to save yourself). Will be happy to see the end of that kind of damage taking, even if it means taking more damage overall in other parts of boss fights.
mark Aug 26th 2010 7:46PM
sorry for hijacking this on a reply - but as a tank it bugs me
its not what we have that matters - its what we dont have
"We also lost Catlike Reflexes, which was a huge talent for pet tanking -- nearly 10 percent damage reduction, essentially."
NO NO NO
as a bear tank i have 50% dodge atm - a pets would probably be less - but you could gear for it
going 50-60% dodge (rounding like you did) isnt a 10% drop
its going 50%-40% taken - its a 20% drop
Frostheim Aug 26th 2010 8:20PM
@Mark I'm not sure exactly what you're saying... I'm just saying that 10% avoidance will, on average, reduce the total damage your pet takes by about 10%. You'll get hit 10% less often.
Do you disagree?
syrant Aug 27th 2010 7:10AM
Mark's right in saying that 10% dodge is more than 10% damage reduction. How big a damage reduction depends on the dodge/avoidance that your start out with (and technically your armor too) -- the benefits of stacking avoidance (not including diminishing returns) is similar to stacking ArP for dps classes. In any case, it's a big loss to pet tanking.
Jesse Felt Aug 26th 2010 11:25AM
I feel as though I should re-qualify one thing.... I said relatively smaller heals. By that I mean that the heals themselves will hit for more in cata, but relative to the cata health pools they will be smaller compared to Wrath. For example I can heal the average clothie from almost dead to full with a single Healing Wave crit. In cata my HW will land for MORE healing than in Wrath, but because that clothie now has 60k HP I wont be able to take them from death's door to right as rain in one cast.
Hulder Aug 26th 2010 11:30AM
Took me a good five minutes to read past the tantalising prospect of seeing Frost "after class"....
.... -okay, moving on.
To me it sounds a bit like all specs will be a lot more like BM than they are now. Or put differently, that BM will lose some of its defining characteristics versus the other two specs (f.e. through increased pet damage for SV and MM). I'm not saying this is a bad thing, I'm only wondering if this is being balanced out, seeing as Blizzard's goal is to make each talent tree very recognisable and distinct.
Jay Aug 26th 2010 12:11PM
With the loss of Volley, solo is already gonna go slower, with smaller pulls the loss of pet healing might not be a big problem in older runs, but if I can't solo pos by lvl 82 I'm hopping on the qq train
zcubed Aug 26th 2010 2:07PM
I would like to see a commentary article on the loss of volley. Feels like hunters lost their best AOE tool.
thebitterfig Aug 26th 2010 2:33PM
It might seem like hunters are loosing their best AoE tool, but between trap launching and whatever changes they might make to Multishot, it might still be pretty decent in the end. Hunter AoE is going to change, clearly, and while I wish they'd specifically tailored volley to SV, Multishot to MM, and added an AoE Kill Command for BM (you'd still only use one due to Focus costs), I'll wait to see the new scheme entirely in place before I fully judge.
Pyromelter Aug 26th 2010 3:34PM
I feel like they are going to buff the AoE damage of multishot but make it unusable on single target. I definitely see at least the cooldown on multishot being lowered.
Frostheim Aug 26th 2010 3:42PM
It's a bit premature to do a big article on the loss of volley. Ghostcrawler has stepped in to tell us that they will be changing multi-shot so that it and explosive trap can server our aoe needs (theoretically meaning mult-shot might actually become, you know, an aoe).
Until we know what their volley replacement is, can't really say whether it's a good move or not.
Note also multi-shot has no cooldown in the beta. The problem is even if it hits 3 targets it does less damage than our main shot or even kill command.
Fluzzarn Aug 26th 2010 3:46PM
@zcubed
http://www.warcrafthuntersunion.com/2010/08/confirmation-of-volley-removal/
also Frost are you still lamenting over the dead zone bait and switch?
clok1966 Aug 26th 2010 2:31PM
I for one will be sad to see it go. I love to play with others but with the simple (and amazing) LFG tool nowdays most players are candy A55's and think anything over 10 minutes to make an entire run is to long. Nobody remebers whipeing non stop in "normal" instance runs as we all didnt have heirlooms or 95% blue or purple items. I love to group but hate the whiney attuitude of people who cant play at anything less then a frantic pace. My solo Hunter BM was my kick back and enjoy toon. BM are considered losers nowdays we do less DPS then the other specs, really not that much less (but in the current spreedsheet cookie cutter build for every class WoW has become a few less DPS makes you a waste of group space) if you know how to play.
So ya, I will miss it.. well maybe not, I'm old shcool, a "GAME' is only fun if you enjoy it.. And I enjoy my pets and playing BM, they may not tank as well, but hell, as long as I'm having fun...
BUT REMOVING VOLLEY!!!! i say we get a linch mob going! WHo's with me?
thebitterfig Aug 26th 2010 2:39PM
When it comes to Mend Pet, I think it needs a total scaling buff. Ticks which crit? Check. Hasted ticks? Check. Scaling with AP? Check. It's utterly insane that in Live, a full 277 epic hunter's Mend Pet does no more than a fresh 80 in all greens. Nerf the base healing if need be so that the eventual scaling brings it where it needs to be, but damnation it had better scale.
As to pet tanking, at least the threat issue is probably going to get better. With Kill Command shifting some of a hunter's threat to the pet innately, it seems probable that hunter pets will be able to hold aggro better than before.
Paux Aug 26th 2010 3:09PM
Okay. Trampled by Turtles. BADASS.
Ahoni Aug 26th 2010 3:09PM
I wouldn't expect pet tanking a raid boss to survive. Tanking a 5-man. Sure. Heroics, possibly. Raids, no.
Pet tanking is great, and I have been in more than a few 5-mans where either the tank DC'd or died and pets have kept the run going. The first week of Wrath, we were running our first AN and our tank had to leave. A hunter and a felguard lock tanked everything until the last boss and kept the run going. To me, it would be a shame if that type of thing were removed.
Kheldul Aug 26th 2010 3:19PM
Pet-tanking is incredibly fun.
Making it no longer possible would make the game less fun.
zubbiefish Aug 26th 2010 3:52PM
For you.